Indian Soldiers Die Following Standoff with Chinese Forces

[Novus America]

The PRC arbitrarily arrests foreigners without trial to hold them hostage in political disputes.
Even kidnaps people in foreign countries for simply criticizing the PRC.
Heard of Gui Minhai?

The trial of espionage cases does not need to be made public.There is no obligation to inform other countries.
As for drug dealers, the relevant trial records are open to the public. Please look for it yourself.

Simply criticizing the PRC regime is “espionage”. Anything can be “espionage” when there is no due process and no independent courts or juries.

Anyways as I said this has gone off topic. India and the US obviously are smart to side with each other here. For the India the PRC is killing Indian soldiers.
Trying to seize Indian territory.

The US is not.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

The trial of espionage cases does not need to be made public.There is no obligation to inform other countries.
As for drug dealers, the relevant trial records are open to the public. Please look for it yourself.

Simply criticizing the PRC regime is “espionage”. Anything can be “espionage” when there is no due process and no independent courts or juries.

Anyways as I said this has gone off topic. India and the US obviously are smart to side with each other here. For the India the PRC is killing Indian soldiers.
Trying to seize Indian territory.

The US is not.

Espionage cases don't need to be made public.Of course, you can continue to express dissatisfaction to it.

[Genivaria]

Simply criticizing the PRC regime is “espionage”. Anything can be “espionage” when there is no due process and no independent courts or juries.

Anyways as I said this has gone off topic. India and the US obviously are smart to side with each other here. For the India the PRC is killing Indian soldiers.
Trying to seize Indian territory.

The US is not.

Espionage cases don't need to be made public.Of course, you can continue to express dissatisfaction to it.

It reeks of dishonesty when you simply dismiss all dissenters as 'espionage'.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Espionage cases don't need to be made public.Of course, you can continue to express dissatisfaction to it.

It reeks of dishonesty when you simply dismiss all dissenters as 'espionage'.

Believe it or not is your problem. You've never believed anything a CCP says, have you?

[Atheris]

Simply criticizing the PRC regime is “espionage”. Anything can be “espionage” when there is no due process and no independent courts or juries.

Anyways as I said this has gone off topic. India and the US obviously are smart to side with each other here. For the India the PRC is killing Indian soldiers.
Trying to seize Indian territory.

The US is not.

Espionage cases don't need to be made public.Of course, you can continue to express dissatisfaction to it.

"all dissenters are espionage"

This is absolutely not what espionage means. People can be mad at the PRC government for denying them basic human rights.

[Genivaria]

It reeks of dishonesty when you simply dismiss all dissenters as 'espionage'.

Believe it or not is your problem. You've never believed anything a CCP says, have you?

I don't take apologists of totalitarianism seriously no.
And really if 'Believe it or not is your problem' is the best defense a PRC apologist can come up with then it's no wonder that the PRC is being treated like the scum they are.

[Novus America]

Simply criticizing the PRC regime is “espionage”. Anything can be “espionage” when there is no due process and no independent courts or juries.

Anyways as I said this has gone off topic. India and the US obviously are smart to side with each other here. For the India the PRC is killing Indian soldiers.
Trying to seize Indian territory.

The US is not.

Espionage cases don't need to be made public.Of course, you can continue to express dissatisfaction to it.

Hard to express dissatisfaction when the secret police can disappear you without trial, but agin the topic is India. Obviously India is going to oppose the PRC trying to seize Indian territory and killing Indian troops.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Espionage cases don't need to be made public.Of course, you can continue to express dissatisfaction to it.

Hard to express dissatisfaction when the secret police can disappear you without trial, but agin the topic is India. Obviously India is going to oppose the PRC trying to seize Indian territory and killing Indian troops.

They opposed China from the beginning because the British gave them Tibet on the map.It's just that this time someone died because it happened at night.

[Novus America]

Hard to express dissatisfaction when the secret police can disappear you without trial, but agin the topic is India. Obviously India is going to oppose the PRC trying to seize Indian territory and killing Indian troops.

They opposed China from the beginning because the British gave them Tibet on the map.It's just that this time someone died because it happened at night.

Umm India is not claiming control of Tibet.
This was PRC soldiers killing Indian soldiers. That naturally will make India upset.
And the PRC cannot fight India and the US and hope to win.

The PRC made a massive strategic blunder here, pushing India closer to the US and getting PRC tech companies thrown out of India.

The PRC did something fucked up and is paying the price.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

This was PRC soldiers killing Indian soldiers. That naturally will make India upset.

It was a cold weapon fight,and they are soldiers.The soldier killed the soldier in a fight.This is an inherent risk.Indian soldiers also tried to kill Chinese soldiers.
And Modi said in a public statement that the PLA did not cross the border.What do you think of the speech made by the prime minister of India?
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/neither-has-anyone-intruded-into-indian-territory-nor-has-anyone-taken-over-any-post-pm-modi/articleshow/76470868.cms

[Atheris]

Hard to express dissatisfaction when the secret police can disappear you without trial, but agin the topic is India. Obviously India is going to oppose the PRC trying to seize Indian territory and killing Indian troops.

They opposed China from the beginning because the British gave them Tibet on the map.It's just that this time someone died because it happened at night.

The closest British India came to controlling Tibet was Sikkim in 1861.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

They opposed China from the beginning because the British gave them Tibet on the map.It's just that this time someone died because it happened at night.

The closest British India came to controlling Tibet was Sikkim in 1861.

In the winter of 1903, Britain launched the second war of invading Tibet and occupied Lhasa.Later, the Britain proposed McMahon line.But the idea was rejected.India's current territorial claims are based on this line.

[Novus America]

This was PRC soldiers killing Indian soldiers. That naturally will make India upset.

It was a cold weapon fight,and they are soldiers.The soldier killed the soldier in a fight.This is an inherent risk.Indian soldiers also tried to kill Chinese soldiers.
And Modi said in a public statement that the PLA did not cross the border.What do you think of the speech made by the prime minister of India?
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/neither-has-anyone-intruded-into-indian-territory-nor-has-anyone-taken-over-any-post-pm-modi/articleshow/76470868.cms

I think you misunderstand the meaning of that, he is claiming that the PRC did not take any new territory this time. He and nearly everyone on India has been harshly critical of the PRC killing of Indian soldiers.

How did this help the PRC? As it clearly did not, and clearly left the PRC in a worse situation after than before it was a massive blunder by the PRC.

Xi is a madman who is ironically harming the PRC with this sort of insanity.

[Atheris]

The closest British India came to controlling Tibet was Sikkim in 1861.

In the winter of 1903, Britain launched the second war of invading Tibet and occupied Lhasa.Later, the Britain proposed McMahon line.But the idea was rejected.India's current territorial claims are based on this line.

While I was wrong about Britain invading Tibet, I did not know about the 1903 Expedition, you are wrong that the McMahon Line claims any part of Tibet. The McMahon Line only includes Arunachal Pradesh, or Aksai Chin, which is not a part of Tibet.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

In the winter of 1903, Britain launched the second war of invading Tibet and occupied Lhasa.Later, the Britain proposed McMahon line.But the idea was rejected.India's current territorial claims are based on this line.

While I was wrong about Britain invading Tibet, I did not know about the 1903 Expedition, you are wrong that the McMahon Line claims any part of Tibet. The McMahon Line only includes Arunachal Pradesh, or Aksai Chin, which is not a part of Tibet.

My account may not be complete.There are three areas of conflict.
Aksai Chin,it's the western part.It's on the border of India, Pakistan and China.It is close to Kashmir and is a transitional zone between the western Qinghai Tibet Plateau and the northern South Asia.The area where the incident occurred.


Arunachal Pradesh,It's the southern part.Or the Chinese and Indian parts of the McMahon line.It's between Bhutan and Myanmar.The plain below is Assam plain. From the plain to the snow capped mountain range is Arunachal Pradesh.The yellow line in the picture is China's claim. China's claim is the dividing line between mountains and plains.India's claim is that the top of the mountain is the dividing line.In 1962, China withdrew from India after defeating India, and Indian troops returned and occupied the area.


There are also some smaller parts in the middle part.I don't have detailed information about its source.Geographically, these places obviously belong to Tibet area.

[The Hindustani State]

Modi visited the frontline today and gave a speech

[Atheris]

While I was wrong about Britain invading Tibet, I did not know about the 1903 Expedition, you are wrong that the McMahon Line claims any part of Tibet. The McMahon Line only includes Arunachal Pradesh, or Aksai Chin, which is not a part of Tibet.

My account may not be complete.There are three areas of conflict.
Aksai Chin,it's the western part.It's on the border of India, Pakistan and China.It is close to Kashmir and is a transitional zone between the western Qinghai Tibet Plateau and the northern South Asia.The area where the incident occurred.
-snip-

Arunachal Pradesh,It's the southern part.Or the Chinese and Indian parts of the McMahon line.It's between Bhutan and Myanmar.The plain below is Assam plain. From the plain to the snow capped mountain range is Arunachal Pradesh.The yellow line in the picture is China's claim. China's claim is the dividing line between mountains and plains.India's claim is that the top of the mountain is the dividing line.In 1962, China withdrew from India after defeating India, and Indian troops returned and occupied the area.
-snip-

There are also some smaller parts in the middle part.I don't have detailed information about its source.Geographically, these places obviously belong to Tibet area.

The area has been ruled by China as distinct from Tibet since the Sino-Indian war and was part of India until said war. It was never ruled by any independent Kingdom of Tibet or has been administrated as an area of Tibet. Saying that Aksai Chin/Arunachal Pradesh is part of Tibet is like saying Nova Scotia is part of Maine.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

My account may not be complete.There are three areas of conflict.
Aksai Chin,it's the western part.It's on the border of India, Pakistan and China.It is close to Kashmir and is a transitional zone between the western Qinghai Tibet Plateau and the northern South Asia.The area where the incident occurred.
-snip-

Arunachal Pradesh,It's the southern part.Or the Chinese and Indian parts of the McMahon line.It's between Bhutan and Myanmar.The plain below is Assam plain. From the plain to the snow capped mountain range is Arunachal Pradesh.The yellow line in the picture is China's claim. China's claim is the dividing line between mountains and plains.India's claim is that the top of the mountain is the dividing line.In 1962, China withdrew from India after defeating India, and Indian troops returned and occupied the area.
-snip-

There are also some smaller parts in the middle part.I don't have detailed information about its source.Geographically, these places obviously belong to Tibet area.

The area has been ruled by China as distinct from Tibet since the Sino-Indian war and was part of India until said war. It was never ruled by any independent Kingdom of Tibet or has been administrated as an area of Tibet. Saying that Aksai Chin/Arunachal Pradesh is part of Tibet is like saying Nova Scotia is part of Maine.

In 1964, the Indian army reoccupied the area.In 1972, India changed the name to Arunachal.Tawang city in this area is the hometown of the Sixth Dalai Lama and the holy city of Tibetan.Unfortunately, before the British came, the historical records of this area were only related to Tibet. And India was not a country at that time.

[Federal Republic Of America And The Cari]

The area has been ruled by China as distinct from Tibet since the Sino-Indian war and was part of India until said war. It was never ruled by any independent Kingdom of Tibet or has been administrated as an area of Tibet. Saying that Aksai Chin/Arunachal Pradesh is part of Tibet is like saying Nova Scotia is part of Maine.

In 1964, the Indian army reoccupied the area.In 1972, India changed the name to Arunachal.Tawang city in this area is the hometown of the Sixth Dalai Lama and the holy city of Tibetan.Unfortunately, before the British came, the historical records of this area were only related to Tibet. And India was not a country at that time.

Source?

[Rio Cana]

One thing is for sure, this India vs. China has let loose India's news and information services against China. They are hitting China hard. Latest news (see video below) coming from mostly various Indian sources is that Chinese leaders have said that the Russian port city of Vladivostok belongs to China. I find that news strange since China and Russia signed some time ago a second formal border agreement in which the Russians even had to give China half a river island. But like they say, treaties can be broken. If the Indian news is true, chances are NK. will become very upset. Yes, NK. and China cooperate. But in the end, NK. does not trust China. Neither does SK. Its a Korean thing due to China's historical involvement at times in Korea. The situation in that part of the world could really turn ugly.

Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX5rZVH-9hY

[Novus America]

One thing is for sure, this India vs. China has let loose India's news and information services against China. They are hitting China hard. Latest news (see video below) coming from mostly various Indian sources is that Chinese leaders have said that the Russian port city of Vladivostok belongs to China. I find that news strange since China and Russia signed some time ago a second formal border agreement in which the Russians even had to give China half a river island. But like they say, treaties can be broken. If the Indian news is true, chances are NK. will become very upset. Yes, NK. and China cooperate. But in the end, NK. does not trust China. Neither does SK. Its a Korean thing due to China's historical involvement at times in Korea. The situation in that part of the world could really turn ugly.

Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX5rZVH-9hY

It is probably the case that the PRC viewed the border agreement with Russia as temporary agreement of convenience and will violate it as soon as it becomes convenient to do so.
The PRC does not believe in treaties to be anything more than short term propaganda.

[James_xenoland]

Russia did not help China against India. China is also not interested in against India.That kind of thing exists only in the imagination of the western media.This goal is too obvious to create a confrontation threat between China and India, and hinder China's strategic planning in Central Asia and Southeast Asia.That's why Moody's and China's top management are trying to cool things down.But his statements contradict those of the Indian military, raising questions about whether he can effectively rein in the army.

I.... umm... well.. that's is certainly one hell of a take on things. First off, china doesn't need the "west" to create confrontation between them and India.. chinese imperialist actions, ambitions and naked aggression are doing more than enough of that already! lol Only in the delusional rantings of a ccp apologist, could this ever not be seen as being of china's sole belligerent making.

ccp arrogance and pettiness, not to mention cry-crying.. ("whaa muh land! Muh "historical" claims on everything I want!! Muh one stronk china!!! whaaaa!") Are finally running into reality. It may have worked till now, solely thanks to appeasement and fear of tantrum, based on misguided/mistaken economic slingshot theories allowed to play out way too long. But international patience has pretty much run out.

The West meanwhile has no desire for Russian land.

It has nothing to do with territory. A series of troops and anti missile missiles deployed along the Russian border threaten Russia's strategic strike capability.

PRC domination of Central Asia means Russia loses influence there.
Plus the risk the PRC wants to reclaim Outer Manchuria.

domination ----A very superficial strategy.Using this word shows that you underestimate China's strategic depth.What China is doing will destroy the foundation on which international capitalism depends.This is a long-term goal that could last for centuries.Russia is obviously willing to join the program and actively cooperate in many projects.
Q：What do you think is the root cause of poverty in Central Asia and Africa?China's strategy is based on its understanding of this reason

Ok nm.. I see that I likely wasted my time arguing with a ccp employee.
A: Nothing related to why/what china is concerned about or there for. That's pretty clear.

So wait, are you trying to claim that the PRC isn't violating human rights in Hong Kong? That it isn't committing genocide against it's Muslim people? That it isn't currently threatening India's borders? That it is illegally occupying Tibetan land?

I'm saying that as a citizen of a country that isn't involved in this (not Chinese, nor Indian, nor American), further cooperating with the United States in order to oppose Chinese aggression sounds very much like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

I don't think my country or the world in general will be a significantly worse place under Chinese hegemony than it currently is under American hegemony, I don't think my country or the world in general will be a significantly worse place if we choose to look out for our interests instead of blindly parroting whatever the American diplomatic line is, and so I don't really see why my country needs to spend time and resources being a participating in these sorts of great power struggles one way or another.

This is the height of irony, privilege and non critical thinking. On a site made possible (free) by a side you are badmouthing and claiming to be just as bad as the other, who locks people up for merely not agreeing with it completely enough. There, there is one way it will be significantly worse!

[Rio Cana]

One thing is for sure, this India vs. China has let loose India's news and information services against China. They are hitting China hard. Latest news (see video below) coming from mostly various Indian sources is that Chinese leaders have said that the Russian port city of Vladivostok belongs to China. I find that news strange since China and Russia signed some time ago a second formal border agreement in which the Russians even had to give China half a river island. But like they say, treaties can be broken. If the Indian news is true, chances are NK. will become very upset. Yes, NK. and China cooperate. But in the end, NK. does not trust China. Neither does SK. Its a Korean thing due to China's historical involvement at times in Korea. The situation in that part of the world could really turn ugly.

Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX5rZVH-9hY

It is probably the case that the PRC viewed the border agreement with Russia as temporary agreement of convenience and will violate it as soon as it becomes convenient to do so.
The PRC does not believe in treaties to be anything more than short term propaganda.

Someone posted a site called "international centre for defense and security", its from Estonia. On that site they have an article by a Russian political scientist who says China in the future might even give Russia ultimatums. The article - https://icds.ee/vladivostok-political-s ... he-future/

[Plzen]

This is the height of irony, privilege and non critical thinking. On a site made possible (free) by a side you are badmouthing and claiming to be just as bad as the other, who locks people up for merely not agreeing with it completely enough. There, there is one way it will be significantly worse! :roll:

“The west is freer than China, so a western-dominated world will be freer than a Chinese-dominated one.”

See, I don’t buy that line of reasoning at all. However free the United States is at home, American diplomats promoting American foreign policy has made it very clear pretty much since there was such a thing as American foreign policy that they’re not interested in promoting democracy or freedom abroad.

US allies may be free countries, but they’re not free because they are US allies. Correlation-causation.

[Kowani]

This is the height of irony, privilege and non critical thinking. On a site made possible (free) by a side you are badmouthing and claiming to be just as bad as the other, who locks people up for merely not agreeing with it completely enough. There, there is one way it will be significantly worse!

“The west is freer than China, so a western-dominated world will be freer than a Chinese-dominated one.”

See, I don’t buy that line of reasoning at all. However free the United States is at home, American diplomats promoting American foreign policy has made it very clear pretty much since there was such a thing as American foreign policy that they’re not interested in promoting democracy or freedom abroad.

US allies may be free countries, but they’re not free because they are US allies. Correlation-causation.

Laughs in Saudi Arabia