NationStates

Has anyone posted any odds yet? Personally, i'd bet heavy on India.

Novus America wrote:

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:In the last few days of military exercises, China transported an armored brigade from the middle to the border at an altitude of 4700m within 24 hours. And conducted three-dimensional combat exercises.If they want to, they can transport several more armored brigades at the same time.

Being able to transport a few armored brigades across territory controlled by the PRC, is quite different than pushing across the border where they will be ambushed and destroyed.
Armored units would do very poorly. There are only a few roads and passed they can use, and ATGMs could be used to ambush and destroy them in these bottle necks.

Especially as a noted before the Indians actually have the PRC outnumbered. By sending too much money and personnel to the PLAN the PLAGF is now undermanned. Demographics are on India’s side.

Yup and the Indian government is already starting to ready specific defenses. And: "On 20 June, India removed restriction on usage of firearms for Indian soldiers along the LAC."

India deploys specialised mountain forces to check China’s LAC transgressions

India has deployed its specialised high altitude warfare forces along the 3,488 km Line of Actual Control (LAC) to repel any transgression by the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) in either western, middle or eastern sectors.

Top government sources confirmed that Indian Army has been directed to safeguard the LAC from any cross-border aggression by the PLA, which is showing hostile intent by amassing troops in a bid to cow down the Narendra Modi government.

It is understood that specialised forces trained over the past decades for fighting on the northern front have been pushed up to the frontier to impose military costs if the red flag goes up. Unlike the PLA which moves in infantry combat vehicles and paved metalled roads to move, the Indian mountain troops are trained in guerrilla warfare and fighting in high altitude as shown by them in Kargil War.

The Horror Channel wrote:Has anyone posted any odds yet? Personally, i'd bet heavy on India.

India has been on good form lately but China is still the bookies' favourite in this fixture especially if it runs into extra-time. Interesting that both teams have retained their respective managers from the previous years, perhaps a sign of wanting to reassure the fans during this very turbulent season. At the end of the day it's all about the results so the in-play bets could get interesting. Over to you, Bob..

James_xenoland wrote:

Novus America wrote:
Being able to transport a few armored brigades across territory controlled by the PRC, is quite different than pushing across the border where they will be ambushed and destroyed.
Armored units would do very poorly. There are only a few roads and passed they can use, and ATGMs could be used to ambush and destroy them in these bottle necks.

Especially as a noted before the Indians actually have the PRC outnumbered. By sending too much money and personnel to the PLAN the PLAGF is now undermanned. Demographics are on India’s side.

Yup and the Indian government is already starting to ready specific defenses. And: "On 20 June, India removed restriction on usage of firearms for Indian soldiers along the LAC."

India deploys specialised mountain forces to check China’s LAC transgressions

India has deployed its specialised high altitude warfare forces along the 3,488 km Line of Actual Control (LAC) to repel any transgression by the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) in either western, middle or eastern sectors.

Top government sources confirmed that Indian Army has been directed to safeguard the LAC from any cross-border aggression by the PLA, which is showing hostile intent by amassing troops in a bid to cow down the Narendra Modi government.

It is understood that specialised forces trained over the past decades for fighting on the northern front have been pushed up to the frontier to impose military costs if the red flag goes up. Unlike the PLA which moves in infantry combat vehicles and paved metalled roads to move, the Indian mountain troops are trained in guerrilla warfare and fighting in high altitude as shown by them in Kargil War.

India's mountain army has ten divisions.They're obviously not special forces and they lack armored vehicles and their vehicles are imported, so they don't optimize the plateau environment .What Indians write is not worth reading.But I have a lot of jokes about the Indian army.For example, 90% of the planes that have been serviced by HAL have crashed.

James_xenoland wrote:

Novus America wrote:
Being able to transport a few armored brigades across territory controlled by the PRC, is quite different than pushing across the border where they will be ambushed and destroyed.
Armored units would do very poorly. There are only a few roads and passed they can use, and ATGMs could be used to ambush and destroy them in these bottle necks.

Especially as a noted before the Indians actually have the PRC outnumbered. By sending too much money and personnel to the PLAN the PLAGF is now undermanned. Demographics are on India’s side.

Yup and the Indian government is already starting to ready specific defenses. And: "On 20 June, India removed restriction on usage of firearms for Indian soldiers along the LAC."

India deploys specialised mountain forces to check China’s LAC transgressions

India has deployed its specialised high altitude warfare forces along the 3,488 km Line of Actual Control (LAC) to repel any transgression by the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) in either western, middle or eastern sectors.

Top government sources confirmed that Indian Army has been directed to safeguard the LAC from any cross-border aggression by the PLA, which is showing hostile intent by amassing troops in a bid to cow down the Narendra Modi government.

It is understood that specialised forces trained over the past decades for fighting on the northern front have been pushed up to the frontier to impose military costs if the red flag goes up. Unlike the PLA which moves in infantry combat vehicles and paved metalled roads to move, the Indian mountain troops are trained in guerrilla warfare and fighting in high altitude as shown by them in Kargil War.

I imagine this would lead to heightened military activity along the Korean DMZ between China+NK and US+SK, increased naval patrols in Senkaku and the SCS, and others.

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:

James_xenoland wrote:Yup and the Indian government is already starting to ready specific defenses. And: "On 20 June, India removed restriction on usage of firearms for Indian soldiers along the LAC."

India's mountain army has ten divisions.They're obviously not special forces and they lack armored vehicles and their vehicles are imported, so they don't optimize the plateau environment .What Indians write is not worth reading.But I have a lot of jokes about the Indian army.For example, 90% of the planes that have been serviced by HAL have crashed.

India is not going to invade a the Tibetan plateau. Armored vehicles are not great in high mountains. They are better in open environments. The Indians can hold their own, do not underestimate them.

Cannot think of a name wrote:Can long standing international tensions just...fucking give us a minute? Leave something for 2021.

Getting it all over with at once might be easier.

Novus America wrote:

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
India's mountain army has ten divisions.They're obviously not special forces and they lack armored vehicles and their vehicles are imported, so they don't optimize the plateau environment .What Indians write is not worth reading.But I have a lot of jokes about the Indian army.For example, 90% of the planes that have been serviced by HAL have crashed.

India is not going to invade a the Tibetan plateau. Armored vehicles are not great in high mountains. They are better in open environments. The Indians can hold their own, do not underestimate them.

Tibet Mountain area is different from other mountain areas. You can't carry much supplies and heavy weapons without a vehicle. In this way, it is impossible to pose a real threat to the fortification or conduct tactical maneuver.The use of helicopters and transport aircraft here is extremely limited and cannot stay for a long time.What's important here is logistics, logistics and logistics.
That's because you don't really care about the Indian army so you don't know what the real Indian army looks like.

I hope that this doesn't mean war

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:

Novus America wrote:
India is not going to invade a the Tibetan plateau. Armored vehicles are not great in high mountains. They are better in open environments. The Indians can hold their own, do not underestimate them.

Tibet Mountain area is different from other mountain areas. You can't carry much supplies and heavy weapons without a vehicle. In this way, it is impossible to pose a real threat to the fortification or conduct tactical maneuver.The use of helicopters and transport aircraft here is extremely limited and cannot stay for a long time.What's important here is logistics, logistics and logistics.
That's because you don't really care about the Indian army so you don't know what the real Indian army looks like.

Logistics are generally not carried by armored vehicles...
I am not sure what you add exactly trying to say, but again yes India will NOT try to suddenly invade the Tibetan Plateau. However defensive operations in the higher mountains do not necessarily do best using armored vehicles. In very rough terrain light infantry with ATGMs can be superior.

Armored vehicles are better for lower flatter areas. ,

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

Aclion wrote:No you don't. You can just board and seize them in open water.

Piracy then.

In either case we're well out of the envelope of anything a future US administration would do, and as an Australian I have no further interests in your decadent power projection wanking.

Unlike Nobel here, I stand firmly with the United States of America no matter who the president is. I also doubt his country's PM or the vast majority of Australians agree with him, thankfully. ScoMo has done an absolutely terrific job of keeping the Wuhan coronavirus at bay, so he's not going anywhere. Australians are not going to take too kindly to their country being labeled "gum on China's shoe" by Chinese state media and being threatened with economic blackmail for daring to demand an independent investigation into the origins of the coronavirus pandemic.

Chamberlainian appeasement is the very last thing the world needs right now. Direct action is what's needed. Boycott. Divestment. Sanctions. A full-scale Cold War with China. Everything short of a deadly military confrontation. But if China dares to make the first move, we respond, and India is likely to respond, with guns blazing. Now is not the time to hold back. The only language the biggest enemy of freedom and world peace understands is the language of might makes right. It's time for the world to give China a taste of its own toxic Kool-Aid and show them who's on the right side of history and who isn't.

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:

Auze wrote:I wouldn't say it is something India can't win, the Himalayas block any major troop movements for either side to really attack each other. While China may seem powerful, I wouldn't discount India winning this, particularly if a few other nations decide to back them in the conflict.

I have a feeling if a conflict breaks out between the Chinese and Indians, the Indians would be strongly supported by SK, Japan, Vietnam, the Philippines, the ROC and Malaysia. Probably add in Australia and NATO/EU for good measure. Relations aren’t exactly as warm as they used to be before.

I doubt Malaysia, the Philippines under Duterte, Brunei, and Singapore would even bother to join in the hostilities. Our corrupt, unelected, backdoor government would sooner sell Malaysia out to the CCP than stand up to it. Even our two-time former PM Mahathir Mohamad has proved to be somewhat unreliable in opposing China's imperialist interests in the region when he granted Huawei free rein to operate in the country, stating that he would refuse to toe the American line. (He's also a self-proclaimed antisemite, increasingly irrelevant and well into his 90s.) Cambodia is also known to be a neocolonial extension of China. Hun Sen would more than likely back the Chinese side in exchange for more Belt-and-Road goodies and a greater ability to oppress his own people. I think Indonesia is more likely to side with India. The country claims the southernmost section of the South China ASEAN Sea, known as the North Natuna Sea. I don't know how much, if any, of a beef South Korea has with China compared to its longstanding spat with North Korea and, to a lesser extent, Japan.

The Grims wrote:

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
It makes sense. China has angered the Yetis, and will be conquered by same.

Lol..China is the worlds dominant superpower. It is not going anywhere.

America remains by far the world's preeminent superpower. India + the USA, Australia, Japan, and a whole host of other countries would be able to shift the odds in India's favor. India, like any reasonable, democratic country, has allies. China, like every playground bully, stands alone, fearful of even its own shadow. And they better be afraid because we're gonna fuck them in more ways than one. I know it.

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:

James_xenoland wrote:Yup and the Indian government is already starting to ready specific defenses. And: "On 20 June, India removed restriction on usage of firearms for Indian soldiers along the LAC."

I imagine this would lead to heightened military activity along the Korean DMZ between China+NK and US+SK, increased naval patrols in Senkaku and the SCS, and others.

China and the pro-Chinese unification KMT on Taiwan claim the Senkakus as a part of "Chinese" territory for vague "historical reasons" that nobody who isn't a Chinese ultranationalist, Han chauvinist, irredentist imperialist even remotely gives a shit about. The ruling, pro-Taiwan independence DPP could care less and does not consider the islands to be "Taiwanese". May the Senkakus remain in Japanese hands for the next 10,000 years. China can shove right off with its "historical claims". The entirety of the ASEAN Sea belongs to ASEAN and Taiwan, and China doesn't have the right to unilaterally lay claim to any other border regions, aggressively send troops over, and then gaslight, project, and falsely accuse the other side of "imperialist aggression". Call a fucking bluff.

So China is killing soldiers from India, it's overfishing the waters of Iran, it's making illegitimate claims to the South China Sea, it's oppressing and occupying Tibet, it's leaving its own people choking on the pollution within its borders...

..remind me again why the world hasn't boycotted that fascist dystopia yet?

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:So China is killing soldiers from India, it's overfishing the waters of Iran, it's making illegitimate claims to the South China Sea, it's oppressing and occupying Tibet, it's leaving its own people choking on the pollution within its borders...

..remind me again why the world hasn't boycotted that fascist dystopia yet?

Because caring about human rights is something people say but don't mean.

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:So China is killing soldiers from India, it's overfishing the waters of Iran, it's making illegitimate claims to the South China Sea, it's oppressing and occupying Tibet, it's leaving its own people choking on the pollution within its borders...

..remind me again why the world hasn't boycotted that fascist dystopia yet?

Because it's more profitable to look the other way.

China has a paper tiger army that has no
civilian oversight to monitor allocation of funds and an inability to retain professional soldiers, they also have the fatal flaw of disallowing NCOs to make their own decisions without permission from above.

This is the problem with a military that is more concerned with Party loyalty than professionalism.

Genivaria wrote:China has a paper tiger army that has no
civilian oversight to monitor allocation of funds and an inability to retain professional soldiers, they also have the fatal flaw of disallowing NCOs to make their own decisions without permission from above.

This is the problem with a military that is more concerned with Party loyalty than professionalism.

The last time a soviet style "big picture" army went up against a mission style planning western army, the soviets won.

Diopolis wrote:

Genivaria wrote:China has a paper tiger army that has no
civilian oversight to monitor allocation of funds and an inability to retain professional soldiers, they also have the fatal flaw of disallowing NCOs to make their own decisions without permission from above.

This is the problem with a military that is more concerned with Party loyalty than professionalism.

The last time a soviet style "big picture" army went up against a mission style planning western army, the soviets won.

The difference (well one of many), is that the Soviets were defending against essentially a war of genocide and lost tens of millions in the process.
The PLA on the other hand will be doing the invading with a poorly trained, and poorly led military that's rife with corruption, into a mountainous region against a force that is used to fighting in the mountains.

It would be more analogous to the Soviets in the early years charging the Maginot line.

Diopolis wrote:

Genivaria wrote:China has a paper tiger army that has no
civilian oversight to monitor allocation of funds and an inability to retain professional soldiers, they also have the fatal flaw of disallowing NCOs to make their own decisions without permission from above.

This is the problem with a military that is more concerned with Party loyalty than professionalism.

The last time a soviet style "big picture" army went up against a mission style planning western army, the soviets won.

Which war is this in reference to? WW2?

Relevant.

5 weaknesses plaguing the People's Liberation Army

Rusozak wrote:

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:So China is killing soldiers from India, it's overfishing the waters of Iran, it's making illegitimate claims to the South China Sea, it's oppressing and occupying Tibet, it's leaving its own people choking on the pollution within its borders...

..remind me again why the world hasn't boycotted that fascist dystopia yet?

Because it's more profitable to look the other way.

Not after their latest pandemic caused a recession it isn't.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3952297

According to US intel sources this was not an isolated incident that escalated, but a deliberately ordered PRC attack to "teach India a lesson”.

This is just another example of Xi’s insane “Wolf Warrior” foreign policy, thinking that all other countries need to be smashed into submission.

But it appears to have backfired with Indians being outraged instead of cowed.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Diopolis wrote:The last time a soviet style "big picture" army went up against a mission style planning western army, the soviets won.

Which war is this in reference to? WW2?

Yes.

The PRC should buy Tu-22Ms to go along with its foreign policy

In another spectacular failure by Xi his attacks on India have resulted in India banning PRC apps like TitTok.
Which is a major blow because India has potential to be the biggest market having the largest yong population.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemi ... 06128.html

India might block Huawei as well.

This is a major blow to the PRC’s desire to compete with the US in tech, being blocked out of the Indian market by Xi’s madness.
Indians are now switching to US apps like Instagram:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html
This might also help Indian apps as well.

Xi’s “wolf warrior” foreign policy is undermining the PRC’s economic policy goals.

Hopefully more countries follow in India’s footsteps.

额，作为一个中国人来说我认为事态处于可以控制的范围内。印度与中国都不想让冲突扩大化。

Novus America wrote:The PRC should buy Tu-22Ms to go along with its foreign policy

In another spectacular failure by Xi his attacks on India have resulted in India banning PRC apps like TitTok.
Which is a major blow because India has potential to be the biggest market having the largest yong population.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemi ... 06128.html

India might block Huawei as well.

This is a major blow to the PRC’s desire to compete with the US in tech, being blocked out of the Indian market by Xi’s madness.
Indians are now switching to US apps like Instagram:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html
This might also help Indian apps as well.

Xi’s “wolf warrior” foreign policy is undermining the PRC’s economic policy goals.

Hopefully more countries follow in India’s footsteps.

tik tok并不重要。