Indian Soldiers Die Following Standoff with Chinese Forces

[James_xenoland]

Wow... 2020 just keeps getting better and better!

From what i've seen and read while looking into this. It seems that China is up to a few of their old favorite games. Specifically. "Anything we want was, is and will continue to be ours. (despite the fact that we just took it)" As well as the old smash and grab,... then rewrite history/reality and claim to be the victim. They attacked Indian troops patrolling parts of the Galwan Valley, which had been held and controlled by India for at least ~60 years. They attempted to setup structures on the Indian side (gee this tactic sounds very familiar) and things turned violent. Then/now they claim that the whole of the Galwan Valley was really always inside chinese occupied territory and that these "incursions" into chinese (soon to no doubt be classified as 'historic') territory were acts of aggression against the innocent peace-loving chinese government.

So they literally attempted another south asian sea here and thanks to actual resistance, were stopped. Looking back into recent years, they seem to be pulling shit like this continually. Then building heavy infrastructure and defenses. (again.. all very familiar) It looks like this latest issue was sparked off by china throwing a tantrum over India building a much needed road to and along (well inside) the border. As air travel was the only way in or out from their side before. (thus china's free hand in the area coming to an end) And china felt "threatened" because it means their thousands and thousands of miles of roads, defenses, fortifications, infrastructure and dozens of military and air bases, are now not alone in the area. (the absolute horror)

China's pretty much finished internationally and regionally at this point.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

China's pretty much finished internationally and regionally at this point.

You actually believe that?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

China's pretty much finished internationally and regionally at this point.

You actually believe that?

It makes sense. China has angered the Yetis, and will be conquered by same.

[The Grims]

You actually believe that?

It makes sense. China has angered the Yetis, and will be conquered by same.

Lol..China is the worlds dominant superpower. It is not going anywhere.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

It makes sense. China has angered the Yetis, and will be conquered by same.

Lol..China is the worlds dominant superpower. It is not going anywhere.

Well it's in a great strategic position if geopolitics was a game of Risk.

In the real world, it's the second ranked super-power for a while yet.

Third-ranked, if you recognize Europe.

[Aclion]

It makes sense. China has angered the Yetis, and will be conquered by same.

Lol..China is the worlds dominant superpower. It is not going anywhere.

China is utterly dependent on it's ability to export goods and import food, for which it need access to the worlds oceans, access it does not have the naval capacity to enforce, and it's long past time they were reminded of this with a good old fashioned blockade.

[James_xenoland]

From a few hours ago:

Armed forces told to forcefully deal with Chinese aggression along LAC

NEW DELHI: The armed forces deployed along the 3,500-km de-facto border with China have been given "full freedom" in giving "befitting" reply to any Chinese aggressive behaviour, government sources said after Defence Minister Rajnath Singh held a high-level meeting with top military brass on the situation in eastern Ladakh.

It looks like India is not going to play around anymore. (i.e. pretend to ignore or play down open chinese threats and aggressions as the world has done for so long) This is where things either get dangerous or hilarious. As we all know that children tend to either kick and scream, or cry and tantrum when they don't get their way and are challenged.

China's pretty much finished internationally and regionally at this point.

You actually believe that?

I meant in terms of respect, getting their way and free access the rest of the world. It's time the ccp/government starts getting treated like the 3rd world totalitarian children they are and were never forced to grow out of. The experiment is largely over. The first world tried boosting them to accelerate their growth.. but all they did was get richer and more advanced. We allowed a 3rd world dictatorship to succeed in a way they never wold have been able to naturally without major change/growing up and moderation. Now we are currently seeing the price. And the chinese people are and have been paying that price. Not to mention all the other countries currently being occupied or threatened.

It makes sense. China has angered the Yetis, and will be conquered by same.

Lol..China is the worlds dominant superpower. It is not going anywhere.

Dominant what?! lol Nothing dominant usually has to wait until all the other big players temporarily leave the area before scurrying out to pound their chest. *coughsouthasianseacough*
If even some of the major players pull out of the country, their economy would end up making 1920 look like a small speed bump in comparison. If there's anything more paper tiger than their "superpower" status, it's their economy.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Lol..China is the worlds dominant superpower. It is not going anywhere.

China is utterly dependent on it's ability to export goods and import food, for which it need access to the worlds oceans, access it does not have the naval capacity to enforce, and it's long past time they were reminded of this with a good old fashioned blockade.

A blockade requires that you sink ships attempting to break it.

You and which fascist navy?

[Aclion]

China is utterly dependent on it's ability to export goods and import food, for which it need access to the worlds oceans, access it does not have the naval capacity to enforce, and it's long past time they were reminded of this with a good old fashioned blockade.

A blockade requires that you sink ships attempting to break it.

No you don't. You can just board and seize them in open water. We're not trying to cut off military supplies or communistic, so the blockade doesn't need to be 100% successful. It just needs to raise the cost of shipping to and from china enough that it's cheaper to shift to other countries.

You and which fascist navy?

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

China is going to be a more important market than the US for a lot of countries. Good luck trying to organise a coalition against them. Especially after Trump's behaviour on the international stage. It's not like you could blockade China without damaging your own economy, hurt the US farming sector and make consumers face huge price increases.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

A blockade requires that you sink ships attempting to break it.

No you don't. You can just board and seize them in open water.

Piracy then.

In either case we're well out of the envelope of anything a future US administration would do, and as an Australian I have no further interests in your decadent power projection wanking.

[James_xenoland]

This, in conjunction with the DPRK blowing up the liason office at the DMZ,

Condolences to the friends and families of all the combatants.

That actually is an even more scary event in the context of this than most people realize. If India and china went to full on war and china had reason to believe that the US might get involved (or OC if they actually did) then it's very likely that we see things in Korea get very... interesting. If that were to happen then all bets would be off. It would be highly unlikely that Japan, with issues of their own with china, would be able to stay out of this. Not to mention Vietnam has their own history with china and their own current issues with them. Which has been moving them closer to the US and other asian countries. (I mean at one point a few years ago there was even talk of the hope/potential for some form of future defense agreement) Also.. Don't forget that India and Russia have a weird friendship going all the way back to the cold war. If it came down to India or china.. Worst case is that they don't take sides. A war could turn into WWIII a lot quicker than anyone imagines.

China is going to be a more important market than the US for a lot of countries. Good luck trying to organise a coalition against them. Especially after Trump's behaviour on the international stage. It's not like you could blockade China without damaging your own economy, hurt the US farming sector and make consumers face huge price increases.

Oh yeah, because ccp continues to be so much better. It sounds like you have your head a little too far up certain anti-western western elites asses with this perspective. I don't think you quite understand the type of enemies china has made and is making, especially close to home. Also.. India says hello.
Yes, but the point is that it would utterly ruin china's. Paper tiger and all.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

War between India and China isn't something India can win, so let's hope it doesn't happen for India's sake. I'm not a big fan of either country but Chinese aggression and imperialism needs to be stopped. If things do heat up I can only hope the Indians can pull off a miracle victory. Any defeat the PRC suffers is good for the world at large.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

China is going to be a more important market than the US for a lot of countries. Good luck trying to organise a coalition against them. Especially after Trump's behaviour on the international stage. It's not like you could blockade China without damaging your own economy, hurt the US farming sector and make consumers face huge price increases.

Oh yeah, because ccp continues to be so much better. It sounds like you have your head a little too far up certain anti-western western elites asses with this perspective. I don't think you quite understand the type of enemies china has made and is making, especially close to home. Also.. India says hello.
Yes, but the point is that it would utterly ruin china's. Paper tiger and all.

It's not about the ccp being better. It's about political reality. Cutting to insults doesn't really bolster your position.

[Auze]

War between India and China isn't something India can win, so let's hope it doesn't happen for India's sake. I'm not a big fan of either country but Chinese aggression and imperialism needs to be stopped. If things do heat up I can only hope the Indians can pull off a miracle victory. Any defeat the PRC suffers is good for the world at large.

I wouldn't say it is something India can't win, the Himalayas block any major troop movements for either side to really attack each other. While China may seem powerful, I wouldn't discount India winning this, particularly if a few other nations decide to back them in the conflict.

[Aclion]

No you don't. You can just board and seize them in open water.

Piracy then.

In either case we're well out of the envelope of anything a future US administration would do, and as an Australian I have no further interests in your decadent power projection wanking.

YIt's funny that you think this would be even novel. We do this quite frequently, we've done it to cuba(granted much more narrowly) for half a century now, over much less.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

I wouldn't say it is something India can't win, the Himalayas block any major troop movements for either side to really attack each other.

In the last few days of military exercises, China transported an armored brigade from the middle to the border at an altitude of 4700m within 24 hours. And conducted three-dimensional combat exercises.If they want to, they can transport several more armored brigades at the same time.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

I wouldn't say it is something India can't win, the Himalayas block any major troop movements for either side to really attack each other.

In the last few days of military exercises, China transported an armored brigade from the middle to the border at an altitude of 4700m within 24 hours. And conducted three-dimensional combat exercises.If they want to, they can transport several more armored brigades at the same time.

But terrain is still a major factor which usually decides how fast they can get to the border (disregarding air transport).

War between India and China isn't something India can win, so let's hope it doesn't happen for India's sake. I'm not a big fan of either country but Chinese aggression and imperialism needs to be stopped. If things do heat up I can only hope the Indians can pull off a miracle victory. Any defeat the PRC suffers is good for the world at large.

I wouldn't say it is something India can't win, the Himalayas block any major troop movements for either side to really attack each other. While China may seem powerful, I wouldn't discount India winning this, particularly if a few other nations decide to back them in the conflict.

I have a feeling if a conflict breaks out between the Chinese and Indians, the Indians would be strongly supported by SK, Japan, Vietnam, the Philippines, the ROC and Malaysia. Probably add in Australia and NATO/EU for good measure. Relations aren’t exactly as warm as they used to be before.

It makes sense. China has angered the Yetis, and will be conquered by same.

Lol..China is the worlds dominant superpower. It is not going anywhere.

It does depend on how Xi decides to play his cards, if he plays it well, he could go off basically scot-free with the border claims, if he doesn’t or if international opinion is against him and the Party, it is possible they would collapse after likely internal strife.

[The Alma Mater]

If China falls.. who will then make MAGAcaps ?

[Rusozak]

If China falls.. who will then make MAGAcaps ?

Vietnam.

[Novus America]

Oh yeah, because ccp continues to be so much better. It sounds like you have your head a little too far up certain anti-western western elites asses with this perspective. I don't think you quite understand the type of enemies china has made and is making, especially close to home. Also.. India says hello.
Yes, but the point is that it would utterly ruin china's. Paper tiger and all.

It's not about the ccp being better. It's about political reality. Cutting to insults doesn't really bolster your position.

While “neoliberal” insanity might be a part of the political reality in as much as people still inexplicably believe in it, that is something we should be working to change.

[Novus America]

No you don't. You can just board and seize them in open water.

Piracy then.

In either case we're well out of the envelope of anything a future US administration would do, and as an Australian I have no further interests in your decadent power projection wanking.

Not piracy but it is an act of war. But if war were to break out, it absolutely would be a perfectly valid tactic.

Surrendering to Xi is not the solution. Although war is a last resort, we must be prepared.
Although we can and should use containment short of war, namely banning PRC goods, CCP members, and CCP owned and controlled companies from our countries.

[Novus America]

I wouldn't say it is something India can't win, the Himalayas block any major troop movements for either side to really attack each other.

In the last few days of military exercises, China transported an armored brigade from the middle to the border at an altitude of 4700m within 24 hours. And conducted three-dimensional combat exercises.If they want to, they can transport several more armored brigades at the same time.

Being able to transport a few armored brigades across territory controlled by the PRC, is quite different than pushing across the border where they will be ambushed and destroyed.
Armored units would do very poorly. There are only a few roads and passed they can use, and ATGMs could be used to ambush and destroy them in these bottle necks.

Especially as a noted before the Indians actually have the PRC outnumbered. By sending too much money and personnel to the PLAN the PLAGF is now undermanned. Demographics are on India’s side.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

In the last few days of military exercises, China transported an armored brigade from the middle to the border at an altitude of 4700m within 24 hours. And conducted three-dimensional combat exercises.If they want to, they can transport several more armored brigades at the same time.

But terrain is still a major factor which usually decides how fast they can get to the border (disregarding air transport).

Yep.How to fight is another problem.Rely more on information warfare in the plateau cold zone.And more dependent on supplies than the plain.Although the army that can be transported is not comparable to the plain, it is still a relatively large and effective military force.India has also deployed 200,000 troops in these areas.

[Cannot think of a name]

Can long standing international tensions just...fucking give us a minute? Leave something for 2021.