"looks masculine" OK got it.
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by Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:29 am
by Crockerland » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:38 am
New haven america wrote:hermaphrodites,
New haven america wrote:XXY,
Klinefelter syndrome is a chromosomal condition in boys and men that can affect physical and intellectual development. Most commonly, affected individuals are taller than average are unable to father biological children (infertile); however the signs and symptoms of Klinefelter syndrome vary among boys and men with this condition. In some cases, the features of the condition are so mild that the condition is not diagnosed until puberty or adulthood, and researchers believe that up to 75 percent of affected men and boys are never diagnosed.
New haven america wrote:XYY,
Most people have 46 chromosomes in each cell. In males, this typically includes one X chromosome and one Y chromosome (XY). XYY syndrome is a genetic condition that occurs when a male has an extra copy of the Y chromosome in each of their cells (XYY). Sometimes, this mutation is only present in some cells. Males with XYY syndrome have 47 chromosomes because of the extra Y chromosome.
This condition is also sometimes called Jacob’s syndrome, XYY karyotype, or YY syndrome. According to the National Institutes of Health, XYY syndrome occurs in 1 out of every 1,000 boys.
New haven america wrote:XXX, etc...
Triple X syndrome, also called trisomy X or 47,XXX, is a genetic disorder that affects about 1 in 1,000 females. Females normally have two X chromosomes in all cells — one X chromosome from each parent. In triple X syndrome, a female has three X chromosomes.
Many girls and women with triple X syndrome don't experience symptoms or have only mild symptoms. In others, symptoms may be more apparent — possibly including developmental delays and learning disabilities. Seizures and kidney abnormalities occur in a small number of girls and women with triple X syndrome.
Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:https://www.britannica.com/topic/berdache
“Berdache, also called (since 1990) two-spirit, early European designation for American Indians (in Canada called First Nations peoples) who did not conform to Western gender and sexual norms. The term held negative implications for a variety of sexual behavior, gender practices, and various physical sex characteristics. Since then, it has been utilized in anthropology and other disciplines to define American Indian homosexuality, transgenderism, and intersexuality.”
Binary western genders are a hoax.
by VVerkia » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:45 am
Grand Hellenic Republic wrote:The way non-binary has been explained to me is: "someone who identifies with neither sex" and I cannot for the life of me understand how that is possible. I cannot see how someone wouldnt feel at least some internal preference for either one of the 2 sexes at the very least, and therefore would be forced to identify as neither.
by Crockerland » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:46 am
Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:I mean a lot of gay men are attracted to men who aren’t considered masculine, biologically...
Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:Biology isn’t gender. If gay men are all attracted to the “male gender”, then they should all love masculine traits. But it’s not that simple.
Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:Gay men are not real men according to many men.
by Auzkhia » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:53 am
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:59 am
by Minskiev » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:02 am
by The Blaatschapen » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:04 am
VVerkia wrote:Grand Hellenic Republic wrote:The way non-binary has been explained to me is: "someone who identifies with neither sex" and I cannot for the life of me understand how that is possible. I cannot see how someone wouldnt feel at least some internal preference for either one of the 2 sexes at the very least, and therefore would be forced to identify as neither.
I can see it by analogy. Eg. in other topic question was "what race you are". I don't really care what race i'am, i only see what colour of skin i have. Or someone could ask "which team you favor". I don't. In that analogy i can visualise how someone can view own gender as neither. I don't know if i understand that person pov, but it's way i imagine it to try understand.
by Geneviev » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:07 am
Paleoconservative Citizens wrote:
Interesting. But this isn't an issue of feelings, this is an issue of facts. I'm born a male, therfore I'm a man. Surely I do have some feminine qualities and behaviors, but I'm not anything but a man. Our feelings work within gender, not outside of it. One can call me a "Feminine male" or something of the sort, but just because I display attributes normally attributed to women doesn't change the fact I am a man- and just because someone feels they aren't their gender, doesn't mean they are.
by Centai Mal » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:08 am
Crockerland wrote:Centai Mal wrote:On the basis that intersex people actually exist - i.e. people with a sex that is neither male not female - I don't doubt that non-binary people exist, if we specifically correlate gender as being analogous to sex.
Intersex conditions are not a separate sex from male or female, hence why if you go to medical sources and look up the conditions, they will tell you which sex the conditions affect - even including those which deviate from the standard chromosomes of the two genders. I listed out several of these on a separate thread a while ago so I'll just repost that quote here:Crockerland wrote:XXY (Klinefelter Syndrome) is specifically defined as a condition which occurs in males
https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/klinefelter-syndromeKlinefelter syndrome is a chromosomal condition in boys and men that can affect physical and intellectual development. Most commonly, affected individuals are taller than average are unable to father biological children (infertile); however the signs and symptoms of Klinefelter syndrome vary among boys and men with this condition. In some cases, the features of the condition are so mild that the condition is not diagnosed until puberty or adulthood, and researchers believe that up to 75 percent of affected men and boys are never diagnosed.
XYY (Jacob's Syndrome) is also a condition in males:
https://www.healthline.com/health/xyy-syndromeMost people have 46 chromosomes in each cell. In males, this typically includes one X chromosome and one Y chromosome (XY). XYY syndrome is a genetic condition that occurs when a male has an extra copy of the Y chromosome in each of their cells (XYY). Sometimes, this mutation is only present in some cells. Males with XYY syndrome have 47 chromosomes because of the extra Y chromosome.
This condition is also sometimes called Jacob’s syndrome, XYY karyotype, or YY syndrome. According to the National Institutes of Health, XYY syndrome occurs in 1 out of every 1,000 boys.
XXYY, similarly, is a condition found in males:
https://genetic.org/48xxyy-and-intersex-conditions/The XXYY Project wishes to correct a misunderstanding that has been derived from the definition of Intersex, as it relates to the sex of the child. Children born with the XXYY chromosomal makeup are:
Always male – unless there is some other factor involved
[...]
If by "XO" you are referring to 45,X0 - Turner Syndrome, that is found exclusively in females
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/turner-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20360782Turner syndrome, a condition that affects only females, results when one of the X chromosomes (sex chromosomes) is missing or partially missing. Turner syndrome can cause a variety of medical and developmental problems, including short height, failure of the ovaries to develop and heart defects.
Turner syndrome may be diagnosed before birth (prenatally), during infancy or in early childhood. Occasionally, in females with mild signs and symptoms of Turner syndrome, the diagnosis is delayed until the teen or young adult years.
Girls and women with Turner syndrome need ongoing medical care from a variety of specialists. Regular checkups and appropriate care can help most girls and women lead healthy, independent lives.
All the conditions you listed affect people who are genetically either male or female, the fact that they have a genetic disorder does not mean they are now some kind of third gender.
Intersex people are not a third gender.Centai Mal wrote:There's also the historical precedent of multiple non-binary genders found in many non-Western cultures, lending credence to this not being some new invention.
As I highlighted earlier in the thread, these "multiple non-binary genders" are usually just prejudiced, backwards societies labeling people a third gender because a man who is feminine and/or gay is "not a real man." The bigotry of non-Western cultures is nothing to romanticize.
by Aureumterra » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:10 am
by Crockerland » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:12 am
Centai Mal wrote:Crockerland wrote:Intersex conditions are not a separate sex from male or female, hence why if you go to medical sources and look up the conditions, they will tell you which sex the conditions affect - even including those which deviate from the standard chromosomes of the two genders. I listed out several of these on a separate thread a while ago so I'll just repost that quote here:
Intersex people are not a third gender.
As I highlighted earlier in the thread, these "multiple non-binary genders" are usually just prejudiced, backwards societies labeling people a third gender because a man who is feminine and/or gay is "not a real man." The bigotry of non-Western cultures is nothing to romanticize.
Intersex conditions are not necessarily chromosomal and sex-linked, as you have some cases of what Is referred to back in the day as “hermaphroditism” where the genitalia is somewhere between what are traditionally considered male and female. I suggest you brush up a lot more on intersex individuals.
It’s also incredibly ignorant to attempt to dismiss historical third genders (such as the Native American “two-spirit” identity) because it was simply “an effeminate man”. Seriously, do some more work that google before trying to debate these things
by Centai Mal » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:14 am
Crockerland wrote:Centai Mal wrote:Intersex conditions are not necessarily chromosomal and sex-linked, as you have some cases of what Is referred to back in the day as “hermaphroditism” where the genitalia is somewhere between what are traditionally considered male and female. I suggest you brush up a lot more on intersex individuals.
It’s also incredibly ignorant to attempt to dismiss historical third genders (such as the Native American “two-spirit” identity) because it was simply “an effeminate man”. Seriously, do some more work that google before trying to debate these things
Wow, that's a hilarious amount of irony and projection. You have no idea what you're talking about and couldn't formulate even a single argument.
by VVerkia » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:14 am
The Blaatschapen wrote:VVerkia wrote:I can see it by analogy. Eg. in other topic question was "what race you are". I don't really care what race i'am, i only see what colour of skin i have. Or someone could ask "which team you favor". I don't. In that analogy i can visualise how someone can view own gender as neither. I don't know if i understand that person pov, but it's way i imagine it to try understand.
I somehow feel that white supremacists should answer the "what race you are" question with "Nascar"
by Crockerland » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:17 am
Centai Mal wrote:Crockerland wrote:Wow, that's a hilarious amount of irony and projection. You have no idea what you're talking about and couldn't formulate even a single argument.
I responded to both of your points. The fact that you can’t follow that, and can’t argue against the points I made and have to resort to ad-hominem with no other substance, is not my fault.
by Palmyrion » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:21 am
by Centai Mal » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:21 am
by Crockerland » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:26 am
by Necroghastia » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:28 am
Korea1993 wrote:There Are Only Two Genders, Sincerely A Trans-Woman
by Giovenith » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:32 am
American Pere Housh wrote:I identify myself as an attack helicopter.
by Nolo gap » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:34 am
by Arkhane » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:35 am
by Centai Mal » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:44 am
Crockerland wrote:Centai Mal wrote:I’m sorry you can’t read. Maybe you should go ask your mom to help you sound out the words I used, and help you understand what they mean.
It's funny how you were crying about ad hominems, after you ad hominem attacked me, and now you're just insulting me because you have no argument or basis for whatever you're going on about. "Using actual valid medical sources?? OMG You're so ignorant!"
by Necroghastia » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:45 am
Arkhane wrote:If people think assigning gender labels are harmful, why create more labels?
By saying you are non-binary, you are reinforcing the idea that there is a binary that you can deviate from to begin with.
If you are a woman who enjoys things that are usually expected or stereotypicaly preferred by men, that doesn't make you any less of a woman or feminine. Your personal preferences simply happen to be usually attributed to what men prefer, there's no need to "figure out" or create a new label.
Therein lies the true freedom of expressing yourself.
by Crockerland » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:45 am
Arkhane wrote:If you are a woman who enjoys things that are usually expected or stereotypicaly preferred by men, that doesn't make you any less of a woman or feminine. Your personal preferences simply happen to be usually attributed to what men prefer, there's no need to "figure out" or create a new label.
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