The NationStates Feminism Thread IV: Fight Like A Girl!

[Borderlands of Rojava]

"Explain to us in 500 sentences why Sarah, a young Jewish American bisexual girl from a family of upper middle class lawyers in West Bloomfield, is actually an oppressed minority."

I had to deal with this shit in my sociology class. It was annoying and cringe and full of so much self pity, I struggled to not scream "STOP BEING A PROFESSIONAL VICTIM, HALF OF YOU DONT KNOW HARDSHIP AT ALL." I'll pray to the God I don't believe in that you do well on this assignment.

i mean... people are oppressed for reasons besides being poor

If you're an upper middle class white girl in America, I really don't see what oppression there Is to complain about. You're likely to be privileged in the criminal justice system, the militarized police don't roll through your neighborhood all the time and the GOP isn't currently trying to prevent you from voting.

It's even worse when you're trying to tell a young man of color why you're the one who can't walk the streets alone. The crime stats basically show otherwise.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

i mean... people are oppressed for reasons besides being poor

If you're an upper middle class white girl in America, I really don't see what oppression there Is to complain about. You're likely to be privileged in the criminal justice system, the militarized police don't roll through your neighborhood all the time and the GOP isn't currently trying to prevent you from voting.

It's even worse when you're trying to tell a young man of color why you're the one who can't walk the streets alone. The crime stats basically show otherwise.

well, in the example of the hypothetical Sarah, she's a woman, and is subject to the struggles that entails, like sexual harassment in the workplace and elsewhere. she's Jewish, susceptible to antisemitic attacks, physical and verbal. she's bisexual, making her more suspect to sexual harassment, ridicule, assault. her parents could kick her out, negating her social status and the privileges that go with it (assuming that she lives with them or lives off their money, it wasn't clear). i'm not saying that your struggles are unimportant, just that class and race are not the sole factors of difficulty and oppression in people's lives.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

If you're an upper middle class white girl in America, I really don't see what oppression there Is to complain about. You're likely to be privileged in the criminal justice system, the militarized police don't roll through your neighborhood all the time and the GOP isn't currently trying to prevent you from voting.

It's even worse when you're trying to tell a young man of color why you're the one who can't walk the streets alone. The crime stats basically show otherwise.

well, in the example of the hypothetical Sarah, she's a woman, and is subject to the struggles that entails, like sexual harassment in the workplace and elsewhere. she's Jewish, susceptible to antisemitic attacks, physical and verbal. she's bisexual, making her more suspect to sexual harassment, ridicule, assault. her parents could kick her out, negating her social status and the privileges that go with it (assuming that she lives with them or lives off their money, it wasn't clear). i'm not saying that your struggles are unimportant, just that class and race are not the sole factors of difficulty and oppression in people's lives.

First off men get sexually harassed all the time. We as a society tolerate it though and then ask men why they act so weird when a woman comes onto them in a way that was not asked for nor wanted and ridicule them for not responding positively. As for the part about antisemitism, that is indeed an issue in our society today but the government itself is not targeting her, whereas impoverished inner city minority communities deal with murder and violence from the police, not just some rando with an axe to grind. And while being bi indeed may make her more susceptible to sexual harassment (I haven't seen the stats on the issue), I still hesitate to call that oppression. That term gets used for the wrong reasons sometimes. My point is, while her life may have it's struggles, for her to pretend that she has it especially bad or worse than most other people is just incorrect and out of touch.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

well, in the example of the hypothetical Sarah, she's a woman, and is subject to the struggles that entails, like sexual harassment in the workplace and elsewhere. she's Jewish, susceptible to antisemitic attacks, physical and verbal. she's bisexual, making her more suspect to sexual harassment, ridicule, assault. her parents could kick her out, negating her social status and the privileges that go with it (assuming that she lives with them or lives off their money, it wasn't clear). i'm not saying that your struggles are unimportant, just that class and race are not the sole factors of difficulty and oppression in people's lives.

First off men get sexually harassed all the time. We as a society tolerate it though and then ask men why they act so weird when a woman comes onto them in a way that was not asked for nor wanted and ridicule them for not responding positively. As for the part about antisemitism, that is indeed an issue in our society today but the government itself is not targeting her, whereas impoverished inner city minority communities deal with murder and violence from the police, not just some rando with an axe to grind. And while being bi indeed may make her more susceptible to sexual harassment (I haven't seen the stats on the issue), I still hesitate to call that oppression. That term gets used for the wrong reasons sometimes. My point is, while her life may have it's struggles, for her to pretend that she has it especially bad or worse than most other people is just incorrect and out of touch.

i know that men are sexually harassed. does that mean women aren't? oppression doesn't have to be from the government, it can just be from society at large. in the moment, it doesn't matter much if it's the congressman advocating policies that put you at risk or your neighbor quite literally trying to kill you. i listed sexual harassment, but surely you must know that lgbt+ people face much worse as well, and are very obviously oppressed. or course if sarah, or anyone really, tried to tell you your struggles are insignificant, or nonexistent, they would be wrong, and an asshole. but sarah still has her own struggles. comparing hers to yours just seems like a way to create useless animosity.

Yeah, about the government and targeting Jews, i dunno if you've heard before, but there was this little thing people sometimes call the Holocaust, and in America specifically, refusal to accept Jewish refuges during it. Obviously not happening right now, but it's not like government antisemitism has never been a thing.

[Kowani]

National Women's History Museum asks people to submit nominations of women to be on the quarter

The National Women’s History Museum wants to know which woman you would like to see featured on a special series of U.S. quarters.

The person you choose must fit the bill of a “pioneering American woman.” It will be a posthumous honor.

The coins will be out next year.

Submissions can be made here

[Stellar Colonies]

National Women's History Museum asks people to submit nominations of women to be on the quarter

The National Women’s History Museum wants to know which woman you would like to see featured on a special series of U.S. quarters.

The person you choose must fit the bill of a “pioneering American woman.” It will be a posthumous honor.

The coins will be out next year.

Submissions can be made here

Sally Ride comes to mind first for me.

Edit: Looks like other people had the same idea, judging by the early decisions.

[The Rich Port]

If Bechdel isn't in there she should be. For the quarter... Maybe someone "associated" to George Washington XD

It would be really sad to me if none of Washington's slaves ever wrote something or if we even remember their names.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

my god i just accidentally submitted an english woman i thought she was american all this time

[The Rich Port]

my god i just accidentally submitted an english woman i thought she was american all this time

Hey us in America are inclusive

NGL I really want more people to know about this Catholic saint lady. John Waters talked about her, she apparently was a saint who was one of the craziest and worse ones XD

She sold indulgences, she ripped off the scabs of sick people and ate them... Very Maleficent!

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

my god i just accidentally submitted an english woman i thought she was american all this time

Hey us in America are inclusive

NGL I really want more people to know about this Catholic saint lady. John Waters talked about her, she apparently was a saint who was one of the craziest and worse ones XD

She sold indulgences, she ripped off the scabs of sick people and ate them... Very Maleficent!

lmao she sounds great

i had submitted rosalind franklin. she took picture 51, the first picture of dna, which proved its shape to be a double helix. she worked with watson and crick, but unlike them was never awarded a nobel prize due to misogyny and her early death. we learned about her in school and all this time i thought she was american, but no, she was born, worked, and died in england. guess that's what happens when you don't pay enough attention in class.

[Kowani]

Chile considers law to allow people to change the order of their last names, to let the mother's last name come first, as well as letting parents do this for their children. (Consent needed if the child is over 14)

[The Blaatschapen]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ls/606568/

Three months late with posting this, but shocking I say. Shocking

[Nevertopia]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/if-you-want-marriage-equals-then-date-equals/606568/

Three months late with posting this, but shocking I say. Shocking

Yup, the dating scene can be so sexist towards men. I can't count the times a server would make disparaging comments towards me when my gf picks up the bill for our dinner together.

[Galloism]

i know that men are sexually harassed. does that mean women aren't?

So oppression olympics is explicitly based on comparative experience. If men and women suffer similarly in a particular area, neither are oppressed in that area.

It’s like bemoaning that white people are suffering sexual harassment, so sexual harassment is oppression of white people. There’s no data that I know of to suggest that white people are subject to more sexual harassment than black people, so claiming sexual harassment is “white oppression” is a racist thing that suggests that other races don’t suffer the same thing at similar rates. And that’s being racist.

If you cite something as men’s oppression or women’s oppression, it must be either not suffered by the other group or at least not suffered to the same or similar degree or amount a by the other group, otherwise you’re being sexist.

[New haven america]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/if-you-want-marriage-equals-then-date-equals/606568/

Three months late with posting this, but shocking I say. Shocking

Oh look, something I've been saying for years now.

i to am shocked at this revelation

[Galloism]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/if-you-want-marriage-equals-then-date-equals/606568/

Three months late with posting this, but shocking I say. Shocking

Turns out, when you’re the immediate beneficiary of sexist gender roles, you have little incentive to change them.

That might be why the data we have suggests women are primary enforcers of gender roles. Largely, they are the ones benefitting from them.

[Nevertopia]

i know that men are sexually harassed. does that mean women aren't?

So oppression olympics is explicitly based on comparative experience. If men and women suffer similarly in a particular area, neither are oppressed in that area.

It’s like bemoaning that white people are suffering sexual harassment, so sexual harassment is oppression of white people. There’s no data that I know of to suggest that white people are subject to more sexual harassment than black people, so claiming sexual harassment is “white oppression” is a racist thing that suggests that other races don’t suffer the same thing at similar rates. And that’s being racist.

If you cite something as men’s oppression or women’s oppression, it must be either not suffered by the other group or at least not suffered to the same or similar degree or amount a by the other group, otherwise you’re being sexist.

this reminds me of a feminist protest in Toronto a few weeks back. A mental support group for men affected by suicide was harassed by women because they wouldnt allow women into the support group. Maybe if the protestors took a step back and realized how what theyre doing is part of why men need their own mental health support groups maybe they'd understand how stigma plays a part in men needing support from other men in this scenario.

[Nakena]

National Women's History Museum asks people to submit nominations of women to be on the quarter

The National Women’s History Museum wants to know which woman you would like to see featured on a special series of U.S. quarters.

The person you choose must fit the bill of a “pioneering American woman.” It will be a posthumous honor.

The coins will be out next year.

Submissions can be made here

I nomminated Hedy Lamarr

As we face the uncertainty of the current COVID-19 pandemic, one helpful invention has eased the anxieties of staying at home and assists us daily with our new teleworking lives. Wi-Fi, or wireless fidelity, allows us to stay plugged into the internet while roaming our homes for the perfect spot to type up emails or binge-watch our favorite shows. As with the invention of the computer, the technology that made Wi-Fi possible came about during another devastating global event: World War II. The head inventor wasn’t a scientist or engineer, but a famous Hollywood actress with an obsession with tinkering.

[Nevertopia]

National Women's History Museum asks people to submit nominations of women to be on the quarter

The National Women’s History Museum wants to know which woman you would like to see featured on a special series of U.S. quarters.

The person you choose must fit the bill of a “pioneering American woman.” It will be a posthumous honor.

The coins will be out next year.

Submissions can be made here

I nomminated Hedy Lamarr

As a person not from the States I'd like to submit my dubious nomination to Katherine Johnson. This lady sent humanity to the MOON! But nobody gave her any credit because she was a black woman.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

So oppression olympics is explicitly based on comparative experience. If men and women suffer similarly in a particular area, neither are oppressed in that area.

It’s like bemoaning that white people are suffering sexual harassment, so sexual harassment is oppression of white people. There’s no data that I know of to suggest that white people are subject to more sexual harassment than black people, so claiming sexual harassment is “white oppression” is a racist thing that suggests that other races don’t suffer the same thing at similar rates. And that’s being racist.

If you cite something as men’s oppression or women’s oppression, it must be either not suffered by the other group or at least not suffered to the same or similar degree or amount a by the other group, otherwise you’re being sexist.

this reminds me of a feminist protest in Toronto a few weeks back. A mental support group for men affected by suicide was harassed by women because they wouldnt allow women into the support group. Maybe if the protestors took a step back and realized how what theyre doing is part of why men need their own mental health support groups maybe they'd understand how stigma plays a part in men needing support from other men in this scenario.

Seems like a large number of modern feminists are toxic as hell. And they're confused why so many people my age do not identify with the feminist label.

[Nevertopia]

this reminds me of a feminist protest in Toronto a few weeks back. A mental support group for men affected by suicide was harassed by women because they wouldnt allow women into the support group. Maybe if the protestors took a step back and realized how what theyre doing is part of why men need their own mental health support groups maybe they'd understand how stigma plays a part in men needing support from other men in this scenario.

Seems like a large number of modern feminists are toxic as hell. And they're confused why so many people my age do not identify with the feminist label.

some modern feminists cant seem to differentiate between men's rights and women's oppression. Don't they understand men being treated fairly does not equate to supporting mistreatment of women?

[Galloism]

So a guy I used to work closely with (we're in separate groups now) lost a daughter. She died suddenly (not from covid) the other day. I hadn't spoken with him in probably 4 or 5 months, but I called him up.

And we talked for like an hour. Which consisted mostly of him talking and me listening. Which is absolutely fine by me - I often struggle to come up with things to say in situations like this.

And he finished the conversation by saying something interesting. He said it was really nice to talk to another guy about these things. He stated it's all women in his house, and none of them want to hear him talk about any of this. He hadn't had a real conversation with a guy since his daughter died the other day and he felt a lot better to have a real conversation with another guy

I feel like I did my part to help a dude out today who had no outlet for his thoughts and feelings.

Help a guy out today. Listen. That's all you need to do.

[Labbos]

i had submitted rosalind franklin. she took picture 51, the first picture of dna, which proved its shape to be a double helix. she worked with watson and crick, but unlike them was never awarded a nobel prize due to misogyny and her early death. we learned about her in school and all this time i thought she was american, but no, she was born, worked, and died in england. guess that's what happens when you don't pay enough attention in class.

The work that found the structure of DNA was all carried out in England (Cambridge in fact). So it's not surprising that she was English. Of the three people who shared the prize, Crick and Wilkins were British. Watson was the solitary American.

How was misogyny involved in her not receiving the prize? The Nobel committee's rules don't allow posthumous awards.

[Sundiata]

(wrong thread, please delete)

[Celritannia]

It is not a disgrace to be wounded by sin but we've got to get up and keep marching. When a soldier gets wounded in battle they get medals. When we get wounded by sin we've got the sacraments. I'm not the first to draw that comparison but it's interesting.

What do you all think?

Is this related to feminism or MRAs at all?