The NationStates Feminism Thread IV: Fight Like A Girl!

[Giovenith]

Because, even if there was mutual consent, that doesn't erase the underlying bigotry and pseudoscience: that women who have had sex are less “pure” or deserving of marriage, and that a test can confirm that a woman has never had sex (it can't). From what articles have said about the issue, women who ask for these tests comes from violently patriarchal families, and aren't enthusiastically signing up for them.

In what kind of fucked up family does a brother or father beat a sister/daughter? What kind of vicious and disgraceful bullshit is this?

If you're genuinely interested in learning why, I highly recommend, "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. Extremely insightful.

[Luminesa]

Because, even if there was mutual consent, that doesn't erase the underlying bigotry and pseudoscience: that women who have had sex are less “pure” or deserving of marriage, and that a test can confirm that a woman has never had sex (it can't). From what articles have said about the issue, women who ask for these tests comes from violently patriarchal families, and aren't enthusiastically signing up for them.

In what kind of fucked up family does a brother or father beat a sister/daughter? What kind of vicious and disgraceful bullshit is this?

Unfortunately terrible people exist who tear apart their families with abuse and cruelty.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

In what kind of fucked up family does a brother or father beat a sister/daughter? What kind of vicious and disgraceful bullshit is this?

Unfortunately terrible people exist who tear apart their families with abuse and cruelty.

I'm against beating kids. I'm especially against a man beating his daughter, and I think any man who does deserves to be named, shamed and maybe introduced to punishment thats a whole lot worse.

[Stellar Colonies]

r/MenKampf would have a field day with this subreddit

[Vassenor]

UK Judge rules that Revenge Porn is free speech, invokes anti-SLAPP procedures to shut down lawsuit against newspaper that published non-consensual photos.

Not sure if I can properly articulate my feelings about this without breaking the rules.

[Kowani]

UK Judge rules that Revenge Porn is free speech, invokes anti-SLAPP procedures to shut down lawsuit against newspaper that published non-consensual photos.

Not sure if I can properly articulate my feelings about this without breaking the rules.

what the fuck is going on over there

[Stellar Colonies]

UK Judge rules that Revenge Porn is free speech, invokes anti-SLAPP procedures to shut down lawsuit against newspaper that published non-consensual photos.

Not sure if I can properly articulate my feelings about this without breaking the rules.

the hell

Gaetz backed Katie Hill over nude pics leaked without her consent. She calls claims against him ‘reprehensible.’ (Washington Post)

Judge dismisses ex-Rep. Katie Hill’s nude photo claim against Daily Mail, citing First Amendment (Los Angeles Daily News)
^ This one is more up to date, but really pushy about Incognito

[National Capitalist United States]

UK Judge rules that Revenge Porn is free speech, invokes anti-SLAPP procedures to shut down lawsuit against newspaper that published non-consensual photos.

Not sure if I can properly articulate my feelings about this without breaking the rules.

I like free speech, but that is going way too far

[Fahran]

UK Judge rules that Revenge Porn is free speech, invokes anti-SLAPP procedures to shut down lawsuit against newspaper that published non-consensual photos.

Not sure if I can properly articulate my feelings about this without breaking the rules.

It's not dissimilar to the position of the ACLU on pornography, but it's a really stupid legal stance to assume, especially in the UK. And I would hardly call suing a media company for facilitating revenge porn a meritless lawsuit. Those greedy weasels knew full well what they were doing and why.

[Kowani]

oh
i'm sorry
This was a California judge-Yolanda Orozco, at the Los Angeles County Superior Court

A judge cited First Amendment grounds Wednesday in dismissing the Daily Mail as a defendant in former Rep. Katie Hill’s revenge porn suit, which stems from the unauthorized publication of nude images of her. [...]In her written ruling, Judge Yolanda Orozco said she accepted the Daily Mail’s argument that the publication of the photos was a matter of pubic concern. “Here, the intimate images published by (the Daily Mail) spoke to (Hill’s) character and qualifications for her position, as they allegedly depicted (Hill) with a campaign staffer whom she was alleged to have had a sexual affair with and appeared to show (Hill) using a then-illegal drug and displaying a tattoo that was controversial because it resembled a white supremacy symbol that had become an issue during her congressional campaign,” Orozco wrote.

“Accordingly, the images were a matter of public issue or public interest.”

Orozco disagreed with arguments by Hill’s attorneys that the photos were not a matter of public concern.

“(Hill’s) argument that the images are not a matter of public concern because (the Daily Mail) could have simply described the images rather than publishing them is unpersuasive, as the fact that information to be gleaned from an image may be disseminated in an alternative manner does not equate to a finding that the image itself is not a matter of public concern,” the judge wrote.

Hill’s attorney, Carrie Goldberg, said during Wednesday’s hearing that there is something “fundamentally different” about the sharing of nude photos and that the judge’s ruling gives anyone who calls himself or herself a journalist a pass to engage in similar actions, which she said could result in fewer women running for public office. Hill said there are actually 16 articles by the Daily Mail involving her, not just the one in October 2019, and that the last occurred in December 2020. Goldberg also said that the attorneys’ fees Hill is obligated to pay the Daily Mail for losing the motion could force the former representative into bankruptcy.

However, Daily Mail attorney Kelli Sager said the October 2019 publication is what is at issue in the lawsuit and not any subsequent articles or photos. Sager also said Hill and Goldberg should have known of the chance they could lose Wednesday’s motion and have to pay attorneys’ fees when they included a media defendant in the case.

The judge concurred with Sager, saying there is “not a lot I can do about it. Some of our laws have harsh results.”

Orozco also that sharing is “what journalism is all about.”

Heslep has previously denied allegations of abusing Hill, but the suit alleges otherwise.

“This case is about a man …. stopping at nothing to destroy the life of his ex-wife … when she dared end their relationship after more than 15 years of physical, sexual, verbal, emotional and psychological abuse,” Hill’s court papers allege.

Hill, a Democrat, resigned her seat in 2019 after the nude photos of her were published and news emerged that she had a three-way relationship with her husband and a campaign staffer.

She publicly blamed her husband then for the release of the photos. Speaking in Congress in 2019, she decried a “misogynistic culture that gleefully consumed my naked pictures, capitalized on my sexuality and enabled my abusive ex to continue that abuse, this time with the entire country watching.”

Hill alleges in her court papers that she lived in fear that if she ever tried to leave, Heslep would kill them both and their animals.

In October 2019, months after Hill had left her relationship with Heslep for good, RedState.com published “the first in a barrage of articles that included pictures and intimate text messages,” according to Hill’s court papers. “Then the sexually graphic photos were released.”

Hill “suffered extreme emotional distress, attempted suicide and was forced to quit her job, which in this case was serving as the representative of California’s 25th Congressional District, one of the most difficult-to-get jobs in the universe,” her court papers state.

On Dec. 8, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Anne Richardson issued a temporary restraining order directing Heslep to stay at least 100 yards away from his 33-year-old ex-wife, as well as her mother and sister.

The couple officially divorced in October.

[Fahran]

That makes a bit more sense. This does suggest that perhaps we should amend existing laws and interpretations surrounding the 1st Amendment as it relates to pornography, though that might be difficult.

[Stellar Colonies]

That makes a bit more sense. This does suggest that perhaps we should amend existing laws and interpretations surrounding the 1st Amendment as it relates to pornography, though that might be difficult.

It could probably fit under criminal harassment or something similar.

[Fahran]

It could probably fit under criminal harassment or something similar.

They could probably slip out of such a charge pretty easily given the judge in the civil suit ruled it a matter of "public interest."

[Stellar Colonies]

It could probably fit under criminal harassment or something similar.

They could probably slip out of such a charge pretty easily given the judge in the civil suit ruled it a matter of "public interest."

Certainly up there on the list of dumb judicial rulings...

[Kowani]

That makes a bit more sense. This does suggest that perhaps we should amend existing laws and interpretations surrounding the 1st Amendment as it relates to pornography, though that might be difficult.

It could probably fit under criminal harassment or something similar.

thinking it through, you could probably argue that there was no reason to run the images in 16 different stories-but the suit was apparently only about the first one
as 'ran mentioned, the judge ruled it "public interest" (which i'm skeptical about, myself), so you'd have to work around that for anything

[XXURBANXX]

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♛
Further Reading
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...

What is Feminism?
Feminist theory
Feminist philosophy
~
History of Feminism
History of Feminism
"History of Feminism"
The Cynical Historian
~
Types of Feminism

Feminist movements and ideologies

Amazon feminism
Analytical feminism
Anarcha-feminism
Atheist feminism
Black Feminism
Chicana feminism
Christian feminism
Conservative feminism
Cultural feminism
Cyber feminism
Difference feminism
Ecofeminism
Equity and Gender Feminism
Fat feminism
French feminism
Global feminism
Hip-hop feminism
Individualist feminism
Islamic feminism
Jewish feminism
Lesbian feminism
Lipstick feminism
Liberal feminism
Material feminism
Marxist feminism
Mormon feminism
Networked feminism
Neofeminism
New feminism
Postcolonial feminism
Postmodern feminism
Post-structural feminism
Pro-feminism
Pro-life feminism
Radical feminism
Separatist feminism
Sex-positive feminism
Sikh feminism
Socialist feminism
Standpoint feminism
State feminism
Structuralist feminism
Third Wave Feminism
Transfeminism
Transnational feminism

~
Books

Books and texts that explore varying
perspective on both men and women's issues.
By no means a complete list, but a good place
to start.

"The Big Book of Feminism: Big Ideas Simply Explained"
~
"A Vindication of the Rights of Woman" Mary Wollstonecraft
~
"The Second Sex" Simone de Beauvoir
~
"The Feminine Mystique" Betty Friedan
~
"Sexual Politics" Kate Millett
~
"Are Women Human? Astute and Witty Essays on the Role of
Women in Society" Dorothy L. Sayers
~
"The Purity Myth: How America's Obsession with Virginity is Hurting Young
Women" Jessica Valenti
~
"The Myth of Male Power" Warren Farrell
~
"Sex, Power, and Partisanship: How Evolutionary Science Makes
Sense of Our Political Divide" Dr. Hector A. Garcia
~
"The Myth of Mars and Venus: Do Men and Women Really Speak Different
Languages?" Deborah Cameron
~
"Reviving Ophelia: Saving the Selves of Adolescent Girls" Dr. Mary Phipher
~
"Sacred Cows: Is Feminism Relevant To The New Millennium?" Rosalind Coward
~
"The Myth of Matriarchal Prehistory" Cynthia Eller
~
"Gentlemen and Amazons" Cynthia Eller (sequel to above)
~
"Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's Anger" Soraya Chemaly
~
"Women v. Religion: The Case Against Faith—and for Freedom" Karen Garst
~
"Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead" Sheryl Sandberg
~
"Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office" Lois P. Frankel
~
"Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and
Controlling Men" Lundy Bancroft
~
"Abused Men: The Hidden Side of Domestic Violence" Philip W. Cook
~
"Woman-to-Woman Sexual Violence: Does She Call It Rape?" Lori B. Girshick
~
"The Vagina Bible: The Vulva and the Vagina—Separating
the Myth from the Medicine" Dr. Jennifer Gunter

Old threads:
The NationStates Feminist Thread
The NationStates Feminist Thread II
The NationStates Feminist Thread III
The NS Mens Rights Thread

Sidebar is a work in progress.
Suggestions for resources welcome.

Hi there, everybody!

Welcome to the fourth iteration of the NationStates feminism megathread.

Here is where you will find all manner of topics relating to feminism and the issues it concerns itself with.

Discussion of men's rights is also welcome. There used to be a thread specifically for men's rights, but it was rarely used as most relevant talks took place in the feminism thread. So please, feel free to bring those conversations here too — apologies if this is not ideal for some.

This thread is always a work in progress to provide the best resources for those interested in gender rights of all sorts. Please, feel free to suggest books, websites, articles, and documentaries that you feel give insight to be linked and organized in the OP.


What is Feminism?

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Defining feminism has always been a tricky topic. While the concept of women's rights has been around since the beginning of human history (if not always reaching the heights we'd prefer today), the term "feminism" itself is relatively new, and there is some debate as to where women's rights in general and feminism proper meet.

From Wikipedia:

"Charles Fourier, a utopian socialist and French philosopher, is credited with having coined the word "féminisme" in 1837. The words "féminisme" ("feminism") and "féministe" ("feminist") first appeared in France and the Netherlands in 1872, Great Britain in the 1890s, and the United States in 1910. The Oxford English Dictionary lists 1852 as the year of the first appearance of "feminist" and 1895 for "feminism". Depending on the historical moment, culture and country, feminists around the world have had different causes and goals. Most western feminist historians contend that all movements working to obtain women's rights should be considered feminist movements, even when they did not (or do not) apply the term to themselves. Other historians assert that the term should be limited to the modern feminist movement and its descendants. Those historians use the label "protofeminist" to describe earlier movements."

Many people are fond of the tongue-in-cheek definition that feminism is "the radical notion that women are people," but more seriously, feminism is traditionally defined as the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. While this might seem straight forward at first, debate flares among the feminist community about exactly what it means to be "equal," how that is achieved, where gender-based oppression comes from, and who should be responsible for what in the cause. Such debate topics can include:

• Does equality mean that men and women will usually wind up doing the same things, or does it mean that they will do different things but that those things will be equally valued?
  
• What sorts of roles, activities, and expectations empower women, and which hold them back?
  
• Can certain enterprises like religion, atheism, capitalism, socialism, technology, ecology, conservatism, liberalism, etc. aid in women's rights, or are they part of the problem?
  
• How much should feminism combine with other forms of advocacy, such as the LGBT+ movement or racial equality?
  
• Are men oppressed alongside women, or are men the oppressors of women?
  
• Should feminism encompass men's issues too, or should it focus on women while men have their own branch of gender equality advocacy? Do men even need advocacy at all?

Many people throughout the history of feminism and women's rights circles have had different answers to these questions. Often the first thing that a young feminist will be surprised by when getting into discourse is how her/his/their own answers are not considered as "obvious" as they initially believed. History, sociology, psychology, economics, and philosophy all provide avenues to addressing them, and this thread serves as a center to do so.

Feminism has many subsets, a few of which are listed in the sidebar under "Types of Feminism."

Who is a feminist?

Whoever says they are.

There's a lot of grandstanding in the conversation about feminism, a lot of declarations about who is and is not "really" a feminist based largely on self-proclaimed authority. You're not a real feminist if you think this, you're not a real feminist if you don't think that, men can't be feminists just feminist allies, feminist is a title that has to be earned, etc., etc., etc.

While that debate is welcome here (within reason), the fact is that there is no Queen of Feminism or Feminist Police or Official Feminist Bible who has the power to decide those things once and for all. Despite what (self-admittedly) many feminists like to imagine, feminism has been diverse and complicated from the start, there was never this mythic time where those involved in it were all in agreement about what it meant to be a feminist and who qualified as such. Even the suffragettes had strong disagreements with each other about women's role in society and the best angle for achieving suffrage — Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton famously conflicted with Victoria Woodhull. Feminism is just a branch of philosophy like any other, it is free to be interpreted and transformed to evolving values, needs, factors, and agendas. As ever, No True Scotsman (Scotswoman?) looms in judgment of those who think that they hold the invisible guidebook for determining True Feministhood™.

Quotes to set the tone...

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“ I have encountered riotous mobs and have been hung in effigy, but my motto is: Men's rights are nothing more. Women's rights are nothing less.

— Susan B. Anthony

“I do not wish them [women] to have power over men; but over themselves.

— Mary Wollstonecraft

“Misogyny or misandry is not a status or a belief; it is just a sickness.

― M.F. Moonzajer

“In reaction against the age-old slogan, "woman is the weaker vessel," or the still more offensive, "woman is a divine creature," we have, I think, allowed ourselves to drift into asserting that "a woman is as good as a man," without always pausing to think what exactly we mean by that. What, I feel, we ought to mean is something so obvious that it is apt to escape attention altogether, (...) that a woman is just as much an ordinary human being as a man, with the same individual preferences, and with just as much right to the tastes and preferences of an individual. What is repugnant to every human being is to be reckoned always as a member of a class and not as an individual person.

— Dorothy L. Sayers

“All this pitting of sex against sex, of quality against quality; all this claiming of superiority and imputing of inferiority, belong to the private-school stage of human existence where there are 'sides,' and it is necessary for one side to beat another side, and of the utmost importance to walk up to a platform and receive from the hands of the Headmaster himself a highly ornamental pot.

— Virginia Woolf

“Anything may happen when womanhood has ceased to be a protected occupation.

— Virginia Woolf

“If particular care and attention is not paid to the ladies, we are determined to foment a rebellion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any laws in which we have no voice or representation.

— Abigail Adams

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

— Martin Luther King Jr

“I am a men's liberationist (or "masculist") when men's liberation is defined as equal opportunity and equal responsibility for both sexes. I am a feminist when feminism favors equal opportunities and responsibilities for both sexes. I oppose both movements when either says our sex is THE oppressed sex, therefore, "we deserve rights." That's not gender liberation but gender entitlement. Ultimately, I am in favor of neither a women's movement nor a men's movement but a gender transition movement.

— Warren Farrell

“I shall not change my course because those who assume to be better than I desire it.

— Victoria Woodhull

“ Men are from Earth, women are from Earth. Deal with it.

— George Carlin

Women's Resources

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Courtesy of The Joyful Heart Foundation.

International Women's Day is March 8th! Save the date!

Women's Rights Agencies, Groups and Organizations

Feminist Majority Foundation
American Association of University Women
American Medical Women's Association
Association of Libertarian Feminists
Association for Women in Communications
The Center for Women's Business Research
Equal Rights Advocates
Financial Women's Association
Girls Incorporated
League of Women Voters (US)
London Feminist Network
National Association for Female Executives
National Association of Women Business Owners
National Council of Jewish Women
National Council of Negro Women
National Federation of Democratic Women
National Federation of Republican Women
National Organization for Women
National Women's Business Council
UK Feminista
Turkish Republican People's Party, CHP Women's Branch
Women Impacting Public Policy
Women in Technology International
Womens Sports Foundation
Zonta International

Women's Health, Victim Assistance, Support

Abusive Red Flags
Breast Cancer Awareness and Support
Domestic Abuse - Victim Support (UK)
Domestic Shelters - location service
National Ovarian Cancer Coalition
The Joyful Heart Foundation
RAINN (RAINN created and operates the National Sexual Assault Hotline in the US - 800.656.HOPE)
Unchained At Last - Assistance in escaping forced/child marriage, focuses on Americans (while generally focused on women, assistance is open to all people regardless of gender identity)
Tahirih Justice Center - Assistance in escaping forced/child marriage, focuses on immigrants
Single Mother Help

Blogs

A Mighty Girl
Everyday Feminism
Love, Joy, Feminism

Journals and Books

European Journal of Women's Studies
Feminist Press
Psychology of Women Quarterly
Women's Studies Quarterly

Men's Resources

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Courtesy of The Joyful Heart Foundation.

International Men's Day is November 19th! Save the date!

Important note: "A Voice For Men" is an illegal link on NationStates due to their involvement in doxxing. Do not link anything from them on this thread or anywhere else.

Men's Rights Organizations, Agencies, Misc

All India Men's Welfare Association
American Journal of Men's Health | SAGE Journals
American Men's Studies Association
Canadian Association for Equality
The Good Men Project
National Center for Men
National Coalition for Men
Wiki: Men's Rights Movement

Support and discussion (pro-man without being anti-woman):

r/bropill
r/MensLib

Men's Health, Victim Assistance, Suicide Prevention

Dads in Distress (AU)
Domestic Abuse - Victim Support (UK)
The Joyful Heart Foundation
Mankind Initiative (UK)
Men's Health Network
No-Shave November
Pandora's Project
RAINN (RAINN created and operates the National Sexual Assault Hotline in the US - 800.656.HOPE)
Unchained At Last - Assistance in escaping forced/child marriage, focuses on Americans (while generally focused on women, assistance is open to all people regardless of gender identity)
Survivors UK
Us Too - International Prostate Cancer Education & Support Network

Parenting Support

American Coalition for Fathers and Children
Dads Divorce
National Fatherhood Initiative
Rights of Unmarried Fathers (US)
Only Dads
Wiki: Fathers' Rights Movement
Wiki: Father's Rights Movement by Country

Because men's rights isn't as popular as women's rights, unfortunately, many people aren't sure where to begin when researching the topic. The original Men's Rights thread provided these links:

• Recommended reading provided by Ostro. This summarises a number of the issues, some of which are repeated below. If you wish to read only one resource on the issues men face, this is a good choice.
• Mens Rights Subreddit
• Online abuse is not limited by gender: The Guardian
• Politifact on the 77% wage gap - mostly false
• References examining assults by women on their spouses or male partners: an annotated bibliography: Martin S. Fiebert: Department of Psychology: California State University, Long Beach
• Gender disparity in federal criminal cases: University of Michigan
• Recognizing Gender Based Violence Against Civilian Men and Boys in Conflict Situations: R Charli Carpenter: Drake University: Department of Politics and International Relations: Des Moines, IA
• Predictors of Sexual Coercion Against Women and Men: A Multilevel, Multinational Study of University Students: Denise A. Hines: Received: 29 September 2005 / Revised: 12 June 2006 / Accepted: 3 September 2006 / Published online: 27 February 2007: Springer Science - "Results showed that ... the greater the status of women, the higher the level of forced sex against men."
• Persistent Myths in Feminist Scholarship: By Christina Hoff Sommers: Chronicle of Higher Education
• The silenced minority: It’s important to remember men can be victims of domestic abuse, too.: Minnesota Daily Op-Ed
• Feminism Isn't For Men Too - In Fact, It's Not For Women Either: huffingtonpost.co.uk Op-Ed
• One in Three U.S. Teens Experience Dating Violence, Girls More Likely to Get Physical
• I Was Raised To Hate Men And Now I Don’t Know What To Think About Feminism, Jennifer Levin, Jul 31, 2013
• Sexual Victimization in Juvenile Facilities Reported by Youth, 2008-09 - "Approximately 95% of all youth reporting staff sexual misconduct said they had been victimized by female staff. In 2008, 42% of staff in state juvenile facilities were female."
• Predictors of Sexual Coercion Against Women and Men:A Multilevel, Multinational Study of University Students
• News facts: Trafficking of Adult men : European Network Against Human Trafficking
• More than 40% of domestic violence victims are male, report reveals
• 9 Signs We Have a “Boy Crisis”: collegestats.org
• How to Make School Better for Boys: Start by acknowledging that boys are languishing while girls are succeeding: theatlantic.com
• Men: A growing minority? Women earning doctoral degrees in psychology outnumber men three to one. What does this mean for the future of the field - American Psychology Association
• Yes, There’s a War on Boys in Schools: By Caroline Kitchens: National Review

If you're new here, before you post...

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Since this seems to be one of the first places that people new to the site like to visit (likely because of how common strong opinions about feminism are across the rest of the internet), I feel the need to go into a bit more detail about what is expected here that veteran players shouldn't need to be told. If you are new, please make sure that you have read The One Stop Rules Shop before posting on the forums.

"A feminism thread? My time to shine! Feminism is cancer! Come at me, SJWs!"

No.

If I had a nickel for every person who walked into this thread expecting to be the first person here to stand in opposition to a den of rabid "SJW" stereotypes, I'd have a fortune to rival that of the nickels obtained from people complaining about the swastika flag restrictions. It's neither clever nor unique. You are not the first person here to be critical of feminism, you will not be the last, you will almost certainly not be the most memorable.

Also, keep in mind that calling anyone "cancer" or other such colorful memetics (ex, "get back in the kitchen lol!" trolling) will get you disciplined by the Moderators (free speech doesn't exist on this website — yes, we know it's tyrannical, no, we don't care) — this isn't Reddit or the YouTube comment section. Go back to there if you want virtual high-fives for unimaginative "pwning." While on NationStates, you abide by our rules.

And try actually listening to people you disagree with, for once. You might learn something.

"Why are non-feminists allowed here? This is supposed to be a thread for promoting feminism!"

This is a thread for topics about feminism, not solely for feminists. Said topics will include those that are critical of feminism. Obviously feminists are more than welcome here, but this is not an exclusive circle for them. This is a debate thread, not a sanctuary. Keep in mind that not everyone who brands themselves as "anti-feminist" intends that label to mean an opposition to gender equality itself, but rather what they see as the poor handling of gender equality by the individuals who label themselves as the feminist movement. You are free to disagree with that position, but understand that it is a position that people take, and try to keep it in mind in order to debate in good faith.

Similarly to the above warning, just like this is not Reddit or the YouTube comments section, this is not Tumblr, BuzzFeed, or Jezebel either. On this website we are interested in debate and conversation, not in "gotcha!" zingers designed to snappily put critics of feminism in their place while the rest of us go, "You tell 'em, girl!" You're not going to be the next big "best, response, EVER!!" screenshot that gets shared around social justice media, and the whole super sassy, "proud bitch," yawning-and-waving-hand-dismissively-at-the-manbabies routine was already old by thread one — not even the other feminists are impressed by it, and absolutely no one is flustered by it.

You are also not held to any different standard than your opponents. "But I was saying it to a misogynist/alt-right/Nazi/bad guy! Saying bad things to them is a good thing! Come on, this is [current year] for crying out loud!" is not an acceptable excuse for breaking the rules. "Ironic" misandry such as "kill all men" is definitely not welcome. Several a social justice-oriented newbie has been banned in the past for mistakenly thinking that that sort of logic would hold here. There is no "punching up" exception on NationStates — keep your hands to yourself, period.

And try actually listening to people you disagree with, for once. You might learn something.


Thanks to Swith Witherward for running the last three threads, and doing most of the work of compiling these links. Also thanks to Hirota for the original Men's Rights thread and its links, as well as anyone else who as contributed to the gathering and organization of this OP.
Note to OP: Headliner font permalink.

ah FINALLY. good feminists.

"Do men even need advocacy at all?"

Nevermind... not good

[Stellar Colonies]

It could probably fit under criminal harassment or something similar.

They could probably slip out of such a charge pretty easily given the judge in the civil suit ruled it a matter of "public interest."

It could probably fit under criminal harassment or something similar.

thinking it through, you could probably argue that there was no reason to run the images in 16 different stories-but the suit was apparently only about the first one
as 'ran mentioned, the judge ruled it "public interest" (which i'm skeptical about, myself), so you'd have to work around that for anything

When I said this, I was referring more to how revenge porn could be prosecuted in general rather than this specific case involving the Daily Mail, although of course that relates to this case to a degree.

"Public interest" is certainly a highly questionable ruling though, to put it mildly.

...

ah FINALLY. good feminists.

Please, [spoiler=][/spoiler]

[Stellar Colonies]

I never realized how much effort some areas have put into trying to implement a literal bachelor tax...thought it was mostly just a metaphor.

[Jello Biafra]

r/MenKampf would have a field day with this subreddit

Ugh. The initial idea of /r/MenKampf is a good one - making generalizations is bad, even if it's straight white men being generalized. The problem is that you read the comments and you see that they seem to think it's only bad to generalize against straight white men. And I suppose, Jews.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

UK Judge rules that Revenge Porn is free speech, invokes anti-SLAPP procedures to shut down lawsuit against newspaper that published non-consensual photos.

Not sure if I can properly articulate my feelings about this without breaking the rules.

So a protest after a woman was murdered and cut up gets put down by police with aggressive force but revenge porn is free speech?

[Kowani]

UK Judge rules that Revenge Porn is free speech, invokes anti-SLAPP procedures to shut down lawsuit against newspaper that published non-consensual photos.

Not sure if I can properly articulate my feelings about this without breaking the rules.

So a protest after a woman was murdered and cut up gets put down by police with aggressive force but revenge porn is free speech?

Well, no
This is California, so the fuckery of British police is irrelevant

[Borderlands of Rojava]

So a protest after a woman was murdered and cut up gets put down by police with aggressive force but revenge porn is free speech?

Well, no
This is California, so the fuckery of British police is irrelevant

It says UK judge.

[Kowani]

Well, no
This is California, so the fuckery of British police is irrelevant

It says UK judge.

Yes, I know
Vass messed up

[Luminesa]

Unfortunately terrible people exist who tear apart their families with abuse and cruelty.

I'm against beating kids. I'm especially against a man beating his daughter, and I think any man who does deserves to be named, shamed and maybe introduced to punishment thats a whole lot worse.

Well...most sane people are against beating kids, Rojava.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

It says UK judge.

Yes, I know
Vass messed up

Oh