The NationStates Feminism Thread IV: Fight Like A Girl!

[Costa Fierro]

Not hate. You just have unrealistic expectations.

I wouldn't call them unrealistic, just high. Men today don't operate as efficiently as they should, often times shirking their duties as husbands, fathers, and workers.

Big yikes. It's not shirking responsibilities, because there are no inherent responsibilities. There's no responsibility as a man to engage in any of those things in the same way there's no responsibility for women to engage in similar things, and any perceived responsibilities are subjective, not objective.

[Des-Bal]

Says the guy posting on an Internet forum instead of doing any of those things instead.

Not living up to those standards is hypocrisy you know.

Not only is it possible to be right and a hypocrite its possible to fulfill your duties and post on an internet forum. You are wrong and it wouldn't matter if you weren't. He's making terrible arguments you should not be having difficulty knocking them down.

[The Rich Port]

I wouldn't call them unrealistic, just high. Men today don't operate as efficiently as they should, often times shirking their duties as husbands, fathers, and workers.

Big yikes. It's not shirking responsibilities, because there are no inherent responsibilities. There's no responsibility as a man to engage in any of those things in the same way there's no responsibility for women to engage in similar things, and any perceived responsibilities are subjective, not objective.

God forbid men are more than for just breeding, taking care of their female breeders, and being a slave to a corporation.

[Sundiata]

I wouldn't call them unrealistic, just high. Men today don't operate as efficiently as they should, often times shirking their duties as husbands, fathers, and workers.

Big yikes. It's not shirking responsibilities, because there are no inherent responsibilities. There's no responsibility as a man to engage in any of those things in the same way there's no responsibility for women to engage in similar things, and any perceived responsibilities are subjective, not objective.

I completely disagree, while there are choices between the activities we choose, our objective responsibilities do not cease to exist because we are ignorant of them or choose to ignore them. The same applies to all people, men and women.

However, men specifically have duties as fathers (biological, adoptive, or spiritual), husbands, and workers.

[Sundiata]

Big yikes. It's not shirking responsibilities, because there are no inherent responsibilities. There's no responsibility as a man to engage in any of those things in the same way there's no responsibility for women to engage in similar things, and any perceived responsibilities are subjective, not objective.

God forbid men are more than for just breeding, taking care of their female breeders, and being a slave to a corporation.

The purpose of doing all of these things is to love God.

[The Rich Port]

God forbid men are more than for just breeding, taking care of their female breeders, and being a slave to a corporation.

The purpose of doing all of these things is to love God.

If only you were in a position of religious authority in order to make such bold, shitty proclamations.

Are you the new Anti-Pope or something?

[Sundiata]

I wouldn't call them unrealistic, just high. Men today don't operate as efficiently as they should, often times shirking their duties as husbands, fathers, and workers.

Says the guy posting on an Internet forum instead of doing any of those things instead.

Not living up to those standards is hypocrisy you know.

I do.

I work and I'm open to marriage and fatherhood.

[The Rich Port]

Says the guy posting on an Internet forum instead of doing any of those things instead.

Not living up to those standards is hypocrisy you know.

I do.

I work and I'm open to marriage and fatherhood.

2 out of 3 ain't great.

You must not really love God if you're not already married and have fathered a child.

See how recommendations and ideals don't always work too well as a mandate?

... Also. You're a fucking Catholic.

Catholic priests don't necessarily work, and they take vows of CELIBACY.

[Sundiata]

The purpose of doing all of these things is to love God.

If only you were in a position of religious authority in order to make such bold, shitty proclamations.

Are you the new Anti-Pope or something?

No, I am a member of the Catholic Church who practices my faith through the prelature of Opus Dei.

[Sundiata]

I do.

I work and I'm open to marriage and fatherhood.

2 out of 3 ain't great.

You must not really love God if you're not already married and have fathered a child.

See how recommendations and ideals don't always work too well as a mandate?

... Also. You're a fucking Catholic.

Catholic priests don't necessarily work, and they take vows of CELIBACY.

Priests work as priests and they are spiritual fathers, not biological ones.

I love God and you're right, there's a lot more I could be doing in my day to day life to be a good husband and father (biological or adoptive). I am trying though even if my efforts aren't as good as they could be. That said, Opus Dei is a big support to me in this endeavor.

[The Rich Port]

2 out of 3 ain't great.

You must not really love God if you're not already married and have fathered a child.

See how recommendations and ideals don't always work too well as a mandate?

... Also. You're a fucking Catholic.

Catholic priests don't necessarily work, and they take vows of CELIBACY.

Priests work as priests and they are spiritual fathers, not biological ones.

I love God and you're right, there's a lot more I could be doing in my day to day life to be a good husband and father (biological or adoptive). I am trying though even if my efforts aren't as good as they could be. That said, Opus Dei is a big support to me in this endeavor.

Moving the goalposts, nice.

MFW I'm a better member of Opus Dei than you and I'm not even in Opus Dei, nor a Catholic.

Then again, I expected nothing less than elitist posturing from a group who thinks defending sexual misconduct is "sanctifying".

https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2020/07/opu ... for-abuse/

[Sundiata]

Priests work as priests and they are spiritual fathers, not biological ones.

I love God and you're right, there's a lot more I could be doing in my day to day life to be a good husband and father (biological or adoptive). I am trying though even if my efforts aren't as good as they could be. That said, Opus Dei is a big support to me in this endeavor.

Moving the goalposts, nice.

MFW I'm a better member of Opus Dei than you and I'm not even in Opus Dei, nor a Catholic.

Then again, I expected nothing less than elitist posturing from a group who thinks defending sexual misconduct is "sanctifying".

https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2020/07/opu ... for-abuse/

I'm not an elitist and Opus Dei does not defend such conduct.

With respect to marriage and fatherhood, I sincerely have a lot of work to do to meet the standard that Christ put in place for men like myself who aren't called to the priesthood or the celibate life. Hence, in relation to feminism, that means treating women with the utmost respect. That means serving my community, that means forming a family of my own and providing for them.

All of that said, I have a lot of work to do and need to be more efficient just like most men.

[The Rich Port]

Moving the goalposts, nice.

MFW I'm a better member of Opus Dei than you and I'm not even in Opus Dei, nor a Catholic.

Then again, I expected nothing less than elitist posturing from a group who thinks defending sexual misconduct is "sanctifying".

https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2020/07/opu ... for-abuse/

I'm not an elitist and Opus Dei does not defend such conduct.

With respect to marriage and fatherhood, I sincerely have a lot of work to do to meet the standard that Christ put in place for men like myself who aren't called to the priesthood or the celibate life. Hence, in relation to feminism, that means treating women with the utmost respect. That means serving my community, that means forming a family of my own and providing for them.

All of that said, I have a lot of work to do and need to be more efficient just like most men.

Except they literally did. Says right there. But hey what's a few million dollars between a priest and some children, I guess.

>I have to go now, my [church] needs me. Note: Opus Dei died on the way back to Chile to defend more pedophiles.

Yeah, OK buddy, now you're too busy. Also jeez my memes need some work. Poochie would be disappointed.

[Sundiata]

Yeah, OK buddy, now you're too busy. Also jeez my memes need some work. Poochie would be disappointed.

I'm speaking generally, it's not an easy thing to live up to the standard of Christ but it's certainly not something to be given up. That doesn't make me an elitist.

[The Rich Port]

Yeah, OK buddy, now you're too busy. Also jeez my memes need some work. Poochie would be disappointed.

I'm speaking generally, it's not an easy thing to live up to the standard of Christ but it's certainly not something to be given up. That doesn't make me an elitist.

No what makes you an elitist is holding other people to a standard not even you can live up to and aren't even halfway through.

Also, I thought you said you were busy.

[New haven america]

You know, I've noticed a somewhat... strange, or disturbing trend. And that's that a lot of women, not all but a lot, still conflate or mix up femininity and weakness, whether they realize it or not. (Even ardent female and male feminists can be seen exhibiting this behavior)

Like height is probably the most trendy example ATM. The guy has to be taller because the woman with this "Preference" wants to feel: Smaller, tinier, more protected, weaker, etc... or in other words, what is expected of "Femininity" and female gender roles and expectations. Same can be applied to education, age, work, sex, etc... The guy has to have higher education, be older, make more money, be more sexually experienced, etc...

This could also explain why the positivity towards benevolent sexism (For those who don't know or are interested: Sexism directed towards a sex/gender that works in their favor not being a gender/sex is more capable, but because the target gender/sex is seen as weaker or less competent. Think of men having to pay all the bills on a date), while having a negative or hostile opinion towards egalitarian behavior. Often even conflating the 2 so that benevolent sexism is seen as equality while egalitarian behavior is seen as sexism.

Again, I have to throw up the flare of "Not all Women" as there are plenty of example where this is not the case, however, enough do it to be seen as a problematic trend. And tbh, if that is the case like I theorize and worry it is, that's kinda sad.

You can look at this from multiple lenses too, like a feminist lens might see it as a form of internalized misogyny for example.

This "trend" has existed for tens of thousands of years and traces its roots in biological conditioning as women have always relied on men to provide for and protect them and their children. "Internalised misogyny" is biological reality.

That's nice, but we haven't lived in an era where men need to provide and protect for hundreds of years.

So no.

[New haven america]

2 out of 3 ain't great.

You must not really love God if you're not already married and have fathered a child.

See how recommendations and ideals don't always work too well as a mandate?

... Also. You're a fucking Catholic.

Catholic priests don't necessarily work, and they take vows of CELIBACY.

Priests work as priests and they are spiritual fathers, not biological ones.

I love God and you're right, there's a lot more I could be doing in my day to day life to be a good husband and father (biological or adoptive). I am trying though even if my efforts aren't as good as they could be. That said, Opus Dei is a big support to me in this endeavor.

Well then why are you posting on a forum instead of making a Christian Mingle account?

Come on, get a move on, lead by example.

[Sundiata]

I'm speaking generally, it's not an easy thing to live up to the standard of Christ but it's certainly not something to be given up. That doesn't make me an elitist.

No what makes you an elitist is holding other people to a standard not even you can live up to and aren't even halfway through.

Also, I thought you said you were busy.

Not busy.

To elaborate, the standard is universal and not my own; it doesn't just apply to others, but also myself. It's a high one, and it's better to try to maintain a high standard than give up.

[Sundiata]

Priests work as priests and they are spiritual fathers, not biological ones.

I love God and you're right, there's a lot more I could be doing in my day to day life to be a good husband and father (biological or adoptive). I am trying though even if my efforts aren't as good as they could be. That said, Opus Dei is a big support to me in this endeavor.

Well then why are you posting on a forum instead of making a Christian Mingle account?

Come on, get a move on, lead by example.

Opus Dei does enough for its members in this respect.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Is it too much to ask that everyone just treat people as people? Drop the labels and ideologies and think about it for a second. What do we want? Plenty of feminists/MRAs/whoever else always talk and defame and stuff, but have we taken time to think about what the goal is? For a lot of us, the goal is a free and equal society. Where we differ is in what we consider society to be like now, whether we have achieved freedom or equality, and how we will get there if we haven't.

I'm going to offer my opinions. I don't think we have achieved freedom or equality, but I'm not about to draw lines in the sand over who is in the right or the wrong. I don't know anything about this oppression or internalized whatnot, but I know a decent human being and a less than decent human being when I see one. My idea for a free and equal society is quite obvious. Dismantle capitalism and magically handwave away any problems that haven't been solved through the magic of communism.

[The Rich Port]

So, something I wanted to bring up for y'all.

About the Vtuber Revolution XD

I honestly don't understand the "feminist" backlash against Vtubers.

Judging from what I have seen of other female streamers, Vtubers aren't only better at the games they play, but in the end it doesn't really matter because they have more personality and are much nicer and chiller to their fans and even their detractors.

Me and my boyfriend love Vtubers (with Korone and Amelia Watson being our favs ) and we honestly don't get it.

While I get the feeling even NationStates doesn't get it and loves Vtubers too, I also get the feeling there's always at least one person who is against for some silly reason and I wanna know!

[Knica Eas]

Moving the goalposts, nice.

MFW I'm a better member of Opus Dei than you and I'm not even in Opus Dei, nor a Catholic.

Then again, I expected nothing less than elitist posturing from a group who thinks defending sexual misconduct is "sanctifying".

https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2020/07/opu ... for-abuse/

I'm not an elitist and Opus Dei does not defend such conduct.

With respect to marriage and fatherhood, I sincerely have a lot of work to do to meet the standard that Christ put in place for men like myself who aren't called to the priesthood or the celibate life. Hence, in relation to feminism, that means treating women with the utmost respect. That means serving my community, that means forming a family of my own and providing for them.

All of that said, I have a lot of work to do and need to be more efficient just like most men.

I find this truly admirable.

[Nilrahrarfan]

So, something I wanted to bring up for y'all.

About the Vtuber Revolution XD

I honestly don't understand the "feminist" backlash against Vtubers.

Judging from what I have seen of other female streamers, Vtubers aren't only better at the games they play, but in the end it doesn't really matter because they have more personality and are much nicer and chiller to their fans and even their detractors.

Me and my boyfriend love Vtubers (with Korone and Amelia Watson being our favs ) and we honestly don't get it.

While I get the feeling even NationStates doesn't get it and loves Vtubers too, I also get the feeling there's always at least one person who is against for some silly reason and I wanna know!

Same reason they don't like Uzaki-Chan: Likely Anti-Japanese Racism. They're still living in World War II.

[The Rich Port]

So, something I wanted to bring up for y'all.

About the Vtuber Revolution XD

I honestly don't understand the "feminist" backlash against Vtubers.

Judging from what I have seen of other female streamers, Vtubers aren't only better at the games they play, but in the end it doesn't really matter because they have more personality and are much nicer and chiller to their fans and even their detractors.

Me and my boyfriend love Vtubers (with Korone and Amelia Watson being our favs ) and we honestly don't get it.

While I get the feeling even NationStates doesn't get it and loves Vtubers too, I also get the feeling there's always at least one person who is against for some silly reason and I wanna know!

Same reason they don't like Uzaki-Chan: Likely Anti-Japanese Racism. They're still living in World War II.

I actually sincerely doubt that's the actual reason. Opposition to Uzaki-chan was also localized heavily in Japan, with claims of pedophilic design of the character... Which, yeah, make no sense, but that's why we research and ask questions, dumb as they are.

From what I understand about opposition to Vtubers, they believe Vtubers will destroy the landscape of female streamers and YouTubers via saturation and an unrealistic standard of female beauty.

Considering that a lot of the Vtubers are some kind of non-human humanoid creature such as a dog girl or a shark girl or a dragon girl... I mean they're not wrong but they're wrong for a different reason.

[Nilrahrarfan]

Same reason they don't like Uzaki-Chan: Likely Anti-Japanese Racism. They're still living in World War II.

I actually sincerely doubt that's the actual reason. Opposition to Uzaki-chan was also localized heavily in Japan, with claims of pedophilic design of the character... Which, yeah, make no sense, but that's why we research and ask questions, dumb as they are.

From what I understand about opposition to Vtubers, they believe Vtubers will destroy the landscape of female streamers and YouTubers via saturation and an unrealistic standard of female beauty.

Considering that a lot of the Vtubers are some kind of non-human humanoid creature such as a dog girl or a shark girl or a dragon girl... I mean they're not wrong but they're wrong for a different reason.

There's a summary for that
"Can lead to paranoia that perfectly normal activities (such as a completely innocent Intergenerational Friendship or even normal parent-child affection) could be misinterpreted as pedophilia."
"The hysteria leads to people taking the issue less seriously, making it easier for real pedophiles to get away with it."
Source: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... /PaedoHunt