The NationStates Feminism Thread IV: Fight Like A Girl!

[Giovenith]

UK abolishes tax on menstrual products

Cheerio!

[Fahran]

It really was a nitpick, as it was blatantly obvious that Cel was not just meaning the bedroom when making that reference. If it truly wasn't a nitpick, then you accidentally managed to interpret it in the most spurious manner imaginable.

It's also blatantly obvious that I wasn't simply referring to bedrooms when I discussed how sexual expression and behavior are facets of culture that are shaped by social and material conditions - that was a singular example that involved a bit of word-play. The development of more individualized living spaces, including individual bedrooms where you didn't have people watching you 24/7, absolutely had an impact on sexual expression and behavior in much the same way that imposing strict rules on men and women intermingling or having access to reliable contraception absolutely has an impact on sexual expression and behavior.

Sex isn't just random atomized individuals doing whatever they please because random atomized individuals as conceived of by enlightenment thinkers don't really exist. People are very much products of the societies that birth them to the extent that we can observe often radically different sexual expression and behaviors between societies. Really, I have no idea why you grasped onto this as a point of contention. Do you believe the medieval English or French conceived of sex in the same way that we do at present? Did they have the same attitudes? Do you think that the development of material prosperity to the extent that people could segregate living spaces and have more privacy within the household may have changed sexual behaviors, expression, and attitudes?

Because that's what I'm attempting to point out.

[Fahran]

UK abolishes tax on menstrual products

This is great news!

[New haven america]

The implicit assumption here that sex only takes place in the bedroom is just wrong.

I'm flabberghasted by this revelation and have the vapors now. Alas! How scandalous!

This doesn't really refute the argument. It's a nitpick that largely ignores the reality that medieval people probably had far fewer places to get their freak on in peace than people living in the 21st century. It's not impractical to take a hardline stance on adultery if you can expect to catch someone in the act. For aristocratic women in particular, carrying on an affair would have been challenging. Your husband's cousin or whatever was probably following you around as one of your attendants and companions 90% of the time and you'd best believe she's going to tell him if you start playing house with that cute stable boy who likes horses as much as you do.

Actually, affairs were super common among European nobility.

Marry for money, have an affair for love and all that jazz.

[The New California Republic]

UK abolishes tax on menstrual products

Scotland actually provides them for free, so the removal of the tax actually has less of an impact here.

[Kowani]

UK abolishes tax on menstrual products

Scotland actually provides them for free, so the removal of the tax actually has less of an impact here.

spoilsport -_-

[The New California Republic]

Scotland actually provides them for free, so the removal of the tax actually has less of an impact here.

spoilsport -_-

One would hope that it happens UK-wide at some point, but it might be a ways off yet.

[Suriyanakhon]

UK abolishes tax on menstrual products

Scotland actually provides them for free, so the removal of the tax actually has less of an impact here.

That makes sense, they're an important hygiene item.

[Fahran]

Actually, affairs were super common among European nobility.

Marry for money, have an affair for love and all that jazz.

I never stated that extramarital affairs didn't happen. I stated that the opportunities for extramarital affairs, especially for aristocratic women, would have been severely limited compared to today due to the structure of medieval aristocratic households and the relative lack of privacy. Again, it's a lot easier to enforce strict attitudes regarding the sexual expression and behavior of women in particular if you have a bunch of your female relatives around your wife much of the time.

Source

And, just to be clear, I'm not advocating that we adopt a medieval standard of sexual ethics. That'd be dumb. I was using the development of segregated living spaces and family households as an illuminating example of how disparate social and material factors can impact sexual expression and behavior in a society. Another relevant factor, and one that I haven't mentioned as of yet, was the prominence of religion and the notion that marital infidelity on the part of a wife uprooted inheritance laws and constituted a grave sin. Which means you not only have fewer opportunities for cheating and concealing that you had cheated, but society, on the whole, had more of an incentive for dealing with such breaches sternly.

This development, towards segregated living spaces and greater household privacy, alongside the advent of reliable contraception, did quite a lot to create our modern conception of sexuality. Really, we probably enjoy more privacy than anyone in 11th century England or France. And that's shaped our attitudes towards sexuality in discernible ways.

[Suriyanakhon]

Your husband's cousin or whatever was probably following you around as one of your attendants and companions 90% of the time and you'd best believe she's going to tell him if you start playing house with that cute stable boy who likes horses as much as you do.

This is strangely specific.

[Fahran]

This is strangely specific.

I just wanted to mention horses once today.

I swear I'm not secretly Eleanor of Aquitaine or Godiva. I'm much too Jewish to pull off those roles convincingly.

[Giovenith]

We have a new update on our Topics of Interest!

Read all about the new wave of black young women playing the lead role in the beloved and timeless "Nutcracker" ballet, and the courageous woman who cared for hundreds of abandoned gay men suffering from AIDs when no one else would.

[Stellar Colonies]

Your husband's cousin or whatever was probably following you around as one of your attendants and companions 90% of the time and you'd best believe she's going to tell him if you start playing house with that cute stable boy who likes horses as much as you do.

This is strangely specific.

lol

[Fahran]

We have a new update on our Topics of Interest!

Read all about the new wave of black young women playing the lead role in the beloved and timeless "Nutcracker" ballet, and the courageous woman who cared for hundreds of abandoned gay men suffering from AIDs when no one else would.

Gio, you're my favorite OP. I always feel better informed when I read these updates.

[Saiwania]

Scotland actually provides them for free, so the removal of the tax actually has less of an impact here.

That doesn't sit right with me at all. Where is the money coming from to buy/manufacture the feminine hygiene products? Its obviously not free but perhaps very cheap/low cost depending on what materials its made from. The women out there should pay for it themselves or find ways to do without, given that its not that expensive.

People really don't get $100+/year to spend on it on their own without help? The cost of food is much more and all people have the burden of getting hungry. I'd object to paying more tax just to fund that. That is $300 million dollars we're talking here. Not a good use of the money in my view.

[Inner Firatrundessia]

We have a new update on our Topics of Interest!

Read all about the new wave of black young women playing the lead role in the beloved and timeless "Nutcracker" ballet, and the courageous woman who cared for hundreds of abandoned gay men suffering from AIDs when no one else would.

I never understood why people have strong opinions on this. The ballet's characters are NOT historical characters, it's not like their skin color is the official nutcracker 'canon' or whatever

[Giovenith]

Gio, you're my favorite OP. I always feel better informed when I read these updates.

Glad you like it. I think it's important to have reminders of how these ideas and issues interact with the real world, something that can get lost when you get too sucked into the world of on-paper theory and debate.

[Cordel One]

UK abolishes tax on menstrual products

Scotland actually provides them for free, so the removal of the tax actually has less of an impact here.

Someone always does it better, but it's still a big step forward for England and Wales. Prices should go up regardless due to Brexit, but good news is good news.

[Thepeopl]

Scotland actually provides them for free, so the removal of the tax actually has less of an impact here.

That doesn't sit right with me at all. Where is the money coming from to buy/manufacture the feminine hygiene products? Its obviously not free but perhaps very cheap/low cost depending on what materials its made from. The women out there should pay for it themselves or find ways to do without, given that its not that expensive.

People really don't get $100+/year to spend on it on their own without help? The cost of food is much more and all people have the burden of getting hungry. I'd object to paying more tax just to fund that. That is $300 million dollars we're talking here. Not a good use of the money in my view.

Find ways to do without? How would that work?
Also if one is poor, they'll won't buy the menstrual cup. Which costs about 20 euros. For 1 cup. It's better for the environment if all women would switch to reusable products, minimizing their footprint. But if you are poor the choice between 2 euros or 20 euros will be a no brainer. Even if you have to pay 2 euros every month for 30 years. And that's assuming one only uses the cheapest pads and have a light/ normal flow. And not including the costs of leaking. And the costs of spotting.
Why do I promote menstrual cup instead of all other reusable options? Because cleaning the menstrual cup costs less water than washing the reusable pads.

[Fahran]

That doesn't sit right with me at all. Where is the money coming from to buy/manufacture the feminine hygiene products?

Presumably from the financing activities of companies that manufacture tampons and pads as well as from the tax payers to cover their expenses.

Its obviously not free but perhaps very cheap/low cost depending on what materials its made from. The women out there should pay for it themselves or find ways to do without, given that its not that expensive.

Do you know how much a box of tampons costs and how many come in a box? Are you aware of how many tampons the average woman uses during menstruation? Do you know what happens when women go without tampons or other sanitary products? Or are you simply assuming all of this information?

People really don't get $100+/year to spend on it on their own without help? The cost of food is much more and all people have the burden of getting hungry. I'd object to paying more tax just to fund that. That is $300 million dollars we're talking here. Not a good use of the money in my view.

Have you considered perhaps that we ought to address hunger and homelessness as well, especially for children, people with mental illness, veterans, people who are incapacitated, and people who work full-time but aren't compensated adequately enough to keep their families fed and sheltered?

[New haven america]

Scotland actually provides them for free, so the removal of the tax actually has less of an impact here.

That doesn't sit right with me at all. Where is the money coming from to buy/manufacture the feminine hygiene products? Its obviously not free but perhaps very cheap/low cost depending on what materials its made from. The women out there should pay for it themselves or find ways to do without, given that its not that expensive.

People really don't get $100+/year to spend on it on their own without help? The cost of food is much more and all people have the burden of getting hungry. I'd object to paying more tax just to fund that. That is $300 million dollars we're talking here. Not a good use of the money in my view.

Taxes and workplace regulations.

Oh wait, forgot, I'm talking to the person who doesn't know what temp workers are.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

UK abolishes tax on menstrual products

About bloody time (no pun intended).

[Auzkhia]

People who menstruate should have free products for that, like they cannot really help it? I'm no gynecologist but I don't think you could hold in uterine lining.

[Nuroblav]

UK abolishes tax on menstrual products

Based UK? Damn.

But seriously about time tbh.

[Auzkhia]

UK abolishes tax on menstrual products

Based UK? Damn.

But seriously about time tbh.

Which oddly enough came about because of Brexit.