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The NationStates Feminism Thread IV: Fight Like A Girl!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Frostnia
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Postby Frostnia » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:08 pm

Centai Mal wrote:
Frostnia wrote:
What I particularly like about them is that they're not anti-masculinity; they want to make the concept better, and to try and combat toxic ideas that may have settled in men's heads, not tear down the entire concept as evil. They're proud of being men and "bros", but don't let that get in the way of healthy relationships and emotions.

I’m gonna look into that, then. I’m pretty proud of being masculine (even if I have my more feminine traits) and I like the focus on healthy masculinity


Real bros don't judge each other for choosing healthy lifestyles for themselves 8)
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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:01 pm

Giovenith wrote:
Forsher wrote:Ah, the black hole of interesting topics better suited for individual discussion returns.

Thus far the thread consists almost entirely of people praising a post full of external links and suggestions to go offsite. Which while compromising the blackhole metaphor rather says it all.
...
Damn, is this seriously the most interesting on topic post in here so far? Ugh.


I'm so sorry the thread is only four hours old, I'll try harder to time travel next time.


Does it offend you to suggest a thread that has three times turned out one way is already on its way to becoming the same again?

Does it offend you to point out there really isn't much I can do with a thread that consists of a series of panegyrics? (And I tried anyway.)

Good God.
Last edited by Forsher on Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:41 pm

Centai Mal wrote:Can I ask what y'all think of the Men's Lib movement? I'm in it, and it generally, at leas on the reddit platform, seems to be pretty pro-feminist

Interesting idea, a more wholesome or well intentioned version of the MRA movement, but falls into the same modern feminist pratfall that everything is the fault of 1 sex or the other (In this case all of the problems presented there are generally caused by men or the infamous "Patriarchy") that ends up being just as destructive as toxic masculine or toxic feminine behaviors.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:44 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Centai Mal wrote:Can I ask what y'all think of the https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/ movement? I'm in it, and it generally, at leas on the reddit platform, seems to be pretty pro-feminist

It's not a good thing for men to get so careless with respect to their duties as men. These men would be better served joining the Knights of Columbus.

I'm also glad to see that you're a fellow Catholic.

The only duty people have to each other is to treat each other with general respect/honesty/empathy.

You aren't owed anything or required to do anything simply based on what's between you're legs.
Last edited by New haven america on Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cekoviu
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:03 pm

oh god, why wouldn't you just let this monstrosity die gio
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:11 pm

Centai Mal wrote:Can I ask what y'all think of the Men's Lib movement? I'm in it, and it generally, at leas on the reddit platform, seems to be pretty pro-feminist


Menslibwatch covers how it's limited thanks to it's pro-feminist outlook. There's several examples of the menslib movements failure to truly advocate for men and its tendency to be quicker to sympathize with women and their point of view, to the point that one of their founders apologized to a female rapist for her negative sexual experience until it was pointed out by MRAs that as she described it, she raped the man.

There's the issue of them banning topics that necessitate criticism of feminist status quos, such as banning discussion of legal parental surrender.

They've banned comparison of MGM and FGM and take the stance the two are not comparable, despite this being both factually untrue and showing that their priorities are in defending feminism, not advocating for men.

And so on, and so on. It's not a positive space for men.

It's also notable that the founders were AgainstMensRights contributors and spent about 5 years denying mens issues existed at all, slandering MRAs, and taking the most radical feminist positions possible. Only when mens issues started to get more mainstream and criticism of feminism mounted did they feel the need to found the reddit.

I think you can glean from that their motives are chiefly misandrist and they founded it as a form of damage control and to split the mens movement. If they genuinely cared, it would have existed before mens rights or shortly after it. Not years later after substantial backlash to feminism on this topic, and not founded by a bunch of open misandrists.

Here is an example of it being a toxic space for men:
https://old.reddit.com/r/MensLibWatch/c ... are_trash/

And the aforementioned earlier thread of male feminsits discussing how feminist spaces make them ill and give them mental health issues due to the constant abuse from female feminists:
https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... m_ashamed/
(Again. This is male feminist allies discussing this, but they don't seem to want to make the jump to "Because it's a hate movement and we shouldn't take our abusers seriously when they claim to be pro-equality).

Additionally, menslib spreads frequent lies and propaganda about several topics, using statistics that erase male victims, as well as telling lies about the MRM and what it entails.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:16 pm

Cekoviu wrote:oh god, why wouldn't you just let this monstrosity die gio

Because life is suffering.
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Stellar Colonies
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:32 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Centai Mal wrote:Can I ask what y'all think of the Men's Lib movement? I'm in it, and it generally, at leas on the reddit platform, seems to be pretty pro-feminist


Menslibwatch covers how it's limited thanks to it's pro-feminist outlook. There's several examples of the menslib movements failure to truly advocate for men and its tendency to be quicker to sympathize with women and their point of view, to the point that one of their founders apologized to a female rapist for her negative sexual experience until it was pointed out by MRAs that as she described it, she raped the man.

There's the issue of them banning topics that necessitate criticism of feminist status quos, such as banning discussion of legal parental surrender.

They've banned comparison of MGM and FGM and take the stance the two are not comparable, despite this being both factually untrue and showing that their priorities are in defending feminism, not advocating for men.

And so on, and so on. It's not a positive space for men.

It's also notable that the founders were AgainstMensRights contributors and spent about 5 years denying mens issues existed at all, slandering MRAs, and taking the most radical feminist positions possible. Only when mens issues started to get more mainstream and criticism of feminism mounted did they feel the need to found the reddit.

I think you can glean from that their motives are chiefly misandrist and they founded it as a form of damage control and to split the mens movement. If they genuinely cared, it would have existed before mens rights or shortly after it. Not years later after substantial backlash to feminism on this topic, and not founded by a bunch of open misandrists.

Here is an example of it being a toxic space for men:
https://old.reddit.com/r/MensLibWatch/c ... are_trash/

And the aforementioned earlier thread of male feminsits discussing how feminist spaces make them ill and give them mental health issues due to the constant abuse from female feminists:
https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... m_ashamed/
(Again. This is male feminist allies discussing this, but they don't seem to want to make the jump to "Because it's a hate movement and we shouldn't take our abusers seriously when they claim to be pro-equality).

It is odd how circumcisions inflicted performed upon infant boys are not recognized as a violation of their bodily autonomy, like denying abortion is for (hopefully) adult women.

The procedure should really be banned until the patient's age of consent, except for when it is medically necessary without less drastic alternatives.
Last edited by Stellar Colonies on Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:05 pm

New haven america wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:oh god, why wouldn't you just let this monstrosity die gio

Because life is suffering.


It builds character.
That it Could be What it Is, Is What it Is

Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

The normie life is heteronormie

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:08 pm

New haven america wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:oh god, why wouldn't you just let this monstrosity die gio

Because life is suffering.


Being meguka is suffering.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

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Giovenith
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Postby Giovenith » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:37 pm

Cekoviu wrote:oh god, why wouldn't you just let this monstrosity die gio


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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:45 pm

Forsher wrote:
New haven america wrote:Because life is suffering.


It builds character.

Are you Calvin’s dad?
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Centai Mal
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Postby Centai Mal » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:30 pm

Giovenith wrote:
Centai Mal wrote:I’m gonna look into that, then. I’m pretty proud of being masculine (even if I have my more feminine traits) and I like the focus on healthy masculinity


What would you say your trait make-up looks like? What do you like to do?


I'd honestly say about 70-30 ratio, with 70% of my traits being more masculine.

I'm an astrophysics major and a hockey player, with a penchant for sports, and a love of fishing, hiking, and building things, but I also love to sew (I'm making masks right now, but at college, I sew quilts for babies in the NICU) and knit, and I really love Broadway. I'm also an animal person, as the very proud (and doting) dad of a rabbit, hopefully the first of a few.

I happen to be trans, so I'm working through a lot of unhealthy behaviors I unconsciously (and consciously) picked up in an attempt to be perceived as more masculine - a lot of the aggression and the need to be assertive and in control are not necessarily healthy, even if they do have their place. Been in one too many fistfights to think they're healthy, even if they do serve a role to me
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Rojava Free State
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:49 pm

Centai Mal wrote:
Frostnia wrote:
What I particularly like about them is that they're not anti-masculinity; they want to make the concept better, and to try and combat toxic ideas that may have settled in men's heads, not tear down the entire concept as evil. They're proud of being men and "bros", but don't let that get in the way of healthy relationships and emotions.

I’m gonna look into that, then. I’m pretty proud of being masculine (even if I have my more feminine traits) and I like the focus on healthy masculinity


I'm masculine in a way only hispanics, arabs, italians and southeast asians seem capable of. That machismo with a tiny sprinkling of feminine traits, and women love it.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Centai Mal
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Ex-Nation

Postby Centai Mal » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:08 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Centai Mal wrote:I’m gonna look into that, then. I’m pretty proud of being masculine (even if I have my more feminine traits) and I like the focus on healthy masculinity


I'm masculine in a way only hispanics, arabs, italians and southeast asians seem capable of. That machismo with a tiny sprinkling of feminine traits, and women love it.

Italian masculinity, you get it. Men go nuts for it too

Either that, or the fact I can cook good Italian food, and can sew my work pants back together
“Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.”

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Giovenith
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Postby Giovenith » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:12 pm

I'm a cis woman. I've got an odd mixture myself.

On one hand, I'm a sucker for rainbows, unicorns, and glitter. On the other hand, I'm very uncomfortable wearing dresses and skirts, and not very romantic. It's also been pointed out to me that the way I speak online sounds "masculine," i.e., speaking with agency, hence a lot of people assuming I'm a guy if they don't know better.

Weirdly though, it's always like... a girly guy. People assume I'm like a nerdy, sensitive little boy, yet not an actual girl. It's odd how these things work.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:53 pm

Hey Giovenith, you did a nice job on the OP. You worked hard on it, and it shows.
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Shinol
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How is gynostan not on here

Postby Shinol » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:09 am

Literally the most feminist nation ever. And it ain’t even on here. There motto is literally “each of her needs each according to his ability” literally the king I mean queen of NS feminism

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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:28 am

JK Rowling is what I and many other people might consider as being in the radically liberal "Feminazi" camp. There is this rumor going around that she might be starting to "see the light" more from my perspective. The word going around is that she's become more anti-trans in opinion. She's become a TERF, unless people are mistaken by having the wrong interpretation from recent comments that were made.

https://indianexpress.com/article/enter ... w-6457082/
Last edited by Saiwania on Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:34 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Purple Rats
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Postby Purple Rats » Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:02 pm

Saiwania wrote:JK Rowling is what I and many other people might consider as being in the radically liberal "Feminazi" camp. There is this rumor going around that she might be starting to "see the light" more from my perspective. The word going around is that she's become more anti-trans in opinion. She's become a TERF, unless people are mistaken by having the wrong interpretation from recent comments that were made.

https://indianexpress.com/article/enter ... w-6457082/


I don't think she is becoming TERF, I think she has been TERF all the time, she just express her views now more.

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Giovenith
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Postby Giovenith » Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:06 pm

Galloism wrote:Hey Giovenith, you did a nice job on the OP. You worked hard on it, and it shows.


Thanks Gallo.

Shinol wrote:Literally the most feminist nation ever. And it ain’t even on here. There motto is literally “each of her needs each according to his ability” literally the king I mean queen of NS feminism


The OP is there to give resources on the ideology, not highlight feminist players. If you're wondering why that person hasn't posted here yet, you're free to ask them yourself.
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Byeclase
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Ex-Nation

Postby Byeclase » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:33 pm

-Amazon feminism. Just national rights and culture.
-Analytical feminism. Bourgeois individualism.
-Anarcha-feminism. Anarchist.
-Atheist feminism. Denounciation of machismo in religions.

Ethnic, they're not real trends just how they relate to ethnicities:
-Black Feminism, Chicana feminism.

Religious feminism based in theology, they're provable false religions, but if they were real their gods should still have to be overthrown for being socdems/liberals/conservatives, that means, they didn't seek to program a free world and relied on the "free will" of the people to justify their divine nature:
-Islamic feminism, Jewish feminism, Christian feminism, Mormon feminism, Sikh feminism, New feminism.

-Conservative feminism. When your uncle calls himself feminist to "integrate" in the family as a last resource to hide his machismo.
-Cultural feminism. Essentialism.
-Cyber feminism. Futuristic gender abolitionism with morphological freedom.
-Difference feminism. Essentialism, strenghtens gender roles as natural.
-Ecofeminism. Idealist, they just mix two concepts together and try hard to reconciliate them.
-Equity and Gender Feminism. Just rightism, antifeminism, denying oppression of women.
-Fat feminism. Ill-informed people about fatness, the problem isn't accepting fat people here, the problem if glorification of bad habits with pseudoscience.
-French feminism. No comment.
-Global feminism. No comment.
-Hip-hop feminism. Not a real trend, how can we call a trend just because the message is spread through a genre of music?
Individualist feminism. Rightism, but to the right of socdem individualism, extreme capitalist liberalism.
-Lesbian feminism. Unrelated.
-Lipstick feminism. No comment.
-Liberal feminism. Reformism, individualism, old, unfinished critique, idealist and even "ancap sex tendencies".
-Material feminism. Taken by revisionists.
-Marxist feminism. Taken by eurocommunist revisionists.
-Networked feminism. There are better uses of collective organization.
-Neofeminism. Conservatism, strenghtens essentialism and gender roles.
-Postcolonial feminism. Not a real trend.
-Postmodern feminism. Catch-all label.
-Post-structural feminism. It needs to recognize that discrimination based in body is real independently of if we know it's false or shouldn't exist.
-Pro-feminism. The identitarian pitch enhances conservative women "just because they're women".
-Pro-life feminism. Rightism.
-Radical feminism. TERFism.
-Separatist feminism. Impatience and hopelessness for the goals.
-Sex-positive feminism. The problem is that both sex negative and sex positive feminism are bad in their own way. The reason is that they isolate the industrial sex practices from capitalism, thus they either reach to permissive conclusions of aggression (sex positive) or oppressive conclusions of voluntary and harmless acts (sex negative).
-Socialist feminism. Taken by revisionists.
-Standpoint feminism. Sometimes it can enhance conservative women through identitarianism.
-State feminism. Not a real trend.
-Structuralist feminism. Underplays the role of leaderships.
-Third Wave Feminism. Catch-all label.
-Transfeminism. It'd need to be mixed with class struggle and national liberation, but class is still the principal one because it determines the whole ideological structure which "trickles down" to all society. Some of them also reject abolitionism, after looking at those who look for their "services" it's clear it's just liberalism and "economically planned women" would be an old mentality and weird to propose in a classless society.
-Transnational feminism. Downplays the importance of class equating it with other axes. Partialization of struggle.


The thread spreads bourgeois feminism and it can be seen in such names of the orgs like "business", "financial", etc. They just seek to enrich themselves like men do but it's the same selfish mentality that keeps this system of exploitation going on. This isn't surprising, the sufragettes, the feminist movement emerged as bourgeois and we're still capitalism, some want to deceive the people to fight for exploiter queens and the rich. Actually the feminist term emerged as derogatory because "women were trying to benefit women more than men" in the eyes of Alexandre Dumas instead of Fourier.

The bourgeoisie distorts the 8 day, saying "women's day". But actually it's the working women day, proposed by the leninist Clara Zetkin.
Capitalism consisted in making woman a complement of men in the house, subjugating intellectually women to the will of men and economically too through this division of work.

MRAs negate the historical structure of capitalism and its ideological masks in their role of subjugating women. They then point out individual cases of abuses against men and even structural ones like the deaths in the army. But all those "deaths" were created by the same structure inherited by a development of religion as ideology and the power of men, they created all those, the "men don't cry" is still an issue of being putting down the oppressive structure against women and not just a "men association against abuses". So, the role of MRAs is rightist and conservative even if they try to paint themselves as "pro-feminist"; because radicals already address that and know it originates from the same system which says women should do chores and "be flowers" while men have "to be tanks". Both the sanctification of toxic masculinity and "female weakness" are just faces of conservatism and rightism. If the male has been abused there's no need to push a whole "movement" and which is reserved only to men. A comrade of any kind, no matter the gender, can support the abused male; as well as if the abused one was a women, but the role of association in the latter is still "progressive" so to speak, even if it delays revolution through partialization of struggle, since the historically subjugation of women still exist, and that subjugation includes marking men as weak, it's inside the same struggle.

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King of the Incels
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Founded: May 25, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby King of the Incels » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:22 pm

Byeclase wrote:
-Amazon feminism. Just national rights and culture.
-Analytical feminism. Bourgeois individualism.
-Anarcha-feminism. Anarchist.
-Atheist feminism. Denounciation of machismo in religions.

Ethnic, they're not real trends just how they relate to ethnicities:
-Black Feminism, Chicana feminism.

Religious feminism based in theology, they're provable false religions, but if they were real their gods should still have to be overthrown for being socdems/liberals/conservatives, that means, they didn't seek to program a free world and relied on the "free will" of the people to justify their divine nature:
-Islamic feminism, Jewish feminism, Christian feminism, Mormon feminism, Sikh feminism, New feminism.

-Conservative feminism. When your uncle calls himself feminist to "integrate" in the family as a last resource to hide his machismo.
-Cultural feminism. Essentialism.
-Cyber feminism. Futuristic gender abolitionism with morphological freedom.
-Difference feminism. Essentialism, strenghtens gender roles as natural.
-Ecofeminism. Idealist, they just mix two concepts together and try hard to reconciliate them.
-Equity and Gender Feminism. Just rightism, antifeminism, denying oppression of women.
-Fat feminism. Ill-informed people about fatness, the problem isn't accepting fat people here, the problem if glorification of bad habits with pseudoscience.
-French feminism. No comment.
-Global feminism. No comment.
-Hip-hop feminism. Not a real trend, how can we call a trend just because the message is spread through a genre of music?
Individualist feminism. Rightism, but to the right of socdem individualism, extreme capitalist liberalism.
-Lesbian feminism. Unrelated.
-Lipstick feminism. No comment.
-Liberal feminism. Reformism, individualism, old, unfinished critique, idealist and even "ancap sex tendencies".
-Material feminism. Taken by revisionists.
-Marxist feminism. Taken by eurocommunist revisionists.
-Networked feminism. There are better uses of collective organization.
-Neofeminism. Conservatism, strenghtens essentialism and gender roles.
-Postcolonial feminism. Not a real trend.
-Postmodern feminism. Catch-all label.
-Post-structural feminism. It needs to recognize that discrimination based in body is real independently of if we know it's false or shouldn't exist.
-Pro-feminism. The identitarian pitch enhances conservative women "just because they're women".
-Pro-life feminism. Rightism.
-Radical feminism. TERFism.
-Separatist feminism. Impatience and hopelessness for the goals.
-Sex-positive feminism. The problem is that both sex negative and sex positive feminism are bad in their own way. The reason is that they isolate the industrial sex practices from capitalism, thus they either reach to permissive conclusions of aggression (sex positive) or oppressive conclusions of voluntary and harmless acts (sex negative).
-Socialist feminism. Taken by revisionists.
-Standpoint feminism. Sometimes it can enhance conservative women through identitarianism.
-State feminism. Not a real trend.
-Structuralist feminism. Underplays the role of leaderships.
-Third Wave Feminism. Catch-all label.
-Transfeminism. It'd need to be mixed with class struggle and national liberation, but class is still the principal one because it determines the whole ideological structure which "trickles down" to all society. Some of them also reject abolitionism, after looking at those who look for their "services" it's clear it's just liberalism and "economically planned women" would be an old mentality and weird to propose in a classless society.
-Transnational feminism. Downplays the importance of class equating it with other axes. Partialization of struggle.


The thread spreads bourgeois feminism and it can be seen in such names of the orgs like "business", "financial", etc. They just seek to enrich themselves like men do but it's the same selfish mentality that keeps this system of exploitation going on. This isn't surprising, the sufragettes, the feminist movement emerged as bourgeois and we're still capitalism, some want to deceive the people to fight for exploiter queens and the rich. Actually the feminist term emerged as derogatory because "women were trying to benefit women more than men" in the eyes of Alexandre Dumas instead of Fourier.

The bourgeoisie distorts the 8 day, saying "women's day". But actually it's the working women day, proposed by the leninist Clara Zetkin.
Capitalism consisted in making woman a complement of men in the house, subjugating intellectually women to the will of men and economically too through this division of work.

MRAs negate the historical structure of capitalism and its ideological masks in their role of subjugating women. They then point out individual cases of abuses against men and even structural ones like the deaths in the army. But all those "deaths" were created by the same structure inherited by a development of religion as ideology and the power of men, they created all those, the "men don't cry" is still an issue of being putting down the oppressive structure against women and not just a "men association against abuses". So, the role of MRAs is rightist and conservative even if they try to paint themselves as "pro-feminist"; because radicals already address that and know it originates from the same system which says women should do chores and "be flowers" while men have "to be tanks". Both the sanctification of toxic masculinity and "female weakness" are just faces of conservatism and rightism. If the male has been abused there's no need to push a whole "movement" and which is reserved only to men. A comrade of any kind, no matter the gender, can support the abused male; as well as if the abused one was a women, but the role of association in the latter is still "progressive" so to speak, even if it delays revolution through partialization of struggle, since the historically subjugation of women still exist, and that subjugation includes marking men as weak, it's inside the same struggle.



Yeah but capitalism is tops.
Who doesn't like its ability to give people enough free time to discuss social issues.

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Giovenith
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Posts: 20640
Founded: Feb 08, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Giovenith » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:28 pm

Purple Rats wrote:
Saiwania wrote:JK Rowling is what I and many other people might consider as being in the radically liberal "Feminazi" camp. There is this rumor going around that she might be starting to "see the light" more from my perspective. The word going around is that she's become more anti-trans in opinion. She's become a TERF, unless people are mistaken by having the wrong interpretation from recent comments that were made.

https://indianexpress.com/article/enter ... w-6457082/


I don't think she is becoming TERF, I think she has been TERF all the time, she just express her views now more.


Probably. Probably now that trans issues have become so prominent, that side of people can't help but come out.

Hopefully though, I think that TERFs will eventually go the way of the "lavender menace" from the second wave, back when the feminist mainstream thought that lesbians were the big "threat to womanhood." Ironically, a lot of TERFs that I encounter are proud lesbians themselves, the kind of radical, holier-than-thou, "our love is not tainted with the filth of man" types. Just goes to show that unfortunately, being oppressed yourself doesn't necessarily make you empathize with the oppression of others, as most people seem to hope. Humans will grab onto anything to make themselves feel superior to others, even if it's painfully ironic or hypocritical.

Makes you wonder though, who's going to be the next target once TERF'ing goes out of style? *big think*
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Rojava Free State
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Posts: 19432
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:19 pm

Byeclase wrote:
-Amazon feminism. Just national rights and culture.
-Analytical feminism. Bourgeois individualism.
-Anarcha-feminism. Anarchist.
-Atheist feminism. Denounciation of machismo in religions.

Ethnic, they're not real trends just how they relate to ethnicities:
-Black Feminism, Chicana feminism.

Religious feminism based in theology, they're provable false religions, but if they were real their gods should still have to be overthrown for being socdems/liberals/conservatives, that means, they didn't seek to program a free world and relied on the "free will" of the people to justify their divine nature:
-Islamic feminism, Jewish feminism, Christian feminism, Mormon feminism, Sikh feminism, New feminism.

-Conservative feminism. When your uncle calls himself feminist to "integrate" in the family as a last resource to hide his machismo.
-Cultural feminism. Essentialism.
-Cyber feminism. Futuristic gender abolitionism with morphological freedom.
-Difference feminism. Essentialism, strenghtens gender roles as natural.
-Ecofeminism. Idealist, they just mix two concepts together and try hard to reconciliate them.
-Equity and Gender Feminism. Just rightism, antifeminism, denying oppression of women.
-Fat feminism. Ill-informed people about fatness, the problem isn't accepting fat people here, the problem if glorification of bad habits with pseudoscience.
-French feminism. No comment.
-Global feminism. No comment.
-Hip-hop feminism. Not a real trend, how can we call a trend just because the message is spread through a genre of music?
Individualist feminism. Rightism, but to the right of socdem individualism, extreme capitalist liberalism.
-Lesbian feminism. Unrelated.
-Lipstick feminism. No comment.
-Liberal feminism. Reformism, individualism, old, unfinished critique, idealist and even "ancap sex tendencies".
-Material feminism. Taken by revisionists.
-Marxist feminism. Taken by eurocommunist revisionists.
-Networked feminism. There are better uses of collective organization.
-Neofeminism. Conservatism, strenghtens essentialism and gender roles.
-Postcolonial feminism. Not a real trend.
-Postmodern feminism. Catch-all label.
-Post-structural feminism. It needs to recognize that discrimination based in body is real independently of if we know it's false or shouldn't exist.
-Pro-feminism. The identitarian pitch enhances conservative women "just because they're women".
-Pro-life feminism. Rightism.
-Radical feminism. TERFism.
-Separatist feminism. Impatience and hopelessness for the goals.
-Sex-positive feminism. The problem is that both sex negative and sex positive feminism are bad in their own way. The reason is that they isolate the industrial sex practices from capitalism, thus they either reach to permissive conclusions of aggression (sex positive) or oppressive conclusions of voluntary and harmless acts (sex negative).
-Socialist feminism. Taken by revisionists.
-Standpoint feminism. Sometimes it can enhance conservative women through identitarianism.
-State feminism. Not a real trend.
-Structuralist feminism. Underplays the role of leaderships.
-Third Wave Feminism. Catch-all label.
-Transfeminism. It'd need to be mixed with class struggle and national liberation, but class is still the principal one because it determines the whole ideological structure which "trickles down" to all society. Some of them also reject abolitionism, after looking at those who look for their "services" it's clear it's just liberalism and "economically planned women" would be an old mentality and weird to propose in a classless society.
-Transnational feminism. Downplays the importance of class equating it with other axes. Partialization of struggle.


The thread spreads bourgeois feminism and it can be seen in such names of the orgs like "business", "financial", etc. They just seek to enrich themselves like men do but it's the same selfish mentality that keeps this system of exploitation going on. This isn't surprising, the sufragettes, the feminist movement emerged as bourgeois and we're still capitalism, some want to deceive the people to fight for exploiter queens and the rich. Actually the feminist term emerged as derogatory because "women were trying to benefit women more than men" in the eyes of Alexandre Dumas instead of Fourier.

The bourgeoisie distorts the 8 day, saying "women's day". But actually it's the working women day, proposed by the leninist Clara Zetkin.
Capitalism consisted in making woman a complement of men in the house, subjugating intellectually women to the will of men and economically too through this division of work.

MRAs negate the historical structure of capitalism and its ideological masks in their role of subjugating women. They then point out individual cases of abuses against men and even structural ones like the deaths in the army. But all those "deaths" were created by the same structure inherited by a development of religion as ideology and the power of men, they created all those, the "men don't cry" is still an issue of being putting down the oppressive structure against women and not just a "men association against abuses". So, the role of MRAs is rightist and conservative even if they try to paint themselves as "pro-feminist"; because radicals already address that and know it originates from the same system which says women should do chores and "be flowers" while men have "to be tanks". Both the sanctification of toxic masculinity and "female weakness" are just faces of conservatism and rightism. If the male has been abused there's no need to push a whole "movement" and which is reserved only to men. A comrade of any kind, no matter the gender, can support the abused male; as well as if the abused one was a women, but the role of association in the latter is still "progressive" so to speak, even if it delays revolution through partialization of struggle, since the historically subjugation of women still exist, and that subjugation includes marking men as weak, it's inside the same struggle.


Sounds like what I told my friends. All these young black and brown youth wanna get the money to get power but that perpetuates the capitalist system. I on the other hand want to equalize society. Fuck "the first woman wallstreet executive" because the goal should be a more equal society for all and not a ruling class that looks a little more diverse.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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