The NationStates Feminism Thread IV: Fight Like A Girl!

[Sundiata]

Hurt people hurt people. You ever hear that saying before? A person can have a psychopath's brain and still not hurt others.

Yeah but the way you guys and liberals manage it won’t be effective in controlling sociopathy. “Have a psychopath’s brain” = “being psychologically psychopathic”. Even if such a person due to heavy religious intervention or liberal social work does actually not act psychopathologically the problem is probably inheritable.

Even people with ASPD have human dignity. A system of laws, courts, and law enforcement is the most reasonable way to stop rape and violence.

Executing everyone accused of rape is ludicrous. Everyone deserves a fair trial.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Yeah but the way you guys and liberals manage it won’t be effective in controlling sociopathy. “Have a psychopath’s brain” = “being psychologically psychopathic”. Even if such a person due to heavy religious intervention or liberal social work does actually not act psychopathologically the problem is probably inheritable.

Even people with ASPD have human dignity. A system of laws, courts, and law enforcement is the most reasonable way to stop rape and violence.

Executing everyone accused of rape is ludicrous. Everyone deserves a fair trial.

Of course I believe in due process. However I also believe in controlling psychopathy reproductively. Certain genes probably shouldn’t be passed on to the next generation without getting edited. How that should be done without causing statism is more interesting.

Maybe there should be some kind of crime insurance. One who is genetically more susceptible to crime will have to pay more. That would encourage couples to go through genetic editing if their potential offspring could be prone to disorders such as psychopathy.

[Sundiata]

Even people with ASPD have human dignity. A system of laws, courts, and law enforcement is the most reasonable way to stop rape and violence.

Executing everyone accused of rape is ludicrous. Everyone deserves a fair trial.

Of course I believe in due process. However I also believe in controlling psychopathy reproductively.

No to eugenics.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Of course I believe in due process. However I also believe in controlling psychopathy reproductively.

No to eugenics.

It needs to be voluntary but we do need to strongly encourage genetic cure for psychopathy once it is available.

[Sundiata]

I believe in sterilization of rapists and abortion of products of rape, not reforming them.

We shouldn't sterilize people.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

I believe in sterilization of rapists and abortion of products of rape, not reforming them.

We shouldn't sterilize people.

Then you are never going to seriously reduce crime. Crime reduction is often not a very moralistic process in case you wonder. In Europe the process is pretty well-documented. West Europeans have become very peaceful because of extremely harsh laws that included execution for certain forms of theft that even applied to children which was a strong selection pressure. Of course in China and likely agricultural Northeast Asia in general the evolutionary purge was even more complete. They did execute relatives of people who have committed very serious crimes.

It’s things such as execution, abortion, long-term incarceration and pollution reduction that reduced crime, not moralism.

[Galloism]

this may be the stupidest argument i've read all day
and i watched a tankie defend gulags

Damn thing needs a like button.

[Sundiata]

It’s things such as execution, abortion, long-term incarceration and pollution reduction that reduced crime, not moralism.

Have you thought about impact of long-term incarceration and execution on innocent people?

The state isn't perfect. When you abandon moral considerations you get the ugliest horrors of human history.

Ending the holocaust took moralism.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

It’s things such as execution, abortion, long-term incarceration and pollution reduction that reduced crime, not moralism.

Have you thought about impact of long-term incarceration and execution on innocent people?

The state isn't perfect. When you abandon moral considerations you get the ugliest horrors of human history.

Ending the holocaust took moralism.

Yes.

So I think we agree that we are not going to really seriously end rape since what’s effective often has very high social costs.

[Sundiata]

Have you thought about impact of long-term incarceration and execution on innocent people?

The state isn't perfect. When you abandon moral considerations you get the ugliest horrors of human history.

Ending the holocaust took moralism.

Yes.

So I think we agree that we are not going to really seriously end rape.

Well, you can think that but I still believe that you can protect the innocent at the same time you preserve human rights.

If you sincerely care about these issues there's plenty of organizations you can support to combat rape, domestic violence, and other forms of abuse.

I implore you to do that because everyone needs help sometimes.

[New haven america]

This argument is restricting the only brain cell I have left from reaching the desired destination and state of mitosis.

The others left during Neko's first argument, but Sun and Neko? I weep.

[Sundiata]

Have you thought about impact of long-term incarceration and execution on innocent people?

The state isn't perfect. When you abandon moral considerations you get the ugliest horrors of human history.

Ending the holocaust took moralism.

Yes.

So I think we agree that we are not going to really seriously end rape since what’s effective often has very high social costs.

It's not effective to execute and sterilize innocent people. People have dignity and everyone deserves a shot at a good life.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Yes.

So I think we agree that we are not going to really seriously end rape since what’s effective often has very high social costs.

It's not effective to execute and sterilize innocent people. People have dignity and everyone deserves a shot at a good life.

It is effective if the only issue you care about is crime reduction. However that doesn’t make it right.

We have to admit that sterilizing people for simply being genetically predisposed to rape is China-like and such policies can indeed lead to China. China happens precisely because almost all decisions are made in this manner.

Thanks for your correction!

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

this may be the stupidest argument i've read all day
and i watched a tankie defend gulags

same, instead of "stalin did nothing wrong" it's "rape is favored by evolution" smh my head

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

this may be the stupidest argument i've read all day
and i watched a tankie defend gulags

same, instead of "stalin did nothing wrong" it's "rape is favored by evolution" smh my head

You do realize the key difference here, right?

Is X morally right because it is favored by evolution? Does evolution determine what’s moral and what’s immoral? No. It is very obvious that I have never justified rape. Does a phenomenon have to be rationally impossible to explain to be morally abhorrent? No? It’s pretty interesting that most humans prefer evil to be impossible to understand as if that’s a virtue.

[Sundiata]

Rape is always the rapist's fault. The best thing that can be done to stop rape is to stop people from raping. There are a lot of things we can do to stop rape.

We'e got to improve the manner in which people, especially women are perceived. If we praised men who were respectful of women and stopped adding to a culture that regularly objectifies and belittles women, then we could slowly start to fix the world we've got.

For example, it's not cool to joke about rape. It's not cool joke about sexual assault. Recognize that men also get raped. We need to encourage everyone not to be ashamed or afraid for cooperating with lawful authorities on this subject.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

aaand of course it ends with eugenics. why the fuck not.

[Feyre]

HI, so glad to see this thread, I enjoy seeing spaces like this where civil discussions are encouraged!

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

same, instead of "stalin did nothing wrong" it's "rape is favored by evolution" smh my head

You do realize the key difference here, right?

Is X morally right because it is favored by evolution? Does evolution determine what’s moral and what’s immoral? No. It is very obvious that I have never justified rape. Does a phenomenon have to be rationally impossible to explain to be morally abhorrent? No?

you justify rape and take the blame off of the rapist by saying "rape is favored by evolution".

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

HI, so glad to see this thread, I enjoy seeing spaces like this where civil discussions are encouraged!

are you reading the thread right now?

[New haven america]

mitosis

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

mitosis

based and cellpilled.

[Sundiata]

This argument is restricting the only brain cell I have left from reaching the desired destination and state of mitosis.

The others left during Neko's first argument, but Sun and Neko? I weep.

You don't have to agree with me but I take serious objection to the implication that rape is ever favorable or justifiable in any circumstance.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

[quote="Wink Wonk We Like Stonks";p="38053056"][quote="Nekostan-e Gharbi";p="38053048"]

You do realize the key difference here, right?

Is X morally right because it is favored by evolution? Does evolution determine what’s moral and what’s immoral? No. It is very obvious that I have never justified rape. Does a phenomenon have to be rationally impossible to explain to be morally abhorrent? No?[/quote]
you justify rape and take the blame off of the rapist by saying "rape is favored by evolution".[/quote]

Yeah as usual evil must be rationally unexplainable or it will be justified. Does that make any sense?

Did you read what you just quoted, namely “Is X morally right because it is favored by evolution?” Does evolution actually determine what’s moral? No? Since evolution does not determine what’s moral how exactly did I justify rape by providing a possible evolutionary cause?

What’s particularly absurd is that we don’t actually disagree. Yet most people simply can not get over is != ought to. Does evil have to be uncaused? Does explaining what it is make it less serious?

[Sundiata]

same, instead of "stalin did nothing wrong" it's "rape is favored by evolution" smh my head

You do realize the key difference here, right?

Is X morally right because it is favored by evolution? Does evolution determine what’s moral and what’s immoral? No. It is very obvious that I have never justified rape. Does a phenomenon have to be rationally impossible to explain to be morally abhorrent? No? It’s pretty interesting that most humans prefer evil to be impossible to understand as if that’s a virtue.

I'm emphasizing how bad rape is and what can be done about it because I'm just as worried as you that someone is being raped and/or will be raped again. I see the same injustice and corruption that you do.

But when we violate the rights of another, even the worst of us we become just like them. As much as I hate crime, I admit that people often commit crimes for depraved and desperate reasons. That said, let's not give any predator any possible reason. Reckless brutality is not the answer. Let's make our system more fair and less broken.