The NationStates Feminism Thread IV: Fight Like A Girl!

[Stellar Colonies]

Focusing primarily on domestic violence against women and giving little apparent attention towards domestic violence against men is definitely counterproductive, as it leaves a great deal many men with either no help or very counterproductive 'help'.

Helping victims of either gender separately if needed is probably ideal, since men traumatized by a female abuser or women traumatized by a male abuser probably aren't going to feel at ease around such people until they recover, but creating an unneeded distinction between male and female victims is ridiculous.

[Fahran]

it would be a justified rant

Sir, this is an Arby's.

Also, you think all your rants are justified.

[Fahran]

Ostro, I don't think families who struggle to afford tampons or pads are spending an excessive amount of money on girls' clothing. And not having to spend that money on sanitary products can free it up to buy more food that boys need to eat in larger quantities than girls during puberty most especially.

Mind you, I think you'd have a point if you proposed more positive ideas about how we can uplift men and boys across society since men and boys are absolutely confronted by a wide assortment of problems that appear gendered, including homelessness, suicide, murder, assault, underreporting of sexual violence, domestic abuse, etc.

[Kowani]

it would be a justified rant

Sir, this is an Arby's.

but arby's does bad food
i don't wanna go ;-;

Also, you think all your rants are justified.

coincidentally, i am never wrong about that

[Des-Bal]

Focusing primarily on domestic violence against women and giving little apparent attention towards domestic violence against men is definitely counterproductive, as it leaves a great deal many men with either no help or very counterproductive 'help'.

Helping victims of either gender separately if needed is probably ideal, since men traumatized by a female abuser or women traumatized by a male abuser probably aren't going to feel at ease around such people until they recover, but creating an unneeded distinction between male and female victims is ridiculous.

Specifically it's domestic violence BY men AGAINST women. The Duluth model says abuse is when men abuse women because of patriarchy, it fails to address men who are abused or women who are abused by other women. Lesbian relationships have the highest rate of abuse and limited resources that are prepared to recognize their situations

[Stellar Colonies]

Focusing primarily on domestic violence against women and giving little apparent attention towards domestic violence against men is definitely counterproductive, as it leaves a great deal many men with either no help or very counterproductive 'help'.

Helping victims of either gender separately if needed is probably ideal, since men traumatized by a female abuser or women traumatized by a male abuser probably aren't going to feel at ease around such people until they recover, but creating an unneeded distinction between male and female victims is ridiculous.

Specifically it's domestic violence BY men AGAINST women. The Duluth model says abuse is when men abuse women because of patriarchy, it fails to address men who are abused or women who are abused by other women. Lesbian relationships have the highest rate of abuse and limited resources that are prepared to recognize their situations

Yeah, the Duluth Model more than deserves to be trashed.

[Auzkhia]

Important caveat, statistics about abuse and assault are based on what actually is reported. It is estimated the numbers and rates may be different if not higher as it goes underreported.

[Stellar Colonies]

Important caveat, statistics about abuse and assault are based on what actually is reported. It is estimated the numbers and rates may be different if not higher as it goes underreported.

Almost certainly, with the perception of what it is being distorted by that smaller sample.

[Ostroeuropa]

Ostro, I don't think families who struggle to afford tampons or pads are spending an excessive amount of money on girls' clothing. And not having to spend that money on sanitary products can free it up to buy more food that boys need to eat in larger quantities than girls during puberty most especially.

Mind you, I think you'd have a point if you proposed more positive ideas about how we can uplift men and boys across society since men and boys are absolutely confronted by a wide assortment of problems that appear gendered, including homelessness, suicide, murder, assault, underreporting of sexual violence, domestic abuse, etc.

I noted that even if it is the case that they are genuinely impoverished, tampons aren't really going to do much to address the underlying issues there. As for ideas on how to uplift men and boys, i'd begin first by immediately implementing Leonard Sax's ideas regarding ADHD diagnosis in schools.

Potentially even begin class action lawsuits against drug companies and school therapists. (Sax notes that boys are *vastly* overdiagnosed, often given drugs to "fix" them for displaying boyish behaviors, and beyond this, notes that it is done flagrantly in violation of standard medical practice requiring "These symptoms" not "One of these symptoms" as is done to male children).

The drugs when used on a healthy boy cause significantly adverse life outcomes and predicts terrible school results and psychological issues in later life.

I'd also note that this appears to me to be a much more pressing and dire problem in philosophical ethical terms, and yet we've put it behind "Tampons" in the discussion despite Sax having written his book a decade ago and been campaigning since. (As in; It is more vital that you stop stabbing the homeless man than it is you up and decide to give money to a different homeless man. That seems to me to be straightforwardly uncontroversial.).

It is a problem emerging from a combination of hostility and hatred for boys and masculinity and capitalism and profit motives of drug companies all too happy to exploit peoples animosity towards male children and their sense that they are "Broken" somehow. The schools hire therapists who drug the male children into compliance regardless of whether they actually have a mental health issue.

“There are more kids in Spokane on ADD medication than in all of France,” Dr. Leonard Sax said during our conversation about raising boys for last week’s column.

All the feminist waffling about bodily autonomy and you live in a country that is force-feeding amphetamines to male children because of the hatred of masculinity and viewing it as abnormal.

[Isles of Eamhna]

I noted that even if it is the case that they are genuinely impoverished, tampons aren't really going to do much to address the underlying issues there.

help is still help m8

[Ostroeuropa]

I noted that even if it is the case that they are genuinely impoverished, tampons aren't really going to do much to address the underlying issues there.

help is still help m8

I'm genuinely unsure that superficial programs like this do much to address systemic poverty compared to a frank discussion on the cost of living and advocating for a minimum income tied to it. It's just moving deck chairs on the titanic and balkanizing the problem rather than being straightforward with it.

[Sundiata]

help is still help m8

I'm genuinely unsure that superficial programs like this do much to address systemic poverty compared to a frank discussion on the cost of living and advocating for a minimum income tied to it. It's just moving deck chairs on the titanic and balkanizing the problem rather than being straightforward with it.

The most developed countries need to take on as many immigrants from the developing world as possible, give more in foreign aid, and support developing countries militarily as necessary. We could support women these ways if we just had the moral fiber.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm genuinely unsure that superficial programs like this do much to address systemic poverty compared to a frank discussion on the cost of living and advocating for a minimum income tied to it. It's just moving deck chairs on the titanic and balkanizing the problem rather than being straightforward with it.

The most developed countries need to take on as many immigrants from the developing world as possible, give more in foreign aid, and support developing countries militarily as necessary. We could support women these ways if we just had the moral fiber.

I'm not convinced this is a good idea compared to foreign aid. Brain drain harms these societies too. It's arguably a major reason they stay in poverty.

[Isles of Eamhna]

I'm genuinely unsure that superficial programs like this do much to address systemic poverty

that's great but I just need a tampon m8

you can work on the big problems while working on the little ones too

[Vassenor]

help is still help m8

I'm genuinely unsure that superficial programs like this do much to address systemic poverty compared to a frank discussion on the cost of living and advocating for a minimum income tied to it. It's just moving deck chairs on the titanic and balkanizing the problem rather than being straightforward with it.

Given that you clearly know what society must do instead why don’t you just come out and say it rather than just complaining that [insert agency here] isn’t doing whatever you want?

[Sundiata]

The most developed countries need to take on as many immigrants from the developing world as possible, give more in foreign aid, and support developing countries militarily as necessary. We could support women these ways if we just had the moral fiber.

I'm not convinced this is a good idea compared to foreign aid. Brain drain harms these societies too. It's arguably a major reason they stay in poverty.

Foreign aid is probably the better idea in the long run but how do we get the money to people who aren't corrupt? That's probably the first problem to address in these situations.

[Saiwania]

The most developed countries need to take on as many immigrants from the developing world as possible, give more in foreign aid, and support developing countries militarily as necessary. We could support women these ways if we just had the moral fiber.

Bah, I hate this idea with a passion. The developing world is precisely the sort that should be kept out in my view. Taking them in would diminish our own civilization and level of wealth and stability. It is letting in a trojan horse. It is an outrage that the developing countries aren't expected to take care of their own affairs and want to drag the developed economies down for their benefit and our loss.

The plight of women in very patriarchal societies overseas, is not and shouldn't be our problem.

[Isles of Eamhna]

It is an outrage that the developing countries aren't expected to take care of their own affairs and want to drag the developed economies down for their benefit and our loss.

remember that whole colonialism thing that built and continues to be the foundation of the "developed world"? where the West™ stole from, subverted, and sabotaged everyone else?

it's like stealing the wheels off a person's car and then getting upset when they haven't driven into work m8

[Vassenor]

The most developed countries need to take on as many immigrants from the developing world as possible, give more in foreign aid, and support developing countries militarily as necessary. We could support women these ways if we just had the moral fiber.

Bah, I hate this idea with a passion. The developing world is precisely the sort that should be kept out in my view. Taking them in would diminish our own civilization and level of wealth and stability. It is letting in a trojan horse. It is an outrage that the developing countries aren't expected to take care of their own affairs and want to drag the developed economies down for their benefit and our loss.

The plight of women in very patriarchal societies overseas, is not and shouldn't be our problem.

Funny how everything comes back to your childish fear of anyone with a skin tone darker than Pantone 727.

[Port Caverton]

Bah, I hate this idea with a passion. The developing world is precisely the sort that should be kept out in my view.

Why do you hate the global poor?

Taking them in would diminish our own civilization and level of wealth and stability. It is letting in a trojan horse.

No it wouldn't lmao

It is an outrage that the developing countries aren't expected to take care of their own affairs and want to drag the developed economies down for their benefit and our loss.

The reason that developping countries are the way they are is because of kleptocrats, so we should coup them out of office. Plus don't complain about someone "dragging down" the economy when you leech on welfare.

The plight of women in very patriarchal societies overseas, is not and shouldn't be our problem.

Yes it is our problem. Those women deserve freedom.

[Sundiata]

The plight of women in very patriarchal societies overseas, is not and shouldn't be our problem.

Vomitous. Your argument is not even factually correct but it's definitely not morally correct.

[Kowani]

Bah, I hate this idea with a passion. The developing world is precisely the sort that should be kept out in my view.

Why do you hate the global poor?

They’re brown
Sai is a Nazi
This is not hard

[Celritannia]

The most developed countries need to take on as many immigrants from the developing world as possible, give more in foreign aid, and support developing countries militarily as necessary. We could support women these ways if we just had the moral fiber.

Bah, I hate this idea with a passion. The developing world is precisely the sort that should be kept out in my view. Taking them in would diminish our own civilization and level of wealth and stability. It is letting in a trojan horse. It is an outrage that the developing countries aren't expected to take care of their own affairs and want to drag the developed economies down for their benefit and our loss.

The plight of women in very patriarchal societies overseas, is not and shouldn't be our problem.

You don't like it because you are uncivilised.

[New haven america]

The most developed countries need to take on as many immigrants from the developing world as possible, give more in foreign aid, and support developing countries militarily as necessary. We could support women these ways if we just had the moral fiber.

Bah, I hate this idea with a passion. The developing world is precisely the sort that should be kept out in my view. Taking them in would diminish our own civilization and level of wealth and stability. It is letting in a trojan horse. It is an outrage that the developing countries aren't expected to take care of their own affairs and want to drag the developed economies down for their benefit and our loss.

The plight of women in very patriarchal societies overseas, is not and shouldn't be our problem.

You do know most developing countries nowadays are only developing because places like Europe stole their shit and enslaved their people, right? Oh wait, of source you don't.

A better term for most developed nations would be "Recovering Nations."

[Giovenith]

I am reading another great book, "The Mommy Myth" by Susan J. Douglas. It's about how the 1950s ideal of motherhood and womanhood has been subtly resurrected and re-popularized by utilizing a thin veneer of feminism to cover up the harmful aspects of those ideals (mainly in celebrating women who are "strong enough to do it all" rather than questioning why women should be expected to do it all at all).