The NationStates Feminism Thread IV: Fight Like A Girl!

[Stellar Colonies]

She isn't putting enough effort into getting rid of the class elements of the game, as she is claiming to do. Try this instead: each suit will consist of one Party Secretary, two Central Committee Members, and ten Proles. The suits will no longer be hearts, diamonds, clubs, and spades; they will be hammer, sickle, star, and AK47.

The numbers, too, need to be removed, and replaced with levels of class consciousness, ranging from Lumpenprole to General Secretary.

Levels..?

Hierarchy?!

[Proctopeo]

The numbers, too, need to be removed, and replaced with levels of class consciousness, ranging from Lumpenprole to General Secretary.

Levels..?

Hierarchy?!

Comrade, it is but an organic hierarchy.

[Agarntrop]

Crossposted from the American Politics Thread, considering I started going on a tangent.

Lisa Montgomery has become the first woman since Ethel Rosenburg to be executed by the United States Federal Government.

Jesus Christ, it's been 70 years since then? The law is weird.

And completely biased against men, I will say.
I will use a nonexistent child custody case as an example.
We have John Doe, the father, and Jane Doe, the Mother. Jane Doe and John Doe are getting a divorce, and both want the custody of the child, but neither wants joint custody (they hate each other). Jane is completely incapable of raising a child, she has substance abuse issues, and she is very rude and abuses the child on a regular basis. John has none of these problems, and has been very caring of the child since his birth. He does spoil the child sometimes, but that's natural. Now, the court awards custody to Jane, which, as far as I know, is most likely based on the fact that the mother on average, has more time with the child then the father. John, however, has spent more time with the child and knows how to raise him. But, even when John tries to convince the courts, custody is awarded to the mother.

I think it's also because men are on average more likely to be convicted of murder (although Rosenberg wasn't convicted of murder, she was convicted of espionage, but that's another matter).

The current system, whether feminists like to think so or not, has segments that benefit both women and men in different ways. For example, there's the obvious caveat that on average men are payed more, and are more likely to hold office. But then you quite rightly point out that on the other hand women are benefited such as being more likely to face reduced prison terms and being given preferable treatment in child custody arrangements. I think it's imperative personally that both feminists and MRA people realise that the current system does not exclusively benefit either sex overall, but rather carries out specified discrimination against different sexes depending on the circumstances.

[Cordel One]

Going back to the topic of chivalry:

Personally I'll do my best to help people if something happens to them and I am protective of my friends to a reasonable extent, but I think the idea of being a knight in shining armor for damsels in distress needs to be left in the 17th century.

[The Blaatschapen]

Going back to the topic of chivalry:

Personally I'll do my best to help people if something happens to them and I am protective of my friends to a reasonable extent, but I think the idea of being a knight in shining armor for damsels in distress needs to be left in the 17th century.

Only people who have gained knighthood should be chivalrous.

[Sanghyeok]

Going back to the topic of chivalry:

Personally I'll do my best to help people if something happens to them and I am protective of my friends to a reasonable extent, but I think the idea of being a knight in shining armor for damsels in distress needs to be left in the 17th century.

Only people who have gained knighthood should be chivalrous.

Can sheep be knighted?

[The Blaatschapen]

Only people who have gained knighthood should be chivalrous.

Can sheep be knighted?

[Cordel One]

Only people who have gained knighthood should be chivalrous.

Can sheep be knighted?

I think so, they knighted a penguin in Norway.

[The Blaatschapen]

Can sheep be knighted?

I think so, they knighted a penguin in Norway.

Isn't that a demotion, given that it is a king penguin?

[The Untied State]

https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/indy-23-maakt-genderloos-kaartspel-huidige-spel-weerspiegelt-de-17de-eeuwse-klassenmaatschappij~af0e7f46/

For those not speaking Dutch (shame btw). A gender-neutral pack of playing cards.

Basically, she objected to the fact that the King was higher than the queen in most games. And replaced them (and the jack) with gold silver and bronze.

Which is silly in its own right. I mean, bronze? The other two are elements, whereas bronze is not a single element.

I'm not against it, it will just take a bit of time to get used to it.

not really a big deal and in some card games you want a lower card value, but i'm a fan of different types of card decks so i find it interesting.

[Ostroeuropa]

Crossposted from the American Politics Thread, considering I started going on a tangent.

Jesus Christ, it's been 70 years since then? The law is weird.

And completely biased against men, I will say.
I will use a nonexistent child custody case as an example.
We have John Doe, the father, and Jane Doe, the Mother. Jane Doe and John Doe are getting a divorce, and both want the custody of the child, but neither wants joint custody (they hate each other). Jane is completely incapable of raising a child, she has substance abuse issues, and she is very rude and abuses the child on a regular basis. John has none of these problems, and has been very caring of the child since his birth. He does spoil the child sometimes, but that's natural. Now, the court awards custody to Jane, which, as far as I know, is most likely based on the fact that the mother on average, has more time with the child then the father. John, however, has spent more time with the child and knows how to raise him. But, even when John tries to convince the courts, custody is awarded to the mother.

I think it's also because men are on average more likely to be convicted of murder (although Rosenberg wasn't convicted of murder, she was convicted of espionage, but that's another matter).

The current system, whether feminists like to think so or not, has segments that benefit both women and men in different ways. For example, there's the obvious caveat that on average men are payed more, and are more likely to hold office. But then you quite rightly point out that on the other hand women are benefited such as being more likely to face reduced prison terms and being given preferable treatment in child custody arrangements. I think it's imperative personally that both feminists and MRA people realise that the current system does not exclusively benefit either sex overall, but rather carries out specified discrimination against different sexes depending on the circumstances.

Men aren't more likely to be elected and there's good evidence that women in fact have an advantage in elections. They simply run for office more, largely because politics is an extremely difficult career path that involves a lot of sacrifice of comfort and time (See those before and after pictures of US presidents for example), and women have a multitude of alternatives to attain status and influence over policy.

For example, re-reunning the 2016 election debates and speeches with a female trump and a male clinton caused participants to realize they liked Trump and disliked Clinton, and they said it opened their eyes on the matter.
(So yes, regardless of feminist whining on the topic, a very substantial amount of clintons support was scientifically demontranstably the "Vagina" vote).
https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publicat ... ersal.html

(And as usual, yet another study where feminists go in with their preconceptions and turn out to have everything *exactly backwards*, but continue to believe they are serious theorists with a coherent theory on how the world works instead of just a mess of prejudices masquerading as theory.

Salvatore says he and Guadalupe began the project assuming that the gender inversion would confirm what they’d each suspected watching the real-life debates: that Trump’s aggression—his tendency to interrupt and attack—would never be tolerated in a woman, and that Clinton’s competence and preparedness would seem even more convincing coming from a man.

VS

Many were shocked to find that they couldn’t seem to find in Jonathan Gordon what they had admired in Hillary Clinton—or that Brenda King’s clever tactics seemed to shine in moments where they’d remembered Donald Trump flailing or lashing out.

)

When stuff like this happens so consistently you have to realize what that looks like.

There's the evidence that prior to marriage, men earn less than women.
It is after marriage that they earn more, so that seems to be an anti-male dynamic as well, since the household incomes are what matters for determining quality of life, and when it's convenient for women (A common theme of society) the money is seen as "Half hers" anyway (During divorce and alimony). It's only "Not hers" When convenient to women to whine about it and pretend they're being oppressed.

So let's look at the rates here:

1. Single men earn the least
2. Single women earn more
3. Married households earn the most

Can you explain why married households should be split into "Men and women" and whether "Women get paid less" actually impacts their lives in any meaningful way except to afford them the excuse of more work-life balance a preferable option to full time work according to a hypermajority (Over 90%) of both sexes?

It seems to me that when men are paid less it damages their quality of life.
When women are paid less, it simply doesn't. (And, as noted, that money appears to be "Theirs" when convenient for them anyway).

So you've listed one thing that is flatly untrue (It is women, not men, who are advantaged in political careers), and one thing that is extremely misleading.

"Womens" (Married womens) low pay actually benefits them and harms married men.
Single men earning less than single women however, does harm them.

There are examples of how women are impacted by sexism in society. These aren't them.
The well founded examples are all comparatively trivial, which is why feminists devote so much time and effort to pretending otherwise and need to appropriate mens issues in order to make it seem like "Both sides".

[The Untied State]

Going back to the topic of chivalry:

Personally I'll do my best to help people if something happens to them and I am protective of my friends to a reasonable extent, but I think the idea of being a knight in shining armor for damsels in distress needs to be left in the 17th century.

chivalry is just the concept of being kind but unnecessarily gendered and put on a pedestal

[Cordel One]

I think so, they knighted a penguin in Norway.

Isn't that a demotion, given that it is a king penguin?

Maybe so. Still, he seems to enjoy it.

[Stellar Colonies]

Going back to the topic of chivalry:

Personally I'll do my best to help people if something happens to them and I am protective of my friends to a reasonable extent, but I think the idea of being a knight in shining armor for damsels in distress needs to be left in the 17th century.

Going back to the topic of chivalry:

Personally I'll do my best to help people if something happens to them and I am protective of my friends to a reasonable extent, but I think the idea of being a knight in shining armor for damsels in distress needs to be left in the 17th century.

chivalry is just the concept of being kind but unnecessarily gendered and put on a pedestal

Yeah.

[Fahran]

Going back to the topic of chivalry:

Personally I'll do my best to help people if something happens to them and I am protective of my friends to a reasonable extent, but I think the idea of being a knight in shining armor for damsels in distress needs to be left in the 17th century.

I mean... a lot of the opposition to chivalry has been predicated on the notion that the idealized behaviors of the aristocracy are wholly absent amid modernity or else that nothing worthwhile has been offered by the aristocracy. Both of these are somewhat untrue. Additionally, while the damsel in distress is a popular trope that originated from medieval romances, it is not the sole motivation behind chivalry or courtly love. When we say someone is gentlemanly or ladylike, we're alluding to chivalry. Arguably, we're doing the same thing when we call someone a mensch. Heck, even our attitudes towards good sportsmanship have more in common in a lot of respects with Lancelot or Gawain than with Herakles or Achilleus.

[New haven america]

Going back to the topic of chivalry:

Personally I'll do my best to help people if something happens to them and I am protective of my friends to a reasonable extent, but I think the idea of being a knight in shining armor for damsels in distress needs to be left in the 17th century.

Well, also because chivalry is literally Knight's Code.

It doesn't have anything to do with sex or gender, it's how a knight should operate from day to day, including: cleanliness, weapon management, dueling curtesy, how to train the squires, what to do when called upon by your lord, etc...

[Auzkhia]

Chivalry is literally just battle code for medieval noble warriors.

It got twisted into benevolent sexist honor over time.

But like, what chivalry but make it feminist? And we have princess-knights lol

[The Blaatschapen]

Chivalry is literally just battle code for medieval noble warriors.

It got twisted into benevolent sexist honor over time.

But like, what chivalry but make it feminist? And we have princess-knights lol

Eowyn

[Esternial]

Going back to the topic of chivalry:

Personally I'll do my best to help people if something happens to them and I am protective of my friends to a reasonable extent, but I think the idea of being a knight in shining armor for damsels in distress needs to be left in the 17th century.

chivalry is just the concept of being kind but unnecessarily gendered and put on a pedestal

I think it's only still commonly used by people that seek recognition for managing some basic level of kindness.

Maybe that's just me though, but I've never seen someone un-ironically use the term.

[Des-Bal]

If we're talking about knightly chivalry being merciless to infidels is more important than being nice to ladies.

In the modern conception chivalry is all about how you treat women. How does the duty of men to protect women mesh with feminism?

Recently a woman decided I was going to walk her to her car because it was late. She asked me this despite the female security guard being present. Now any time you approach me with a question at work my internal response is "I'm tired, I'm busy, and I wouldn't care if you died" but a combination of diplomacy and cowardice usually softens it, in this case it softened it all the way to "Yeah sure." I thought about it some and if a woman requests or appears to need help in order to be safe my instinct is to render aid.

That got me thinking about a news story wherein a butch lesbian was badly beaten and nobody helped her. She claimed to the news that if she had been more feminine people would have helped, and that this was the result of bigotry.

If a man asked me to walk him to his car I would probably treat it as homosexual flirting because the alternative that a man feels to walk a short distance alone in the dark would make me think less of him. If I see a man getting hassled or even getting his ass kicked I'm walking the fuck away, but I'd 100% jump in on a woman's behalf even if it looks dicey.

In that light was the woman in the article a victim of apathy towards nonconforming women or did she just find herself unable to reap the benefits associated with the gender role she chose to eschew?

I don't know if women are aware of how much they expect or even rely on chivalry even if they may view it as sexist.

[Cordel One]

If a man asked me to walk him to his car I would probably treat it as homosexual flirting because the alternative that a man feels to walk a short distance alone in the dark would make me think less of him. If I see a man getting hassled or even getting his ass kicked I'm walking the fuck away, but I'd 100% jump in on a woman's behalf even if it looks dicey.

That's unfortunate.

[The Blaatschapen]

Going back to the topic of chivalry:

Personally I'll do my best to help people if something happens to them and I am protective of my friends to a reasonable extent, but I think the idea of being a knight in shining armor for damsels in distress needs to be left in the 17th century.

I quite prefer the eastern variety of this. Where the knight uses martial arts.

It would be Tai chivalry.

[Esternial]

If a man asked me to walk him to his car I would probably treat it as homosexual flirting because the alternative that a man feels to walk a short distance alone in the dark would make me think less of him. If I see a man getting hassled or even getting his ass kicked I'm walking the fuck away, but I'd 100% jump in on a woman's behalf even if it looks dicey.

That's unfortunate.

Not sure what takeaway to make that the default thought goes to homosexual flirting there...

I'd assume they'd want to talk about something to me in private for whatever reason. Dudes talk to dudes, too.

[Proctopeo]

If a man asked me to walk him to his car I would probably treat it as homosexual flirting because the alternative that a man feels to walk a short distance alone in the dark would make me think less of him. If I see a man getting hassled or even getting his ass kicked I'm walking the fuck away, but I'd 100% jump in on a woman's behalf even if it looks dicey.

That's unfortunate.

That's society.

[Des-Bal]

Not sure what takeaway to make that the default thought goes to homosexual flirting there...

I'd assume they'd want to talk about something to me in private for whatever reason. Dudes talk to dudes, too.

Generally when someone tries to isolate and talk to me with a pretext it's about mashing our parts together. Platonic talking usually facilitated by "hey I want to talk to you."