The NationStates Feminism Thread IV: Fight Like A Girl!

[Adamede]

It’s one gender norm, and one I’d argue isn’t the do anyone that society pushes. Historically societies have mainly pushed that women are weak and need to be protected by men at any and all costs.

couldn't really understand that first sentence, but alright.

My spellcheck has a kind of its own.

[Sundiata]

Nope. The gender norm is being the hero, the savior, the white knight. Stepping in to protect women on the basis of their gender, in a way no one is expected to do for men.

And again, this is a gender norm thing. Only men are told they have to step up and help strange women, never the reverse.

Think about it this way. Imagine if there were an ad saying “women, it’s time to take responsibility for children. Not just use the tv. Raise them and care for them.” Now, it’s true this is good advice, but it also specifically reinforced the gender normative assumption that it’s women who raise children, and by omission, excludes the people who are already less likely to receive such advice based on gender normative assumptions about who is responsible.

It’s the same thing.

ah, that makes sense. sundiata comes to mind...

Well, don't you want to be a hero? You'd be surprised at how great the world can be if you try. You could really become a great husband: provide for your family, have fun with your wife and children, give to causes you believe in. There is so much joy to be found in serving others and if that's not found by a man in the critical stages of his life, I'm scared for him. You serve yourself when you serve others.

With respect to responsibility, I do believe that women are just as responsible as men when it comes to work, marriage, and the rearing of children. However, I just don't think we're living in a good society if we tell people that they can be careless. I can best speak to the perspective of a man. I have first-hand experience of what happens when men, especially men abandon their responsibilities. Men are just as important as women.

[Galloism]

ah, that makes sense. sundiata comes to mind...

Well, don't you want to be a hero? You'd be surprised at how great the world can be if you try. You could really become a great husband: provide for your family, have fun with your wife and children, give to causes you believe in. There is so much joy to be found in serving others and if that's not found by a man in the critical stages of his life, I'm scared for him. You serve yourself when you serve others.

With respect to responsibility, I do believe that women are just as responsible as men when it comes to work, marriage, and the rearing of children. However, I just don't think we're living in a good society if we tell people that they can be careless. I can best speak to the perspective of a man. I have first-hand experience of what happens when men, especially men abandon their responsibilities. Men are just as important as women.

And themselves, incidentally. This is not the same as being a responsible family adult and ensuring the family is cared for. This is saying you should carelessly put yourself in harms way for strange women for no reason based on the fact that you have male genitals. It's indefensible, and anyone should be shamed for trying to put that onus of heroism on men. It's not a thing we do to women on account of the fact that they don't like it, and therefore it's not a thing we should do to men for the same reason.

[Sundiata]

Who cares if people call you a White Knight or a "simp?"

Serving others is an honorable thing. While it's cool to be kind to everyone to everyone, then that includes women. Kindness towards women is nothing shameful. People have unique needs and there's nothing wrong with making an effort to meet them where they're at or accommodating them. I think that if we're going to put pressure on people to be awesome we've got to accommodate them and give them the resources to accomplish great aims.

[Galloism]

Who cares if people call you a White Knight or a "simp?"

Serving others is an honorable thing. While it's cool to be kind to everyone to everyone, that that includes women. Kindness towards women is nothing shameful. People have unique needs and there's nothing wrong with making an effort to meet them where they're at or accommodating them. I think that if we're going to put pressure on people to be awesome we've got to accommodate them and give them the resources to accomplish great aims.

You're killing them.

And I'm not exaggerating. You are literally killing them.

[Sundiata]

Well, don't you want to be a hero? You'd be surprised at how great the world can be if you try. You could really become a great husband: provide for your family, have fun with your wife and children, give to causes you believe in. There is so much joy to be found in serving others and if that's not found by a man in the critical stages of his life, I'm scared for him. You serve yourself when you serve others.

With respect to responsibility, I do believe that women are just as responsible as men when it comes to work, marriage, and the rearing of children. However, I just don't think we're living in a good society if we tell people that they can be careless. I can best speak to the perspective of a man. I have first-hand experience of what happens when men, especially men abandon their responsibilities. Men are just as important as women.

And themselves, incidentally. This is not the same as being a responsible family adult and ensuring the family is cared for. This is saying you should carelessly put yourself in harms way for strange women for no reason based on the fact that you have male genitals. It's indefensible, and anyone should be shamed for trying to put that onus of heroism on men. It's not a thing we do to women on account of the fact that they don't like it, and therefore it's not a thing we should do to men for the same reason.

Could you give me an example (even hypothetical) of unnecessarily putting yourself in harm's way for a "strange woman" please? To me, it sounds like you're encouraging men to be selfish and I don't want to assume the worst about what you're saying.

[Sundiata]

Who cares if people call you a White Knight or a "simp?"

Serving others is an honorable thing. While it's cool to be kind to everyone to everyone, that that includes women. Kindness towards women is nothing shameful. People have unique needs and there's nothing wrong with making an effort to meet them where they're at or accommodating them. I think that if we're going to put pressure on people to be awesome we've got to accommodate them and give them the resources to accomplish great aims.

You're killing them.

And I'm not exaggerating. You are literally killing them.

Gallo, if you're being serious... Hypothetically speaking, don't you think it's honorable to sacrifice one's life in service to one's God, country, or family? What other possible "meaning" is there, should there be than that?

[Galloism]

Could you give me an example (even hypothetical) of unnecessarily putting yourself in harm's way for a "strange woman" please? To me, it sounds like you're encouraging men to be selfish and I don't want to assume the worst about what you're saying.

Gallo, if you're being serious... Hypothetically speaking, don't you think it's honorable to sacrifice one's life in service to one's God, country, or family? What other possible "meaning" is there, should there be than that?

Well, in the example of the Gillette ad, you are to put your hands on strangers and physically stop them if you see them doing something harassing or annoying to a strange woman. That's a pretty stupid minor thing to start a physical confrontation in the street over.

Again, this kind of stupid behavior literally gets people hurt or killed for a pretty minor reason.

And no, you shouldn't be required or pushed to sacrifice your life in service to someone else on the basis of your gender. This is an unconscionable gender role being pushed onto men and only men - and it is literally killing them.

[Adamede]

ah, that makes sense. sundiata comes to mind...

Well, don't you want to be a hero? You'd be surprised at how great the world can be if you try. You could really become a great husband: provide for your family, have fun with your wife and children, give to causes you believe in. There is so much joy to be found in serving others and if that's not found by a man in the critical stages of his life, I'm scared for him. You serve yourself when you serve others.

With respect to responsibility, I do believe that women are just as responsible as men when it comes to work, marriage, and the rearing of children. However, I just don't think we're living in a good society if we tell people that they can be careless. I can best speak to the perspective of a man. I have first-hand experience of what happens when men, especially men abandon their responsibilities. Men are just as important as women.

You shouldn’t help the world because you want to be a hero, you should help because it’s the right thing to do. Wanting to be the hero is just fulfilling your own ego.

And easing a family doesn’t make you a hero. Any fuckwad with working genitals can start a family.

[Sundiata]

Well, don't you want to be a hero? You'd be surprised at how great the world can be if you try. You could really become a great husband: provide for your family, have fun with your wife and children, give to causes you believe in. There is so much joy to be found in serving others and if that's not found by a man in the critical stages of his life, I'm scared for him. You serve yourself when you serve others.

With respect to responsibility, I do believe that women are just as responsible as men when it comes to work, marriage, and the rearing of children. However, I just don't think we're living in a good society if we tell people that they can be careless. I can best speak to the perspective of a man. I have first-hand experience of what happens when men, especially men abandon their responsibilities. Men are just as important as women.

You shouldn’t help the world because you want to be a hero, you should help because it’s the right thing to do. Wanting to be the hero is just fulfilling your own ego.

And easing a family doesn’t make you a hero. Any fuckwad with working genitals can start a family.

Not just starting a family, but successfully providing for a family until one's children are prepared to provide for their own families. That is heroic, it's the right thing to do. That's what being a hero is, doing what's morally right because it's the right thing to do.

There's nothing really to knock about that.

[Adamede]

You shouldn’t help the world because you want to be a hero, you should help because it’s the right thing to do. Wanting to be the hero is just fulfilling your own ego.

And easing a family doesn’t make you a hero. Any fuckwad with working genitals can start a family.

Not just starting a family, but successfully providing for a family until one's children are prepared to provide for their own families. That is heroic, it's the right thing to do. That's what being a hero is, doing what's morally right because it's the right thing to do.

There's nothing really to knock about that.

Raising a family is not heroic, it’s the baseline. Being a decent weapon isn’t heroic, it’s the baseline.

[Sundiata]

Could you give me an example (even hypothetical) of unnecessarily putting yourself in harm's way for a "strange woman" please? To me, it sounds like you're encouraging men to be selfish and I don't want to assume the worst about what you're saying.

Gallo, if you're being serious... Hypothetically speaking, don't you think it's honorable to sacrifice one's life in service to one's God, country, or family? What other possible "meaning" is there, should there be than that?

Well, in the example of the Gillette ad, you are to put your hands on strangers and physically stop them if you see them doing something harassing or annoying to a strange woman. That's a pretty stupid minor thing to start a physical confrontation in the street over.

Again, this kind of stupid behavior literally gets people hurt or killed for a pretty minor reason.

And no, you shouldn't be required or pushed to sacrifice your life in service to someone else on the basis of your gender. This is an unconscionable gender role being pushed onto men and only men - and it is literally killing them.

Well, a man can be heroic without breaking the law and physically assaulting strangers. I disagree man, I think that more men and women should be encouraged to risk and sacrifice their lives for the sake of noble causes in legitimate ways. For example, become a firefighter, join the military, join the police force.

Metaphorically speaking, it takes balls, it takes grit to put your life on the line for your country, family, and God. Anybody can talk trash about someone who is attempting great deeds. In the words of Theodore Roosevelt, "credit belongs to the man in the arena whose face is marred by sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs, and comes short again and again." These days, plenty of women too.

There's no success like failure and failure is no success at all.

[Aterman]

weapons now have standards

this is big brain, apparently.

[Sundiata]

Not just starting a family, but successfully providing for a family until one's children are prepared to provide for their own families. That is heroic, it's the right thing to do. That's what being a hero is, doing what's morally right because it's the right thing to do.

There's nothing really to knock about that.

Raising a family is not heroic, it’s the baseline. Being a decent weapon isn’t heroic, it’s the baseline.

Ok. You've got higher standards than I do in this respect than I do, and that's fine.

[Adamede]

Who cares if people call you a White Knight or a "simp?"

Serving others is an honorable thing. While it's cool to be kind to everyone to everyone, that that includes women. Kindness towards women is nothing shameful. People have unique needs and there's nothing wrong with making an effort to meet them where they're at or accommodating them. I think that if we're going to put pressure on people to be awesome we've got to accommodate them and give them the resources to accomplish great aims.

Being a simp isn’t the same thing as being kind to women.

[Sundiata]

Who cares if people call you a White Knight or a "simp?"

Serving others is an honorable thing. While it's cool to be kind to everyone to everyone, that that includes women. Kindness towards women is nothing shameful. People have unique needs and there's nothing wrong with making an effort to meet them where they're at or accommodating them. I think that if we're going to put pressure on people to be awesome we've got to accommodate them and give them the resources to accomplish great aims.

Being a simp isn’t the same thing as being kind to women.

What is being a "simp?"

[Rosmana]

I am just glad I am not expected to be in the military anymore.

[Sundiata]

I am just glad I am not expected to be in the military anymore.

It's an honor to even be considered for the military.

[The Black Forrest]

Being a simp isn’t the same thing as being kind to women.

What is being a "simp?"

A guy being submissive to women with the hopes of getting sex.

[Adamede]

I am just glad I am not expected to be in the military anymore.

It's an honor to even be considered for the military.

Not really.

[Sundiata]

What is being a "simp?"

A guy being submissive to women with the hopes of getting sex.

Oh, that's disgusting. I used the term inappropriately. I apologize for that.

[Rosmana]

I am just glad I am not expected to be in the military anymore.

It's an honor to even be considered for the military.

Sure, well, sorry, Iam not that patriotic, plus I am Dutch, we do not matter that much.

And I am not qualified, Iam not some muscular, brave rambo lookalike.

[Sundiata]

It's an honor to even be considered for the military.

Not really.

Not really?!?

Without the military you'd be in German territory right now licking the boot of some Nazi stooge.

Let me tell you something, if the military puts you in a tutu and makes you dance like a sugarplum fairy, you better say "Yes sir, thank you sir, God bless this country.'

Come on man.

[Auzkhia]

I am just glad I am not expected to be in the military anymore.

I may or may not be banned from my country's military lol

Still, conscription is bad because it violates bodily autonomy and is forced servitude.

What is being a "simp?"

A guy being submissive to women with the hopes of getting sex.

I thought it was more like "cuck" but then again a lot of online right wingers used like so, especially when OnlyFans became much more popular.

Not really.

Not really?!?

Without the military you'd be in German territory right now licking the boot of some Nazi stooge.

Let me tell you something, if the military puts you in a tutu and makes you dance like a sugarplum fairy, you better say "Yes sir, thank you sir, God bless this country.'

Come on man.

*stares in underground resistance and communist partisans*

Though yes, the Canadian military did help the Dutch to free themselves.

[Galloism]

Well, in the example of the Gillette ad, you are to put your hands on strangers and physically stop them if you see them doing something harassing or annoying to a strange woman. That's a pretty stupid minor thing to start a physical confrontation in the street over.

Again, this kind of stupid behavior literally gets people hurt or killed for a pretty minor reason.

And no, you shouldn't be required or pushed to sacrifice your life in service to someone else on the basis of your gender. This is an unconscionable gender role being pushed onto men and only men - and it is literally killing them.

Well, a man can be heroic without breaking the law and physically assaulting strangers. I disagree man, I think that more men and women should be encouraged to risk and sacrifice their lives for the sake of noble causes in legitimate ways. For example, become a firefighter, join the military, join the police force.

Metaphorically speaking, it takes balls, it takes grit to put your life on the line for your country, family, and God. Anybody can talk trash about someone who is attempting great deeds. In the words of Theodore Roosevelt, "credit belongs to the man in the arena whose face is marred by sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs, and comes short again and again." These days, plenty of women too.

There's no success like failure and failure is no success at all.

Again, you are literally getting people killed for really silly reasons.