The NationStates Feminism Thread IV: Fight Like A Girl!

[Cordel One]

How is feminism a hate movement? Ending the male domination of society isn't hatred, it's equality.
There are things like trans exclusionism or whatever Cekoviu's doing which definitely stem from hate, but feminism isn't to blame.

Feminism is historically an anti-male movement and has passed a number of anti-male legislations, opposed and blocked pro-male reforms, and so on. I don't care what you say feminism is, and I don't care how much you waffle about all the good white supremacy does for white people.

Evaluate how it treats and impacts men, don't cherry pick your examples, and then come and tell me it's an equality movement.

Women's rights is definitely not anti-male. There is a great inequality that needs to be corrected, and correcting it does not make men victims.

[Ostroeuropa]

Feminism is historically an anti-male movement and has passed a number of anti-male legislations, opposed and blocked pro-male reforms, and so on. I don't care what you say feminism is, and I don't care how much you waffle about all the good white supremacy does for white people.

Evaluate how it treats and impacts men, don't cherry pick your examples, and then come and tell me it's an equality movement.

Women's rights is definitely not anti-male. There is a great inequality that needs to be corrected, and correcting it does not make men victims.

The duluth model made men victims.
NOW opposing presumed joint custody made men victims.
Decades of feminist misinformation on the topics of domestic violence and rape made men victims.
Campus kangaroo courts have violated mens due process rights.

I have other examples, but why don't you start off by telling me how a movement that excuses, normalizes, and even advocates on behalf of violence and rape of a demographic and tries to prevent them having access to their children and being protected by due process isn't a hate movement?

These issues alone and these historic crimes of feminism against men make any "But we've changed" a non-starter even before you get into how that isn't really as true as you'd like it to be. You can't white wash the confederate flag to be about racial equality, and if you can't cope with that, I don't care.

[Celritannia]

Women's rights is definitely not anti-male. There is a great inequality that needs to be corrected, and correcting it does not make men victims.

The duluth model made men victims.
NOW opposing presumed joint custody made men victims.
Decades of feminist misinformation on the topics of domestic violence and rape made men victims.
Campus kangaroo courts have violated mens due process rights.

I have other examples, but why don't you start off by telling me how a movement that excuses, normalizes, and even advocates on behalf of violence and rape of a demographic and tries to prevent them having access to their children and being protected by due process isn't a hate movement?

These issues alone and these historic crimes of feminism against men make any "But we've changed" a non-starter even before you get into how that isn't really as true as you'd like it to be. You can't white wash the confederate flag to be about racial equality, and if you can't cope with that, I don't care.

Or we could just have each case judged individually and based on their own merits or lack there of.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

til feminism is a hate movement, women control everything, and that cek is occasionally right.

[Ostroeuropa]

The duluth model made men victims.
NOW opposing presumed joint custody made men victims.
Decades of feminist misinformation on the topics of domestic violence and rape made men victims.
Campus kangaroo courts have violated mens due process rights.

I have other examples, but why don't you start off by telling me how a movement that excuses, normalizes, and even advocates on behalf of violence and rape of a demographic and tries to prevent them having access to their children and being protected by due process isn't a hate movement?

These issues alone and these historic crimes of feminism against men make any "But we've changed" a non-starter even before you get into how that isn't really as true as you'd like it to be. You can't white wash the confederate flag to be about racial equality, and if you can't cope with that, I don't care.

Or we could just have each case judged individually and based on their own merits or lack there of.

You're right.

What are the merits of this man and his views on racial equality?

Case by case?

We should hear him out. He might have something valid to contribute.

As I said, nobody calling themselves a feminist can expect to be taken seriously as a gender equality advocate by anyone who knows the history of the movement. Because if they cared, they wouldn't call themselves feminists.

At best you can say they care, just not enough to consider how offensive it is because they're super-duper attached to that label and don't wanna give it up no matter how justifiably alienated it makes men and victims of that movement, nor how much it would remind them of their victimization and so on.

You *do* realize there's men in this thread who have put up with the duluth model and feminist activism on rape laws and so on, right?

Go ahead. Sit down there and explain to us all how your confederate flag isn't a bad thing. I'm sure all us slavery descendents are dying to hear it.

This is not abstract celrit.

You are directly being obnoxious and insensitive as a result of feminism brainwashing you, and you should stop doing it. But you behave that way, and then expect us to believe feminists care about men, their participation in this conversation and so on. It is plainly ridiculous.

[Cekoviu]

til feminism is a hate movement, women control everything, and that cek is occasionally right.

*always, but baby steps

Or we could just have each case judged individually and based on their own merits or lack there of.

You're right.

What are the merits of this man and his views on racial equality?

Case by case?

We should hear him out. He might have something valid to contribute.

As I said, nobody calling themselves a feminist can expect to be taken seriously as a gender equality advocate by anyone who knows the history of the movement. Because if they cared, they wouldn't call themselves feminists.

At best you can say they care, just not enough to consider how offensive it is because they're super-duper attached to that label and don't wanna give it up no matter how justifiably alienated it makes men and victims of that movement.

tbh men do not belong in feminism as a women's liberation movement, but what distinguishes it from white nationalism is that feminism is based on real biological categories and is socially necessary and the other is not and is stupid
e.g. i am not claiming to advocate for gender equality, i am advocating for the complete demolition of the patriarchy with any associated costs, including temporarily harming men and/or hurting welsh bronies' feefees

[Ostroeuropa]

til feminism is a hate movement, women control everything, and that cek is occasionally right.

*always, but baby steps

You're right.

What are the merits of this man and his views on racial equality?

Case by case?

We should hear him out. He might have something valid to contribute.

As I said, nobody calling themselves a feminist can expect to be taken seriously as a gender equality advocate by anyone who knows the history of the movement. Because if they cared, they wouldn't call themselves feminists.

At best you can say they care, just not enough to consider how offensive it is because they're super-duper attached to that label and don't wanna give it up no matter how justifiably alienated it makes men and victims of that movement.

tbh men do not belong in feminism as a women's liberation movement, but what distinguishes it from white nationalism is that feminism is based on real biological categories and is socially necessary and the other is not and is stupid
e.g. i am not claiming to advocate for gender equality, i am advocating for the complete demolition of the patriarchy with any associated costs, including temporarily harming men and/or hurting welsh bronies' feefees

At least you're honest about it, even if you for some reason believe in patriarchy.

[United Hemand Insia]

Yeet feminism out the door and just give females a pay raise.

[North Cromch]

Yeet feminism out the door and just give females a pay raise.

The smart solution that everyone is too distracted arguing to realize.

[Cekoviu]

Yeet feminism out the door and just give females a pay raise.

The smart solution that everyone is too distracted arguing to realize.

the lazy solution which everyone is too distracted by rational thought to realize

[The Rich Port]

OH MY GOD OSTRO HOW ARE YOU UNIRONICALLY, IN ONE POST
a. implying you think "gynocentrism" has existed as far back as the 19th century in the USA
b. believing in QAnon
c. quoting r*ck and morty

1. Gynocentrism has existed as far back as the middle ages under some examinations of it. It was merely counterbalanced more.
2. I'm drawing comparisons between the way feminists interact with reality and QAnon, not believing in it.
3. Because it's a show you need to be quite intelligent to watch.

Clearly the right to vote is detrimental to everyone and should be taken away too. The mental gymnastics of pseudo-fascists amirite.

Also, Ostro, you missed like 99% of the video talking about how Q-Anon is wrong. But apparently an hour is too long for some people to stop being deliberately ignorant.

The bits examining how QAnon is wrong aren't necessary to the point being made, which is that the way of engaging with reality maps quite cleanly onto the feminist movement. I took it as a given everyone here thought QAnon was wrong.

Specifically;
There's a temptation to engage on that level and point out the ways they are just materially wrong, it largely does not work. What's unique is the degree to which it does not work, the degree to which they are immune to evidence. Because ultimately it's not about facts, it's about power. They're not empty vessels who believe one wacky thing, they have an agenda. What they accept and believe are driven by the outcomes they justify. The reason they aren't more bothered by constantly getting things wrong, more bothered by the extreme inconsistencies and outright contradictions, by the claims that are just materially wrong, is because it gives them power over others who are bound by something as weak and flimsy as reality. They claim to be against sexism while hanging their hat on an openly sexist movement, and that naked hypocrisy is the point.

They effortlessly carve out exceptions because it makes them exceptional. Engaging in wild hypocrisy as an act of domination, believing in something demonstrably untrue out of spite. Their will is a hammer they are using to beat reality into a shape of their choosing, a world that looks exactly like it does through their eyes.

(See the studies on how womens perceptions on these topics are demonstrably flawed, like the in-group bias study and the study showing they can't tell the difference between equality and misogyny, instead thinking female privilege is equality.).

You sure that's not you?

[Galloism]

(See the studies on how womens perceptions on these topics are demonstrably flawed, like the in-group bias study and the study showing they can't tell the difference between equality and misogyny, instead thinking female privilege is equality.).

You sure that's not you?

While a lot of his posts leave me feeling disjointed and so I don't respond to them much, this part is actually factually based.

Barring explicit disclaimers, failing to be sexist against men is viewed as misogyny on average.

When you are used to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

[Cekoviu]

wait omg i missed that post from ostro

3. Because it's a show you need to be quite intelligent to watch.

you are such a redditor holy shit

[Sundiata]

*Points to the ~2000 year history of the Catholic Church's sexual abuses and crimes*

Yeah, no, just gonna forget those? Ok then.

Oh but Francis said he'd stop it and put together a few councils and meetings to address the issue! Never mind all the other Popes who also said they'd stop it and put together all these other groups to address the issue that not only repeatedly failed but were consistently found to be corrupt, this time they mean it for realzies guys.

Your anger at abuse is righteous anger. I also want to assure you that Pope Francis feels the exact same way you do. He is doing the best he can given the structure of the church and how it operates sacramentally. The fault is not his, the clergy, or even Opus Dei.

The ultimate problem is the problem of evil. Evil has infiltrated my church.

[Cekoviu]

Oh but Francis said he'd stop it and put together a few councils and meetings to address the issue! Never mind all the other Popes who also said they'd stop it and put together all these other groups to address the issue that not only repeatedly failed but were consistently found to be corrupt, this time they mean it for realzies guys.

Your anger at abuse is righteous anger. I also want to assure you that Pope Francis feels the exact same way you do. He is doing the best he can given the structure of the church and how it operates sacramentally. The fault is not his, the clergy, or even Opus Dei.

The ultimate problem is the problem of evil. Evil has infiltrated my church.

curious: why would god allow his one true church to be co-opted to commit some of the most evil and atrocious acts possible on a massive scale?

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

Oh but Francis said he'd stop it and put together a few councils and meetings to address the issue! Never mind all the other Popes who also said they'd stop it and put together all these other groups to address the issue that not only repeatedly failed but were consistently found to be corrupt, this time they mean it for realzies guys.

Your anger at abuse is righteous anger. I also want to assure you that Pope Francis feels the exact same way you do. He is doing the best he can given the structure of the church and how it operates sacramentally. The fault is not his, the clergy, or even Opus Dei.

The ultimate problem is the problem of evil. Evil has infiltrated my church.

you're christian, don't you believe that evil has infiltrated everything since the fall?

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

Your anger at abuse is righteous anger. I also want to assure you that Pope Francis feels the exact same way you do. He is doing the best he can given the structure of the church and how it operates sacramentally. The fault is not his, the clergy, or even Opus Dei.

The ultimate problem is the problem of evil. Evil has infiltrated my church.

curious: why would god allow his one true church to be co-opted to commit some of the most evil and atrocious acts possible on a massive scale?

easy, god wanted the reformation to happen and he is a reformed pastor himself.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

til feminism is a hate movement, women control everything, and that cek is occasionally right.

*always, but baby steps

i'm not a misandrist, so no.

[Cekoviu]

*always, but baby steps

i'm not a misandrist, so no.

we'll get u there eventually no worries x

[The Blaatschapen]

Your anger at abuse is righteous anger. I also want to assure you that Pope Francis feels the exact same way you do. He is doing the best he can given the structure of the church and how it operates sacramentally. The fault is not his, the clergy, or even Opus Dei.

The ultimate problem is the problem of evil. Evil has infiltrated my church.

you're christian, don't you believe that evil has infiltrated everything since the fall?

Wow, evil works quick. Fall has only been around for less than a month on the northern hemisphere.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

i'm not a misandrist, so no.

we'll get u there eventually no worries x

who is we? you're the only misandrist in this thread.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

you're christian, don't you believe that evil has infiltrated everything since the fall?

Wow, evil works quick. Fall has only been around for less than a month on the northern hemisphere.

god had the wrong idea with the whole "seasons" thing. eternal summer is the only way to prevent sin.

[Cekoviu]

we'll get u there eventually no worries x

who is we? you're the only misandrist in this thread.

we = me and the other misandrists collectively
i'm assuming you use other websites which do also have misandrists on them

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

who is we? you're the only misandrist in this thread.

we = me and the other misandrists collectively
i'm assuming you use other websites which do also have misandrists on them

I mean, misandrists do use the internet unfortunately. i haven't found/argue with any others. I guess you're just special. Or maybe it's bc I only really argue with people on nsg and your takes are so obviously bad that i don't even need to do 1 google search to prove that they are. it's interesting that you openly admit to being a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against men.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

Ostroeuropa: the term feminist is bad because it's inherently sexist
Cekoviu: the term feminist is bad because it's not inherently sexist