Viva la Chaz! Seattle's Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ)

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Wait a minute. There's a DETROIT autonomous zone?

No, no. One nightmare at a time.

Oh, good. That was a joke when you said "we already have one in Detroit".

[Salus Maior]

I guess I should say "presumed people of color". It's fair, we don't know who did the shootings, and the protests themselves have been diverse.

A jamaican friend of mine went to a protest here, he said most of the "troublemakers" were white kids. (He is my age).

Great anecdote.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Anyway, yeah, most will see this as a failure. An experiment in anarchism which caused death, failed in it's goal, and lasted as long as the Bavarian Soviet Republic.

Edit: Also, did the protesters actually declare the name of their occupation the "Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone", or was that just a term?

[Ifreann]

While you, I'm sure, would never do anything illegal, are you really going to pretend to believe that there is no one who shares your sentiments and might be willing to act on them?

If someone else out there actually has the resources to cut off an entire 6-block city area from food, water, and electricity then honestly that's pretty damn impressive.

By trying to avoid the point you clearly do accept that right wing extremists are obviously going to target the CHAZ because they, like you, desperately hate anarchy.

People are murdered and raped across America. I hope you don't want the whole country to be cut off from food and water.

And yet the rate of those things went up in the CHAZ. We already have one Detroit, unfortunately. We don't need another.

The point is that if your response to stories about murder and rape in the CHAZ is want to see everyone there die slow, horrific deaths without food or clean water, but your response to murder and rape anywhere else in America is not the same then your problem with the CHAZ is not any rape and murder that might be happening there.

If you're going to pretend not to be aware of the many, many times that police officers have killed people and gotten away with it then I suspect it won't be possible to have a productive exchange with you.

I am aware. However, my friend, policing in America is decentralized. What happened in Minneapolis bears no reflection on the Seattle police department's. Different departments have different cultures, policies, etc.

What had the Seattle police department done in this area that's so much worse than killing teenagers, extorting businesses, etc? And why does that neighborhood deserve to be punished by these protestors for it?

Here's a sample.

---

If you're going to pretend not to be aware of the many, many times that police officers have killed people and gotten away with it then I suspect it won't be possible to have a productive exchange with you.

This is pure whataboutism.

No, I'm questioning that poster's assertion about the motives of the police.

You keep taking bits of my posts out of the context of the conversations they're happening in and reading ridiculous things into them. It's very intellectually dishonest.

[Greed and Death]

So the timing of the order to remove the Chop is suspect. It appears she signed the order hours after protesters from the CHOP made noise in front of her house.

[Novus America]

So the timing of the order to remove the Chop is suspect. It appears she signed the order hours after protesters from the CHOP made noise in front of her house.

And this is not just G&D playing games:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mynorthwes ... urkan/amp/

She seemed to tolerate it until it become a threat to her. Hopefully she gets booted out of office next election (or before if there is a legal route to do so).

CHOP may be gone, but she still needs to be held accountable.

[Xmara]

And CHOP is gone.

Press S to shit on grave.

Personally, I think Capitol Hill's brief experiment with semi-independence shows precisely what communists have to bring to the table: rape, murder, extortion, intimidation, assault, and a truly pathetic LARP.

My only regret is that they didn't wall off the entire area and cut off all food, water, and electricity.

You think you could spoiler that seizure-inducing gif?

[West Leas Oros 2]

CHAZ dead yet, or still kicking?

[Xmara]

CHAZ dead yet, or still kicking?

Dead. Police ended it early this morning.

[Novus America]

CHAZ dead yet, or still kicking?

Dead. And gone.

[Thermodolia]

It lasted longer then I thought it would.

You have the relatively weak will of the mayor and city council to thank for that, not to mention several murders (one of a teenager) that pushed things over the edge.

Nah they handled it perfectly. If they went in and forcibly put an end to it at the start, CHAZ would have been seen as martyrs and it would have led to more protests and riots.

No the leadership did the right thing by basically ignoring it and letting it discredit itself

[Thermodolia]

How many of you remember the Bavarian Soviet Republic? Or the free territories in Ukraine?

Me

[Thermodolia]

I guess I should say "presumed people of color". It's fair, we don't know who did the shootings, and the protests themselves have been diverse.

A jamaican friend of mine went to a protest here, he said most of the "troublemakers" were white kids. (He is my age).

It stands to reason that most of CHAZ was white as Seattle is very white and the Capitol Hill area is extremely white and rich.

[West Leas Oros 2]

CHAZ dead yet, or still kicking?

Dead. Police ended it early this morning.

Not sure how to feel about that. On the one hand, I’ll add it to the list of anarchist fails, but on the other, it’s disappointing to see resistance to the US and its police get quashed. Next time try the successful method, anarkiddies. :^)

[Thermodolia]

Dead. Police ended it early this morning.

Not sure how to feel about that. On the one hand, I’ll add it to the list of anarchist fails, but on the other, it’s disappointing to see resistance to the US and its police get quashed. Next time try the successful method, anarkiddies. :^)

Right, it would have been better if the police rode in on T-72s with Soviet Flags awaving

[La Xinga]

The most voted option won. CHAZ was around more than a week, less than a month, but almost a month.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_H ... omous_Zone

[West Leas Oros 2]

I think the next poll should be "How will CHAZ be remembered?".

As utopian anarkiddies who didn’t read their theory, and should have trusted the vanguard before it was too late. :^)

[Ethel mermania]

Not sure how to feel about that. On the one hand, I’ll add it to the list of anarchist fails, but on the other, it’s disappointing to see resistance to the US and its police get quashed. Next time try the successful method, anarkiddies. :^)

Right, it would have been better if the police rode in on T-72s with Soviet Flags awaving

That would have been less expected than the spanish inquisition

[Exalted Inquellian State]

How many of you remember the Bavarian Soviet Republic? Or the free territories in Ukraine?

Me

Yeah, as mentioned before, it will likely go down as a mix of the Free Territories and socialist Bavaria. An epic fail that will be forgotten in a few years. You being the only one to know about them proves my point.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Not sure how to feel about that. On the one hand, I’ll add it to the list of anarchist fails, but on the other, it’s disappointing to see resistance to the US and its police get quashed. Next time try the successful method, anarkiddies. :^)

Right, it would have been better if the police rode in on T-72s with Soviet Flags awaving

[Grand Hellenic Republic]

Technicalities can be fun, but if you don't agree then perhaps consider that the CHAZ is not comparable to a country for more reasons than just technicalities. The CHAZ is being targetted for violent attacks by right wing extremists who apparently cannot tolerate any area not being subject police authority. You may as well talk about the murder rate in New York on the 11th of September 2001. Does that make for a fair assessment of the safety provided by a large police force? Exceptional circumstances cannot be fairly compared to ordinary circumstances, and the very existence of the CHAZ is an exceptional circumstance.

Technicalities are only fun when they provide the people making them wiggle room to make their arguments not logically broken, for everyone else they are mildly annoying and useless. I do not care to defend ideas purely because of the people opposing them or their political orientations, if something is indefensible, and not that important anyway, I will not die on its hill. I would recommend doing the same.

"The CHAZ" wouldn't know what violence is if the term came out of the dictionary and slapped them across the face. This is visible by the people who were "manning" it, a bunch of pasty white middle-class kiddos LARPing as revolutionaries, who haven't seen a single punch being thrown in their entire collective existence on this not-so-green-anymore earth.

This experiment is another example that pure anarchy does not work in any conceivable way possible and yet I know that no one actually commited to that ideology will take any lesson from it, cause "real communism/anarchy/whatever has never ever ever been actually tried, all these attempts were taken off-road and that why they fail!!"

Does policing have big flaws? yes. Does capitalism have big flaws? yes. Does our entire system in the western world have some big flaws? oh yes.
This is not a solution to any of these though, this is shit (pardon my language).

[Grand Hellenic Republic]

Not sure how to feel about that. On the one hand, I’ll add it to the list of anarchist fails, but on the other, it’s disappointing to see resistance to the US and its police get quashed. Next time try the successful method, anarkiddies. :^)

Maybe try not to appeal so much to the urban white middle class kids and appeal to the actual working class?

This. You are losing them to the "far-right xenophobes" and, to a lesser degree, to actual orthodox marxist parties all across the western world. Want to get anyhing done? make concessions to get them back on your side.

[Thermodolia]

Not sure how to feel about that. On the one hand, I’ll add it to the list of anarchist fails, but on the other, it’s disappointing to see resistance to the US and its police get quashed. Next time try the successful method, anarkiddies. :^)

Maybe try not to appeal so much to the urban white middle class kids and appeal to the actual working class?

Hey me and WLO aren’t anarchists who think working class whites are racist

[West Leas Oros 2]

Maybe try not to appeal so much to the urban white middle class kids and appeal to the actual working class?

This. You are losing them to the "far-right xenophobes" and, to a lesser degree, to actual orthodox marxist parties all across the western world. Want to get anyhing done? make concessions to get them back on your side.

“Maybe continued demonization of proletarians based on capitalistic concepts of identity and their refusal to accept my dogmatic, utopian worldview will convince them that we’re the good guys! If that doesn’t work, maybe I’ll throw incendiary bombs at random people and buildings!”

Praxis 100

[Grand Hellenic Republic]

“Maybe continued demonization of proletarians based on capitalistic concepts of identity and their refusal to accept my dogmatic, utopian worldview will convince them that we’re the good guys! If that doesn’t work, maybe I’ll throw incendiary bombs at random people and buildings!”

Praxis 100

I dont know who you are arguing with but it surely is not me