NationStates

Nakena wrote:Some Business Owners have been asked to pay a "fee" to the new masters of the CHAZ.

Nakena wrote:Some Business Owners have been asked to pay a "fee" to the new masters of the CHAZ.

Cisairse wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Right, I must've missed the part where he was democratically elected in a fair and open system while his every move is under intense public scrutiny with an established system of checks and balances in place to prevent tyranny and oppression.

I'm not sure why you believe that consent to a power structure can only be expressed via democratic elections. That's very inconsistent with how political theorists have more or less always used the term "consent."

The people of North Korea express their consent for the regime by following its orders. The entire populace could, at any given point, just decide that they don't give a fuck about Kim and either die violent deaths or actually depose him. That they do not do this, and thus implicitly give their consent for his ruling over them, is how Kim remains in power.

Cisairse wrote:You don't have power without consent of the governed. These """warlords""" have no more power than the rest of the people will give them, which, as you can imagine, probably isn't much.

Cisairse wrote:"Although this is in dispute and hasn’t been substantiated" seems like a pretty fucking important detail to leave out when you make resolute claims that aren't backed by the link you posted.

Cisairse wrote:

Nakena wrote:Some Business Owners have been asked to pay a "fee" to the new masters of the CHAZ.

"Although this is in dispute and hasn’t been substantiated" seems like a pretty fucking important detail to leave out when you make resolute claims that aren't backed by the link you posted.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Cisairse wrote:
"Although this is in dispute and hasn’t been substantiated" seems like a pretty fucking important detail to leave out when you make resolute claims that aren't backed by the link you posted.

How many times has the WSJ published fluff?

Protection money is common in many areas of the world.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Cisairse wrote:
I'm not sure why you believe that consent to a power structure can only be expressed via democratic elections. That's very inconsistent with how political theorists have more or less always used the term "consent."

The people of North Korea express their consent for the regime by following its orders. The entire populace could, at any given point, just decide that they don't give a fuck about Kim and either die violent deaths or actually depose him. That they do not do this, and thus implicitly give their consent for his ruling over them, is how Kim remains in power.

Probably because they've been brainwashed all their lives to believe he's an all-powerful god who knows when they've been super-super-bad traitor double-thinkers and believe any attempt to try and stage a rebellion is literally impossible because they don't know any better.

You can't consent to something when you've been denied exposure to an alternative.

Pangurstan wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
How are you going to pay for them?

With money

Greed and Death wrote:The real problem arises that the Russian mafia controls that area and will likely not take kindly to this shit.

I suspect sometime next month leadership is knocked off. Time these kids learn how the real world works.

Vetalia wrote:

Cisairse wrote:"Although this is in dispute and hasn’t been substantiated" seems like a pretty fucking important detail to leave out when you make resolute claims that aren't backed by the link you posted.

Right, because business owners subject to an extortion racket are going to substantiate their claims in an area with no police protection. You goofballs really do live in clown world...face it, the CHAZ has degenerated into a warlord/gangster raubwirtschaft autocracy in a single day.

Vetalia wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:The real problem arises that the Russian mafia controls that area and will likely not take kindly to this shit.

I suspect sometime next month leadership is knocked off. Time these kids learn how the real world works.

I doubt the Russian mafia will have much concern about the shortage of vegan products, either. The story of CHAZ is a bunch of soyboys declared independence and got a dose of reality, Third World style.

Cisairse wrote:There is quite literally no evidence for that.

Go watch the actual video of the CHAZ I posted earlier and tell me if that looks like a "warlord/gangster raubwirtschaft autocracy."

Nakena wrote:Theres various political and criminal groups and individuals who will taking advantage of the CHAZ in both the long and short run.

The needles and the junkies are already a foreshadowing.

Cisairse wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Probably because they've been brainwashed all their lives to believe he's an all-powerful god who knows when they've been super-super-bad traitor double-thinkers and believe any attempt to try and stage a rebellion is literally impossible because they don't know any better.

You can't consent to something when you've been denied exposure to an alternative.

That's...not how things work, at all.

The term "consent" here isn't the same as like consent in sex or what the loonies in the Libertarian Party USA think the taxation system should be based on.
It means that state apparatus can only exist in the context of a society which approves of it enough to be either complicit or actively involved in its perpetuation. Whether that consent is informed or not is irrelevant, it's still required, because if it suddenly no longer existed then the power structures governing the society would be dissolved.

You could make the argument that expressing citizen consent by whether or not the people aren't literally killing themselves to exit a regime means that the society is a pretty terrible one, and you'd be correct; however, a society being pretty terrible doesn't mean that it isn't being perpetuated by people consenting to that society.

Likewise in the CHAZ, a militia having a monopoly on the ability to use force doesn't mean that that militia is some all-powerful """""warlord""""". There is no power structure whereas that militia is imposing a regime on other members of the CHAZ.

Vetalia wrote:

Cisairse wrote:There is quite literally no evidence for that.

Go watch the actual video of the CHAZ I posted earlier and tell me if that looks like a "warlord/gangster raubwirtschaft autocracy."

I don't waste my time with propaganda videos, answer my question - why would anyone be reporting extortion if everything is A-OK and the CHAZ is a big happy family?

Vetalia wrote:

Cisairse wrote:There is quite literally no evidence for that.

Go watch the actual video of the CHAZ I posted earlier and tell me if that looks like a "warlord/gangster raubwirtschaft autocracy."

I don't waste my time with propaganda videos, answer my question - why would anyone be reporting extortion if everything is A-OK and the CHAZ is a big happy family?

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Republicans! Fox News! Trump! Fascists!

Did I cover all the excuses?

Vetalia wrote:

Cisairse wrote:There is quite literally no evidence for that.

Go watch the actual video of the CHAZ I posted earlier and tell me if that looks like a "warlord/gangster raubwirtschaft autocracy."

I don't waste my time with propaganda videos, answer my question - why would anyone be reporting extortion if everything is A-OK and the CHAZ is a big happy family?

Cisairse wrote:

Vetalia wrote:
I don't waste my time with propaganda videos, answer my question - why would anyone be reporting extortion if everything is A-OK and the CHAZ is a big happy family?

Because rightists and Republicans are determined to discredit the CHAZ as much as possible.

Remember the fabrication that started spreading the other day that the CHAZ had "run out of food"? Total lie, made up by righists to try and get public opinion turned away from the zone.

Vetalia wrote:

Nakena wrote:Theres various political and criminal groups and individuals who will taking advantage of the CHAZ in both the long and short run.

The needles and the junkies are already a foreshadowing.

Starvation, lawlessness, crime, drug abuse, extortion, criminal gangs headed by armed warlords running amok, what's not to love? For that matter, how much is on the shelves of that free store right now? Bet it doesn't look like it did yesterday!

Cisairse wrote:

Vetalia wrote:
I don't waste my time with propaganda videos, answer my question - why would anyone be reporting extortion if everything is A-OK and the CHAZ is a big happy family?

Because rightists and Republicans are determined to discredit the CHAZ as much as possible.

Remember the fabrication that started spreading the other day that the CHAZ had "run out of food"? Total lie, made up by righists to try and get public opinion turned away from the zone.

Cisairse wrote:Because rightists and Republicans are determined to discredit the CHAZ as much as possible.

Remember the fabrication that started spreading the other day that the CHAZ had "run out of food"? Total lie, made up by righists to try and get public opinion turned away from the zone.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Cisairse wrote:
Because rightists and Republicans are determined to discredit the CHAZ as much as possible.

Remember the fabrication that started spreading the other day that the CHAZ had "run out of food"? Total lie, made up by righists to try and get public opinion turned away from the zone.

And who "proved" that it was a lie and how? A neutral third party, or "CHAZ"?

Nakena wrote:Funfact that the Zapatistas (argueably one of the more sucessfull groups) are very strictly enforcing their laws and rules on their turf. They do not tolerate drunkenness etc in their area. I do not believe that Cisairse would be supportive of that. ; D