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Viva la Chaz! Seattle's Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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How long do you think the CHAZ will continue to last for?

Not past the day after tomorrow
39
11%
Less than a week
65
19%
More than a week, less than a month
132
38%
More than one month, but not past August
62
18%
Into the Fall, but not the Winter
19
6%
Into Winter, or even 2021, or beyond
28
8%
 
Total votes : 345

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Exalted Inquellian State
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:15 am

-Ocelot- wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Come to think of it, this thread is full of people saying that the CHAZ needs to be violently dismantled. That the police need to storm the place or soldiers need to be sent in. Perhaps the shootings in the CHAZ are happening not because the absence of cops has lead to rampant violence, but because some people are willing to put action to the sentiments we have seen expressed here.


I don't get why anti-anarchists would want the police to storm the place. If anything, they should promote the existence of CHAZ and let it give birth to more and more examples of why anarchism is horrible.

Isn't that unethical?
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Xmara
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Postby Xmara » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:58 am

Xmara wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/29/us/chop-seattle-shooting/index.html

Another shooting in CHAZ leaves one man dead and a 14 year old boy injured

Update: the individual killed was only 16 years old

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53224445
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:51 am

Xmara wrote:
Xmara wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/29/us/chop-seattle-shooting/index.html

Another shooting in CHAZ leaves one man dead and a 14 year old boy injured

Update: the individual killed was only 16 years old

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53224445

You know I posted this 2 hours before you including noting the dead kid was 16.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:58 am

-Ocelot- wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Come to think of it, this thread is full of people saying that the CHAZ needs to be violently dismantled. That the police need to storm the place or soldiers need to be sent in. Perhaps the shootings in the CHAZ are happening not because the absence of cops has lead to rampant violence, but because some people are willing to put action to the sentiments we have seen expressed here.


I don't get why anti-anarchists would want the police to storm the place. If anything, they should promote the existence of CHAZ and let it give birth to more and more examples of why anarchism is horrible.

You'd have to ask them, but my guess would be that the CHAZ is actually getting along fine and isn't a horrible place.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
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You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Galloism
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:02 am

Ifreann wrote:
-Ocelot- wrote:
I don't get why anti-anarchists would want the police to storm the place. If anything, they should promote the existence of CHAZ and let it give birth to more and more examples of why anarchism is horrible.

You'd have to ask them, but my guess would be that the CHAZ is actually getting along fine and isn't a horrible place.

Which is why residents and business owners in CHAZ are literally suing the city over its inaction - because it's getting along fine and isn't a horrible place.
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United Dependencies
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Founded: Oct 22, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby United Dependencies » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:05 am

I would be curious to know the number of shooting incidents this area has averaged in the past over a one month span.
"Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?"
-- Abraham Lincoln

Alien Space Bats wrote:2012: The Year We Lost Contact (with Reality).

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Obamacult wrote:Maybe there is an economically sound and rational reason why there are no longer high paying jobs for qualified accountants, assembly line workers, glass blowers, blacksmiths, tanners, etc.

Maybe dragons took their jobs. Maybe unicorns only hid their jobs because unicorns are dicks. Maybe 'jobs' is only an illusion created by a drug addled infant pachyderm. Fuck dude, if we're in 'maybe' land, don't hold back.

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-Ocelot-
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Postby -Ocelot- » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:06 am

Galloism wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You'd have to ask them, but my guess would be that the CHAZ is actually getting along fine and isn't a horrible place.

Which is why residents and business owners in CHAZ are literally suing the city over its inaction - because it's getting along fine and isn't a horrible place.


Give it enough time and the whole area will shut down. Anyone who isn't there to steal is going to leave, sooner or later.
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Auze
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Postby Auze » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:12 am

Ifreann wrote:
-Ocelot- wrote:
I don't get why anti-anarchists would want the police to storm the place. If anything, they should promote the existence of CHAZ and let it give birth to more and more examples of why anarchism is horrible.

You'd have to ask them, but my guess would be that the CHAZ is actually getting along fine and isn't a horrible place.

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Greed and Death
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:15 am

Galloism wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You'd have to ask them, but my guess would be that the CHAZ is actually getting along fine and isn't a horrible place.

Which is why residents and business owners in CHAZ are literally suing the city over its inaction - because it's getting along fine and isn't a horrible place.


But do these law suits include the homeless who moved in and setting up tents and enjoyed the free food ?

It seems pretty biased not to include the opinions of the homeless who have received free stuff out of the arrangement.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:19 am

United Dependencies wrote:I would be curious to know the number of shooting incidents this area has averaged in the past over a one month span.

My understanding is that there's been three shootings in the CHAZ and one nearby that is also being blamed on the CHAZ for some reason.


Auze wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You'd have to ask them, but my guess would be that the CHAZ is actually getting along fine and isn't a horrible place.

"They're not even [within] 100 miles [of Baghdad]. They are not in any place. They hold no place in Iraq. This is an illusion ... they are trying to sell to the others an illusion." - Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, as American tanks are heard in the background

Feel free to disregard what I say and investigate for yourself the reports from people actually in the CHAZ.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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United Dependencies
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Founded: Oct 22, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby United Dependencies » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:21 am

Ifreann wrote:
United Dependencies wrote:I would be curious to know the number of shooting incidents this area has averaged in the past over a one month span.

My understanding is that there's been three shootings in the CHAZ and one nearby that is also being blamed on the CHAZ for some reason.

Let me clarify myself: I wonder how that number compares to the month of June in 2019 or 2018.
"Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?"
-- Abraham Lincoln

Alien Space Bats wrote:2012: The Year We Lost Contact (with Reality).

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Obamacult wrote:Maybe there is an economically sound and rational reason why there are no longer high paying jobs for qualified accountants, assembly line workers, glass blowers, blacksmiths, tanners, etc.

Maybe dragons took their jobs. Maybe unicorns only hid their jobs because unicorns are dicks. Maybe 'jobs' is only an illusion created by a drug addled infant pachyderm. Fuck dude, if we're in 'maybe' land, don't hold back.

This is Nationstates we're here to help

Are you a native or resident of North Carolina?

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Ifreann
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Posts: 141504
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:23 am

United Dependencies wrote:
Ifreann wrote:My understanding is that there's been three shootings in the CHAZ and one nearby that is also being blamed on the CHAZ for some reason.

Let me clarify myself: I wonder how that number compares to the month of June in 2019 or 2018.

Ah. Well that I don't know.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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United Dependencies
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Founded: Oct 22, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby United Dependencies » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:28 am

Ifreann wrote:
United Dependencies wrote:Let me clarify myself: I wonder how that number compares to the month of June in 2019 or 2018.

Ah. Well that I don't know.

Neither do I.

I'm also not sure that data which breaks crime down over time on a neighborhood basis is readily available to the public. Would probably have to dig through old police reports and 911 calls which are probably not available online.
"Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?"
-- Abraham Lincoln

Alien Space Bats wrote:2012: The Year We Lost Contact (with Reality).

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Obamacult wrote:Maybe there is an economically sound and rational reason why there are no longer high paying jobs for qualified accountants, assembly line workers, glass blowers, blacksmiths, tanners, etc.

Maybe dragons took their jobs. Maybe unicorns only hid their jobs because unicorns are dicks. Maybe 'jobs' is only an illusion created by a drug addled infant pachyderm. Fuck dude, if we're in 'maybe' land, don't hold back.

This is Nationstates we're here to help

Are you a native or resident of North Carolina?

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:29 am

United Dependencies wrote:
Ifreann wrote:My understanding is that there's been three shootings in the CHAZ and one nearby that is also being blamed on the CHAZ for some reason.

Let me clarify myself: I wonder how that number compares to the month of June in 2019 or 2018.

Not sure. Seattle's a pretty safe city all things considered - they had 28 homicides in all of 2019 in the whole city. There were two in the capitol hill zone for the whole year - which is where Chaz is located.

They actually have a crime dashboard:

https://www.seattle.gov/police/informat ... -dashboard

Basically, with the checkpoint incident and the guy who was shot and died in the street, that's the entire death toll for the capitol hill zone for 2019 matched.
Last edited by Galloism on Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Bitcoinstan
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Founded: Jun 30, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Bitcoinstan » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:35 am

It´s a place of lawlessness. It´s crazy how Seattle´s mayor called it a summer of love. I mean people get murdered there. Raz Simone hands out AR-15s to minors there. That´s crazy. It´s almost like he´s a warlord...

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Xmara
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Postby Xmara » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:10 pm

Bitcoinstan wrote:It´s a place of lawlessness. It´s crazy how Seattle´s mayor called it a summer of love. I mean people get murdered there. Raz Simone hands out AR-15s to minors there. That´s crazy. It´s almost like he´s a warlord...

I’m not exactly pro-CHAZ, but I think you’re over-exaggerating a bit.
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Info
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Status- Code Pink- Pandemic
I mostly use NS stats, except for population and tax rates.
We are not Estonia.
A 16.8 civilization, according to this index.
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:13 pm

Bitcoinstan wrote:It´s a place of lawlessness. It´s crazy how Seattle´s mayor called it a summer of love. I mean people get murdered there. Raz Simone hands out AR-15s to minors there. That´s crazy. It´s almost like he´s a warlord...


You been watching Fox News?
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Crockerland
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Postby Crockerland » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:15 pm

Bitcoinstan wrote:Raz Simone hands out AR-15s to minors there.

WTF I love Raz Simone now
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:53 am

The CHOP is being broken up right now.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-polic ... d=71551625

Ten arrest so far.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:02 am

Greed and Death wrote:The CHOP is being broken up right now.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-polic ... d=71551625

Ten arrest so far.


RIP CHOP

Surprised if anything, that it lasted so long.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:13 am

Greed and Death wrote:The CHOP is being broken up right now.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-polic ... d=71551625

Ten arrest so far.

Following "ongoing violence and public safety issues," Seattle's mayor has issued an executive order to clear the Capitol Hill Organized Protest (CHOP) zone -- a several block, autonomous police-free zone -- and Seattle police enforced the order Wednesday morning.

Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best said in a statement, "This order, and our police response, comes after weeks of violence in and around the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest zone, including four shootings, resulting in multiple injuries and the deaths of two teenagers."

Oh wow, wait till these guys hear about the violence and public safety issues caused by the police.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Novus America
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Posts: 36266
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:34 am

Because this was asked before “Seattle Police say they have had reports of several other violent crimes, noting they've had a report of 65 crimes in the CHOP area in 2020 so far this year compared to 37 in the same area over all of 2019.“
https://www.google.com/amp/s/komonews.c ... tive-order

Professional police do not stop all crimes true, and many need reform BUT a return to vigilante brute squads obviously was not the solution, and obviously made things worse.
Crime skyrocketed under CHOP.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:36 am

Ifreann wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:The CHOP is being broken up right now.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-polic ... d=71551625

Ten arrest so far.

Following "ongoing violence and public safety issues," Seattle's mayor has issued an executive order to clear the Capitol Hill Organized Protest (CHOP) zone -- a several block, autonomous police-free zone -- and Seattle police enforced the order Wednesday morning.

Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best said in a statement, "This order, and our police response, comes after weeks of violence in and around the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest zone, including four shootings, resulting in multiple injuries and the deaths of two teenagers."

Oh wow, wait till these guys hear about the violence and public safety issues caused by the police.

Well, given they had 2 murders in a month, while the same zone in seattle had 2 murders all last year, it sounds like one of these is worse than the other.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Wayneactia
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:55 am

Greed and Death wrote:The CHOP is being broken up right now.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-polic ... d=71551625

Ten arrest so far.

So dad finally came home and said enough was enough huh?

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 141504
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:04 am

Wayneactia wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:The CHOP is being broken up right now.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-polic ... d=71551625

Ten arrest so far.

So dad finally came home and said enough was enough huh?

Your insistence on referring to the protesters as children now seems pretty weird when the police are violently attacking the CHAZ. Like, is that how you want us to think about this situation? Armed and armoured adults beating children? Pretty fucked up shit.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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