Is Antifa a terrorist group and should it be banned?

[Conterale]

This seems like a false dichotomy to me.

Agreed. But again, I may be just a naive idealist to be against all authoritarian assholes (fascists and communists at the same time).

No my Comrade, Authoritarianism is evil no matter who has the stick.

[Sun Wukong]

Agreed. But again, I may be just a naive idealist to be against all authoritarian assholes (fascists and communists at the same time).

No my Comrade, Authoritarianism is evil no matter who has the stick.

Well... I mean...

Unless it's me.

[Picairn]

Well... I mean...

Unless it's me.

"If you want to find out what a man is to the bottom, give him power." - Robert Ingersoll (not Abraham Lincoln, it has been misattributed a lot).

[Alcala-Cordel]

Whoever said ANTIFA should be given any positions of power worries me...

Imagine not wanting antifascists in power

[Picairn]

Imagine not wanting antifascists in power

Antifa right now is like "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". The name has become essentially useless since they started beating people who are not Nazis.

[Narland]

Antifa has been blamed for the looting, chaos and violence in the protests going on around the world. They already were known to be a extremist violent group. Antifa is the anti-fascist organization for those who don’t know. Some people think that they are doing good, but a lot of people think that they themselves are acting like fascists. Wearing black, marching trough the streets with flags and torches, fighting with other groups and people standing in their way. When news try to interview the groups it results in the camera being blocked and the interviewer being hit, freedom of speech is something they don’t like. A bigger and bigger group thinks these extremists and their group should be banned, what do you think?

I do not care what someone self-identifies as. I care about their actions. Anyone who behaves as violent insurrectionists need to be treated accordingly. It doesn't matter who it is, be it the municipal police, the University's Glee Club, Angry Welcome Wagon Hostesses, Major Happy's Midnight Militia, or the Antifa Fascists. Anyone who behaves lawlessly to the harm of of another's life, liberty, and property should be duly charged and convicted by a jury of one's peers in the quickest manner possible without prejudice. Those who encourage acts of lawlessness with violence are danger to themselves and others, and need to be treated accordingly.

Those who are morally vapid enough to violently deny the rights of others as fellow human beings as a matter of course lack the maturity, integrity or responsibility to engage others in civilly in a free and just society and should be treated accordingly -- with straitjackets and and a nice padded cell until their condition improves. It doesn' t matter if they are fellow citizens, government officials, or resident aliens -- anyone who denies anybody their rights as human beings are a clear and present danger. Regardless, Antifa in the US isn't interested in intelligent dialog and behaving civilly. They are interested only in provocation, bullying, and forcing a Neomarxist agenda.

Antifa means antifascist. Many antifascist groups exist and while some are violent, some are peaceful. Criminalizing antifa would basically mean being against fascism is illegal, and it's one of the dumbest things the fucking dipshit we call a president has suggested. What should be asked is "is Rose City Antifa a terror group?" Technically they are because they commit violence for political reasons but they're honestly no more dangerous than a street gang. These guys are pretty embarrassing for terrorists. Don't give them the satisfaction of being labeled terrorists, and don't give our president the power to basically crush out descent under the guise of security.

People claiming to be "Antifascist" and then proceed to use Fascist tactics to intimidate others (such as does Antifa) are just as Fascist as the Fascists they supposedly abhor. Except Antifa (in the US specifically) is ready to call anyone who disagrees with them a Fascist, even if they are not. The ever-loving irony is that Fascist hold in common the same 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto that Marxists advocate and such that Antifa members hold to. It is those 10 planks that start the death, mayhem. and destruction that follows in the inevitable consequences for what Antifa advocates.

Criminalizing Antifa for their fascistic practices does not make it illegal to be Antifascist. Depriving any citizen of their rights has always been a crime, the hard part is making sure those crimes are actively and relentlessly processed. Deprivation of rights under color of authority has since the Civil Rights Act of 1876 applied all citizens regardless of race, creed, color or national origin -- it is a felony (up to 5 years per offence iirc). Imprison of Felony is also felonious crime, and punishable by up to 10 years in Federal Prison.

[Proctopeo]

Imagine not wanting antifascists in power

Antifa right now is like "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". The name has become essentially useless since they started beating people who are not Nazis.

Yes, exactly. Accepting that Antifa is strictly against fascists because it's in the name means accepting more egregious untruths as being completely true. There's countless examples, like Democratic People's Republic of Korea, or the National Socialist German Worker's Party.

[Rusozak]

Whoever said ANTIFA should be given any positions of power worries me...

Imagine not wanting antifascists in power

You keep trying to assert the Antifa movement is the embodiment of anti-fascism and everyone against them must therefore be a fascist. You're just using it as a weapon. Saying Antifa = anti-fascism so you can label everyone who disagrees with the extremist communist agenda a fascist and do whatever mental gymnastics you need to do to justify in your head that everyone who thinks different is the enemy.

[Geneviev]

Imagine not wanting antifascists in power

You keep trying to assert the Antifa movement is the embodiment of anti-fascism and everyone against them must therefore be a fascist. You're just using it as a weapon. Saying Antifa = anti-fascism so you can label everyone who disagrees with the extremist communist agenda a fascist and do whatever mental gymnastics you need to do to justify in your head that everyone who thinks different is the enemy.

Antifa is not a movement as much as an abbreviation for antifascist. So there is no extremist communist agenda in antifa, but some people who call themselves antifa might have such beliefs in addition to antifascism.

[The Alma Mater]

Imagine not wanting antifascists in power

Antifa right now is like "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". The name has become essentially useless since they started beating people who are not Nazis.

Beating up collaborators is a time-honoured tradition though. Heck, during the war those were treated far worse than the actual nazis by the resistance.

Of course, the question then becomes if waving the flag of a nation filled with systemic racism at an anti-racism protest counts as being a collaborator.

[Rusozak]

Antifa right now is like "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". The name has become essentially useless since they started beating people who are not Nazis.

Beating up collaborators is a time-honoured tradition though. Heck, during the war those were treated far worse than the actual nazis by the resistance.

Of course, the question then becomes if waving the flag of a nation filled with systemic racism at an anti-racism protest counts as being a collaborator.

In their black and white logic, yes. If you disagree with them, you are a fascist, apparently.

[The Alma Mater]

Beating up collaborators is a time-honoured tradition though. Heck, during the war those were treated far worse than the actual nazis by the resistance.

Of course, the question then becomes if waving the flag of a nation filled with systemic racism at an anti-racism protest counts as being a collaborator.

In their black and white logic, yes. If you disagree with them, you are a fascist, apparently.

To be fair, to many the American flag does represent things like massmurder, oppression etc. Just ask a few native Americans. Or protesters at a BLM rally. Or someone in the Middle East whose family was bombed into oblivion.

If one then politely asks someone to not wave it at a protest against those things and the person still continues ...

[Picairn]

Beating up collaborators is a time-honoured tradition though. Heck, during the war those were treated far worse than the actual nazis by the resistance.

Of course, the question then becomes if waving the flag of a nation filled with systemic racism at an anti-racism protest counts as being a collaborator.

"Collaborators"? Who are they and what kind of metrics did you use to label them as such? Remember that Antifa once beat up a liberal carrying the American flag. Do you call him a collaborator for the actual Nazis?

And since when carrying a flag equals collaboration? A flag represents the values the country stands for. Since when did America stand for racism and fascism?

[Cisairse]

Since when did America stand for racism and fascism?

You're really not going to like the answer to that question.

[Picairn]

To be fair, to many the American flag does represent things like massmurder, oppression etc. Just ask a few native Americans. Or protesters at a BLM rally. Or someone in the Middle East whose family was bombed into oblivion.

If one then politely asks someone to not wave it at a protest against those things and the person still continues ...

Dude, all nations' flags have atrocities associated with them. Doesn't mean it's okay to assault a person carrying it peacefully.

[Picairn]

You're really not going to like the answer to that question.

What is that answer? The only type of answers I don't like is dishonest ones.

[Proctopeo]

You're really not going to like the answer to that question.

What is that answer? The only type of answers I don't like is dishonest ones.

Well, good news, your answer to that question is a dishonest one!

[Cisairse]

You're really not going to like the answer to that question.

What is that answer? The only type of answers I don't like is dishonest ones.

Racism is built deep into the foundations of America. Even large parts of the United States Constitution were written specifically to support institutional racism and racist slavery.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Imagine not wanting antifascists in power

Antifa right now is like "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". The name has become essentially useless since they started beating people who are not Nazis.

Antifa is an adjective, not a group.

[The Alma Mater]

Beating up collaborators is a time-honoured tradition though. Heck, during the war those were treated far worse than the actual nazis by the resistance.

Of course, the question then becomes if waving the flag of a nation filled with systemic racism at an anti-racism protest counts as being a collaborator.

"Collaborators"? Who are they and what kind of metrics did you use to label them as such? Remember that Antifa once beat up a liberal carrying the American flag. Do you call him a collaborator for the actual Nazis?

That is the incident I am referencing yes. They pointed out to him that said flag in that context was a symbol of hatred, asked him to put it away and he refused and continued to wave it.

Do I support them beating him up over it ? No. But pretending he was completely innocent "because he was a Biden supporter" is also unfair.

[Picairn]

Racism is built deep into the foundations of America. Even large parts of the United States Constitution were written specifically to support institutional racism and racist slavery.

Doesn't mean that America proudly use racism as its values. Heck, ALL countries's flags have had atrocities associated with them. I wonder how many citizens of more than 300 countries across the world wil flip out if I come to each nation and say "your flag stands for this evil thing because your country committed an atrocity in the past"?

Also, you do realize that the majority of the Founding Fathers were against slavery, correct? The 3/5th Compromise was their best attempt in both stopping the spread of slavery and perserving the young Union altogether. Not to mention Americans have paid the price of slavery with 1 million bodybags 155 years ago. Since then America has fought hard for equal rights between races, with 13th, 14th, 15th Amendment, Civil Rights Acts, healthcare and welfare benefits for minorities, etc etc. I call BS on "Racism is built deep into the foundations of America". The actions of the few doesn't repudiate the efforts of the majority to destroy racism for over a hundred years. The US Constitution has also explicitly rendered all slavery clauses null and void.

[Picairn]

Antifa is an adjective, not a group.

Are you seriously deploying semantics to defend the violent actions that have been associated with a group? Antifa may not be a permanent organization, but they do rally behind a common cause and use social media to communicate and organize events, which makes them a group.

[Salus Maior]

"Collaborators"? Who are they and what kind of metrics did you use to label them as such? Remember that Antifa once beat up a liberal carrying the American flag. Do you call him a collaborator for the actual Nazis?

That is the incident I am referencing yes. They pointed out to him that said flag in that context was a symbol of hatred, asked him to put it away and he refused and continued to wave it.

Do I support them beating him up over it ? No. But pretending he was completely innocent "because he was a Biden supporter" is also unfair.

That's ridiculous.

The flag is the symbol of this nation, whose principles have also fueled the racial equality movement even in the Antebellum. Yes, our country has also done wrong, but it cannot be doubted that it was the founding principles of this country which convicted people into pursuing racial equality.

[Picairn]

That is the incident I am referencing yes. They pointed out to him that said flag in that context was a symbol of hatred, asked him to put it away and he refused and continued to wave it.

Do I support them beating him up over it ? No. But pretending he was completely innocent "because he was a Biden supporter" is also unfair.

Waving an American flag does not equal collaboration for the actual Nazis, no matter how hard Antifa protestors tried to twist the meaning of words.

[Cisairse]

Racism is built deep into the foundations of America. Even large parts of the United States Constitution were written specifically to support institutional racism and racist slavery.

Doesn't mean that America proudly use racism as its values.

Well, it's government certainly does, and the flag is decided by the government.

Heck, ALL countries's flags have had atrocities associated with them.

I don't believe that's true.

Also, you do realize that the majority of the Founding Fathers were against slavery, correct? The 3/5th Compromise was their best attempt in both stopping the spread of slavery and perserving the young Union altogether. Not to mention Americans have paid the price of slavery with 1 million bodybags 155 years ago. Since then America has fought hard for equal rights between races, with 13th, 14th, 15th Amendment, Civil Rights Acts, healthcare and welfare benefits for minorities, etc etc. I call BS on "Racism is built deep into the foundations of America". The actions of the few doesn't repudiate the efforts of the majority to destroy racism for over a hundred years. The US Constitution has also explicitly rendered all slavery clauses null and void.

If the majority of the Founding Fathers were against slavery, then abolition would have passed a majority vote at the Constitutional Convention. It didn't.
The truth is a majority of the Founding Fathers were either pro-slavery or legitimately ambivalent. Few northerners were explicitly and vocally anti-slavery.

Also, I would like to point out that in your statement "America has fought hard for equal rights between races, with 13th, 14th, 15th Amendment, Civil Rights Acts, healthcare and welfare benefits for minorities" you completely failed to acknowledge that the "fight" is against other Americans, and oftentimes high-ranking members of the American government. Institutional racism exists to this day, and in fact a large number of Americans not only remain openly racist, but they support openly racist politicians who ascend to high office.

If you're unfamiliar with the level to which racism has influenced American history, I have several articles that collect a linear narrative out of the topic which may interest you.