NationStates

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:

San Lumen wrote:
I want to see the receipts.

The what? It’s common knowledge to anyone who follows the Syrian War news. The FSA opposes Syria’s secularism, Assad is an authoritarian secularist who is doing everything in his power to keep Syria from falling to the hands of radical Islamists.

The US shouldn’t have been there in the first place, but even if we were, we were on the wrong side.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Syria

Doesn't sound terribly secular to me.

Valrifell wrote:

San Lumen wrote:
Thank you for that. To clarify when I said not heard of I meant Armenia being considered part of the Middle East.

That's awful that occurred. I know there is a a lot denial that it happened which is even more atrocious.

But the Armenian genocide didn't happen in Armenia, it happened in Turkey, which is generally considered pretty Middle Eastern.

There used to be Armenians from as far south as where Jordan is to as far north as the caucuses. Armenia today is as much a remnant of Armenian culture as Ireland today is a remnant of Celtic culture. The Armenians are a middle eastern people. Always were.

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:

San Lumen wrote:
I want to see the receipts.

The what? It’s common knowledge to anyone who follows the Syrian War news. The FSA opposes Syria’s secularism, Assad is an authoritarian secularist who is doing everything in his power to keep Syria from falling to the hands of radical Islamists.

The US shouldn’t have been there in the first place, but even if we were, we were on the wrong side.

No need to be on Assad's side. Putin is dirtying his hands with that.

And he'll get a loyal ally or satellite state. I'm not too worried.

Valrifell wrote:

San Lumen wrote:
Thank you for that. To clarify when I said not heard of I meant Armenia being considered part of the Middle East.

That's awful that occurred. I know there is a a lot denial that it happened which is even more atrocious.

But the Armenian genocide didn't happen in Armenia, it happened in Turkey, which is generally considered pretty Middle Eastern.

Forced to death march by military escorts, the majority of the victims were deprived of food and water and subjected to periodic robbery, rape, and massacre throughout the long walk into the Syrian deserts to die, a place also generally considered to be a part of the Middle East.

San Lumen wrote:

Solvokina wrote:Gabbard should of been the dem candidate

Please tell me your joking. This is a woman who praised Assad.

She didn’t praise him. She said we shouldn’t have gotten involved in a war we didn’t need to be in. That’s not the same as praising him. Unless you think saying he was the least bad option is praising him, and it’s true because we supported literal terrorists

Vassenor wrote:

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:The what? It’s common knowledge to anyone who follows the Syrian War news. The FSA opposes Syria’s secularism, Assad is an authoritarian secularist who is doing everything in his power to keep Syria from falling to the hands of radical Islamists.

The US shouldn’t have been there in the first place, but even if we were, we were on the wrong side.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Syria

Doesn't sound terribly secular to me.

The alleged sectarianism toward sunnis that was spoken about in the article has a link next to it. The link leads to the US state department.

The US state department is the last place I would be getting info about Assad from. I'm not saying Assad is a great guy, but in Assad Syria christians aren't being beheaded in the street or tied together and blown up. That happens in rebel controlled areas. The rebels are islamists whether western media wants to admit it or not, and if Assad fell (he probably won't now since he's basically won the war), Syria would become what Libya is currently. A failed state full of terrorists, oil smugglers, criminals and starving children.

The Reformed American Republic wrote:

Valrifell wrote:
Let's catch you up:

There used to be a lot of Armenians in Western Turkey who were forcefully removed and killed by The Young Turks after WW1, they were predominately Christian as Aremneians are. This was the biggest part of a larger ethnic cleansing in the region, where many other traditionally Christian groups were forced to convert or leave. Greeks, Pontic Greeks, and Assyrians were similarly targeted.

Interestingly there is a progressive news org that calls itself The Young Turks.

After this I guess also perhaps being Turkish.

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:

San Lumen wrote:
I want to see the receipts.

The what? It’s common knowledge to anyone who follows the Syrian War news. The FSA opposes Syria’s secularism, Assad is an authoritarian secularist who is doing everything in his power to keep Syria from falling to the hands of radical Islamists.

The US shouldn’t have been there in the first place, but even if we were, we were on the wrong side.

This is not true.

Syria's Civil War is significantly more complicated than "FSA bad" and "Assad good" and vice versa. Beginning in 2011, Al-Qaeda in Iraq, then led by Al-Baghdadi entered into Syria following its absolute crushing at the hands of the US in Iraq the previous five years after the death of Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi. They had burned most of their goodwill in the Jihadi community following the hotel bombings in Amman and had lost most of their street cred with the death of Zarqawi not long afterwards. Meanwhile, in Damascus, the years of dictatorial repression had caught up the Assad Regime and its response to the protests only worsened the situation. Assad's intelligence forces had pretty much tortured and maimed their way through the opposition and it was coming time to pay the man in response. People were angry. Sunnis, Shiites, and Christians were seen throughout the early days of the protests and they were almost entirely representative of Syria's population. The Assad Regime recognized this unity and specifically escalated the conflict into sectarian violence by specific targeting of Sunnis and Shia populations and used it to divide the opposition (the presence of Hezbollah and the Quds Force is pretty good evidence of this). ISIS and its notably independent offshoot, the Al-Nusra Front quickly exploited the newly sectarian conflict and retreated from Iraq into Syria, and took advantage of the massive amounts of goodwill burned by the US and the West when it failed to intervene in 2013.

I highly recommend reading Black Flags by Joby Warrick before you make those assertions again.

San Lumen wrote:

Solvokina wrote:Gabbard should of been the dem candidate

Please tell me your joking. This is a woman who praised Assad.

Can't be much worse than our politicians who kiss up to Saudi Arabia.

Cisairse wrote:

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:And? Assad is by far the best outcome of the Syrian Civil War, please tell me why Assad is the worse option here?

Because if Assad wins the war then Rojava can't conquer the entirety of Syria and establish a utopian anarcho-socialist Levantine paradise.

Assad has won the war. It’s been over for awhile now

San Lumen wrote:

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:Okay… and? I specifically asked how he’s worse than the other options in the Syrian Civil War, you’re telling me someone who will protect Christians is a monster but borderline Islamists are not?

Have Christians been genocided in any middle eastern country? The answer is no

Did you seriously just ask that question?

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Syria

Doesn't sound terribly secular to me.

The alleged sectarianism toward sunnis that was spoken about in the article has a link next to it. The link leads to the US state department.

The US state department is the last place I would be getting info about Assad from. I'm not saying Assad is a great guy, but in Assad Syria christians aren't being beheaded in the street or tied together and blown up. That happens in rebel controlled areas. The rebels are islamists whether western media wants to admit it or not, and if Assad fell (he probably won't now since he's basically won the war), Syria would become what Libya is currently. A failed state full of terrorists, oil smugglers, criminals and starving children.

You do realise there's much more to that article than just "sectarianism toward sunnis", right?

When you require your head of state to be a given religion, and for that religion's law to be the basis for your nation's own laws, it's hard to argue that you're actually a secular state.

Thermodolia wrote:

Cisairse wrote:Because if Assad wins the war then Rojava can't conquer the entirety of Syria and establish a utopian anarcho-socialist Levantine paradise.

Assad has won the war. It’s been over for awhile now

Well, it's more of Syria is a failed state and Assad maintains control over what little parts of the country he needs to stay alive and wealthy.

No one really won tbh.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Syria

Doesn't sound terribly secular to me.

The alleged sectarianism toward sunnis that was spoken about in the article has a link next to it. The link leads to the US state department.

The US state department is the last place I would be getting info about Assad from. I'm not saying Assad is a great guy, but in Assad Syria christians aren't being beheaded in the street or tied together and blown up. That happens in rebel controlled areas. The rebels are islamists whether western media wants to admit it or not, and if Assad fell (he probably won't now since he's basically won the war), Syria would become what Libya is currently. A failed state full of terrorists, oil smugglers, criminals and starving children.

Saddam Hussein was considered secular, despite himself being minority Sunni and his staff being heavily Sunni (also from his region). He had at least some Shi'ite members of staff.

"Secular" in the ME has to taken to mean "not outright banning other sects or religions" but discrimination is expected.

To tie this back into the original topic, many Americans are tired of the foreign wars that take thousands of innocent lives and make the world a scarier place. Unfortunately Joe Biden was part of an administration that had heavy war mongering tendencies and he supported the war in Iraq, and Trump basically admitted to stealing Syrian oil. This is one of the facets of what the establishment in America is about, which is continuing the status quo. The status quo was so utterly shit that it led to the current era we live in. You see this is how crazy the last several presidents have made America.

Honestly if Biden said that he would cut ties with Saudi Arabia I would vote for him in a heartbeat

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
The alleged sectarianism toward sunnis that was spoken about in the article has a link next to it. The link leads to the US state department.

The US state department is the last place I would be getting info about Assad from. I'm not saying Assad is a great guy, but in Assad Syria christians aren't being beheaded in the street or tied together and blown up. That happens in rebel controlled areas. The rebels are islamists whether western media wants to admit it or not, and if Assad fell (he probably won't now since he's basically won the war), Syria would become what Libya is currently. A failed state full of terrorists, oil smugglers, criminals and starving children.

Saddam Hussein was considered secular, despite himself being minority Sunni and his staff being heavily Sunni (also from his region). He had at least some Shi'ite members of staff.

"Secular" in the ME has to taken to mean "not outright banning other sects or religions" but discrimination is expected.

We have to go with the best of bad options. Assad has tortured and killed thousands of people but so far he doesn't seem to want to fuck with America. The rebels on the other hand are jihadists and sunni jihadists always target us eventually. They're built around the legend of America as the great Satan, and for us to try to take out a strongman who doesn't aggress against us with those guys will surely lead to American deaths.

Cisairse wrote:Honestly if Biden said that he would cut ties with Saudi Arabia I would vote for him in a heartbeat

So Biden will put us on a path to that eventuality. By embracing green energy, we will run clean at home and still produce enough oil for the entire western world.

At that point, Saudi Arabia becomes a footnote.

Cisairse wrote:Honestly if Biden said that he would cut ties with Saudi Arabia I would vote for him in a heartbeat

China and Saudi Arabia both need to be parted wih.

This conversation shows how both major parties are neoconservative parties. This is despite the fact that most Americans don't want to keep fighting wars for Israel in the Middle East. Representative democracy is a joke.

It's hilarious that extremely online liberals have become the biggest advocates of war over the last 3 years.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:To tie this back into the original topic, many Americans are tired of the foreign wars that take thousands of innocent lives and make the world a scarier place. Unfortunately Joe Biden was part of an administration that had heavy war mongering tendencies and he supported the war in Iraq, and Trump basically admitted to stealing Syrian oil. This is one of the facets of what the establishment in America is about, which is continuing the status quo. The status quo was so utterly shit that it led to the current era we live in. You see this is how crazy the last several presidents have made America.

The US House can appoint anyone as Speaker. So the House should now move a motion to delay elections for 4 years. If the Senate agrees and Trump signs it, the House should then hold an election for a new Speaker.

Jimmy Carter 2021!

Cisairse wrote:Honestly if Biden said that he would cut ties with Saudi Arabia I would vote for him in a heartbeat

Saudi Arabia, Israel and Turkey. Three countries we ought to have nothing to do with since Israel is an ethnostate, Saudi Arabia is a sharia state and Turkey is like a hybrid of both of those things.

Vassenor wrote:

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
The alleged sectarianism toward sunnis that was spoken about in the article has a link next to it. The link leads to the US state department.

The US state department is the last place I would be getting info about Assad from. I'm not saying Assad is a great guy, but in Assad Syria christians aren't being beheaded in the street or tied together and blown up. That happens in rebel controlled areas. The rebels are islamists whether western media wants to admit it or not, and if Assad fell (he probably won't now since he's basically won the war), Syria would become what Libya is currently. A failed state full of terrorists, oil smugglers, criminals and starving children.

You do realise there's much more to that article than just "sectarianism toward sunnis", right?

When you require your head of state to be a given religion, and for that religion's law to be the basis for your nation's own laws, it's hard to argue that you're actually a secular state.

IIRC that law was made specifically to avoid mass communal violence in the country. The concept of secularism is very different in the ME, a place where religion is politics, rather than just being a part of politics

Galloism wrote:

Cisairse wrote:Honestly if Biden said that he would cut ties with Saudi Arabia I would vote for him in a heartbeat

So Biden will put us on a path to that eventuality. By embracing green energy, we will run clean at home and still produce enough oil for the entire western world.

At that point, Saudi Arabia becomes a footnote.

It will always be cheaper for Europeans and other allies to import oil from Saudi Arabia or Russia through rail/pipeline than from the US through boat. Unless we sell our oil at a loss or literally give it away.

Idk that sounds fun but I don't think anyone would go for it.

Galloism wrote:

Cisairse wrote:Honestly if Biden said that he would cut ties with Saudi Arabia I would vote for him in a heartbeat

So Biden will put us on a path to that eventuality. By embracing green energy, we will run clean at home and still produce enough oil for the entire western world.

At that point, Saudi Arabia becomes a footnote.

Haven't we been self-sufficient w/r/t oil for decades anyway?