2020 US General Election Thread VII: Summer of Discontent

[Kannap]

Well 3/4 is even worse.

We should have a majority in Congress with a nationwide referendum of 3/5 of the population approving.

Amending the constitution is supposed to be difficult. It shouldn’t be something you can do on a whim. There is also no precedent in the United States for a national referendum nor is there any provision in the constitution allowing for one

Really convenient that the Constitution is nearly impossible to change so that we can't really amend it to make the country a better place or to make progress like other countries have by amending their constitutions.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Okay, so ... acknowledging that the US needs some serious improvement, name a country or two we could be more like.

Federal Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

Nah man. The Soviet Union was a totalitarian hellscape for much of its existence that severely regimented society and controlled most every aspect of human existence within its borders and was completely tone deaf to the safety of its workers and citizens, particularly when it came to its nuclear program (looking at the people who live around Semipalatinsk and also Chernobyl), and Yugoslavia was an absolute ethnic tinderbox that was barely held together til Tito died and then the box was lit on fire.

[San Lumen]

Amending the constitution is supposed to be difficult. It shouldn’t be something you can do on a whim. There is also no precedent in the United States for a national referendum nor is there any provision in the constitution allowing for one

Really convenient that the Constitution is nearly impossible to change so that we can't really amend it to make the country a better place or to make progress like other countries have by amending their constitutions.

It should be difficult. I don’t want it being changed on a whim whenever congress feels like it

[Kannap]

Really convenient that the Constitution is nearly impossible to change so that we can't really amend it to make the country a better place or to make progress like other countries have by amending their constitutions.

It should be difficult. I don’t want it being changed on a whim whenever congress feels like it

That's not what anybody here is suggesting and you know that.

[Thermodolia]

But there was no precedent for it. What’s then is stopping a national referendum to help amend the constitution. So we can ensure that rights like the Right to Marry or the Right to one’s body are enshrined in the constitution.

Wouldn’t that be better than a court case or a law both of which can be overturned?

Yet we passed a constitutional amendment to allow it.

Exactly. So why is it that we can’t change the amending process to better America and Americans even though there is no precedent for it when we gave citizenship to blacks with no precedent for it

On your question You’d have to somehow prove the 14th amendment doesn’t apply to everyone.

It wouldn’t be hard for a court filled with justices hell bent on removing rights of those they don’t like. That’s why we should have an easier system in place to amend the constitution.

Several founding fathers thought as much. Hell Jefferson thought that the people should have a new constitution every new generation because times change.

[Thermodolia]

Really convenient that the Constitution is nearly impossible to change so that we can't really amend it to make the country a better place or to make progress like other countries have by amending their constitutions.

It should be difficult. I don’t want it being changed on a whim whenever congress feels like it

Not according to several founding fathers. And getting 60% of the nation to agree on an amendment isn’t something you can do on a whim

[San Lumen]

Yet we passed a constitutional amendment to allow it.

Exactly. So why is it that we can’t change the amending process to better America and Americans even though there is no precedent for it when we gave citizenship to blacks with no precedent for it

On your question You’d have to somehow prove the 14th amendment doesn’t apply to everyone.

It wouldn’t be hard for a court filled with justices hell bent on removing rights of those they don’t like. That’s why we should have an easier system in place to amend the constitution.

Several founding fathers thought as much. Hell Jefferson thought that the people should have a new constitution every new generation because times change.

You’d likely need an amendment to change the amendment process since it’s written into the constitution.

And the supreme court expanded lgbt rights so I don’t see how it would be overturned.

It should be difficult. I don’t want it being changed on a whim whenever congress feels like it

Not according to several founding fathers. And getting 60% of the nation to agree on an amendment isn’t something you can do on a whim

Some states have that requirement

[Kannap]

Exactly. So why is it that we can’t change the amending process to better America and Americans even though there is no precedent for it when we gave citizenship to blacks with no precedent for it


It wouldn’t be hard for a court filled with justices hell bent on removing rights of those they don’t like. That’s why we should have an easier system in place to amend the constitution.

Several founding fathers thought as much. Hell Jefferson thought that the people should have a new constitution every new generation because times change.

You’d likely need an amendment to change the amendment process since it’s written into the constitution.

And the supreme court expanded lgbt rights so I don’t see how it would be overturned.

Quite easily, actually, the Supreme Court can overturn their own rulings. The only time they cannot overturn their rulings is if the Constitution was amended to match their ruling, since they can't overrule the constitution.

So, yeah, when people like Therm or I say the amendment process should be a bit less restrictive so that referendums can make abortion, same sex marriage, and a large variety of other protections constitutional rights, it's a good thing.

No more of this worry whether or not the current Supreme Court will overturn Roe v. Wade if you make a women's autonomy over her own body a constitutional right.

[San Lumen]

You’d likely need an amendment to change the amendment process since it’s written into the constitution.

And the supreme court expanded lgbt rights so I don’t see how it would be overturned.

Quite easily, actually, the Supreme Court can overturn their own rulings. The only time they cannot overturn their rulings is if the Constitution was amended to match their ruling, since they can't overrule the constitution.

So, yeah, when people like Therm or I say the amendment process should be a bit less restrictive so that referendums can make abortion, same sex marriage, and a large variety of other protections constitutional rights, it's a good thing.

No more of this worry whether or not the current Supreme Court will overturn Roe v. Wade if you make a women's autonomy over her own body a constitutional right.

You’d have to somehow prove the 14th amendment doesn’t apply to certain people

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Quite easily, actually, the Supreme Court can overturn their own rulings. The only time they cannot overturn their rulings is if the Constitution was amended to match their ruling, since they can't overrule the constitution.

So, yeah, when people like Therm or I say the amendment process should be a bit less restrictive so that referendums can make abortion, same sex marriage, and a large variety of other protections constitutional rights, it's a good thing.

No more of this worry whether or not the current Supreme Court will overturn Roe v. Wade if you make a women's autonomy over her own body a constitutional right.

You’d have to somehow prove the 14th amendment doesn’t apply to certain people

I mean, plenty of originalists have been trying to prove exactly that, like the late Justice “the constitution doesn’t apply to women’s rights cuz it doesn’t explicitly say so” Scalia for example.

[Kannap]

You’d have to somehow prove the 14th amendment doesn’t apply to certain people

I mean, plenty of originalists have been trying to prove exactly that, like the late Justice “the constitution doesn’t apply to women’s rights cuz it doesn’t explicitly say so” Scalia for example.

That's how easy it can be. I understand Lumen has hope in all people to be good people, but it could be as simple as "The 14th Amendment doesn't mention gay people, so it doesn't protect gay people"

[Zurkerx]

Several new polls are out:

Marist (A+ Rated):

In Arizona, Biden leads 50% to Trump's 45%; Kelly leads McSally 53% to 41%.

YouGov (B Rated):

Nationally, Biden leads 51% to Trump's 41%;
In Michigan, Biden leads 48% to Trump's 42%;
In Ohio, Trump leads 46% to Biden's 45%.

CNN/SSSR (B/C Rated):

In Arizona, Biden leads 49% to Trump's 45%; Kelly leads McSally 50% to 43%;
In Florida; Biden leads 51% to Trump's 46%;
In Michigan, Biden leads 52% to Trump's 40%; Peters leads James 54% to 38%.

It appears Ohio is a toss-up based, Florida and Arizona lean Democrat, and Michigan is likely to flip although we are now officially 100 days away from the election anything can change. For the Senate Races in Michigan and Arizona, these seats will likely go Democrat, with Democrats retaining the seat in MI and flipping it in Arizona.

[Jerzylvania]

It's too much information and at the same time not enough. What else can Biden say to these people 3 months and a week before election day when he needs their donations to defeat this true threat to democracy which is Donald Trump?

Biden has been quoted twice in the article but if you look at the download there's a bit more. “I come from the corporate state of America, many of you incorporated here,” said Mr. Biden. “It used to be that corporate America had a sense of responsibility beyond just CEO salaries and shareholders.”

“Corporate America has to change its ways. It’s not going to require legislation. I’m not proposing any. We’ve got to think about how we deal people back in.”

Biden is speaking of Delaware as the corporate state, which it is. I think Joe is signaling his expectations are to see improvements in corporate responsibility. That's good. But he's also talking about "re-imagining and rebuilding a new American economy" if you look at the download. So this is Joe sweet talking them politically for financial support and asking for their help after the election to build a better economy that deals people in. That's how a Dem needs to talk to business leaders if he wants to get elected.

You can relax now, Kow.

I agree with this point of view as I was thinking this too! Did you read my mind or something?

Oh heck no. That would be like picking a lock and reading your diary.

[San Lumen]

Several new polls are out:

Marist (A+ Rated):

In Arizona, Biden leads 50% to Trump's 45%; Kelly leads McSally 53% to 41%.

YouGov (B Rated):

Nationally, Biden leads 51% to Trump's 41%;
In Michigan, Biden leads 48% to Trump's 42%;
In Ohio, Trump leads 46% to Biden's 45%.

CNN/SSSR (B/C Rated):

In Arizona, Biden leads 49% to Trump's 45%; Kelly leads McSally 50% to 43%;
In Florida; Biden leads 51% to Trump's 46%;
In Michigan, Biden leads 52% to Trump's 40%; Peters leads James 54% to 38%.

It appears Ohio is a toss-up based, Florida and Arizona lean Democrat, and Michigan is likely to flip although we are now officially 100 days away from the election anything can change. For the Senate Races in Michigan and Arizona, these seats will likely go Democrat, with Democrats retaining the seat in MI and flipping it in Arizona.

Arizona is looking more and more like lean D at this point. I'd be surprised if Biden doesnt win it.

[Ifreann]

I mean, plenty of originalists have been trying to prove exactly that, like the late Justice “the constitution doesn’t apply to women’s rights cuz it doesn’t explicitly say so” Scalia for example.

That's how easy it can be. I understand Lumen has hope in all people to be good people, but it could be as simple as "The 14th Amendment doesn't mention gay people, so it doesn't protect gay people"

The Supreme Court, and I could be wrong here but I'm fairly confident I'm not, doesn't actually have to give any reasoning at all. The majority opinion could be "Eat my entire ass" and what could anyone do about it? Appeal? To who? The decision would stand unless the outrage it generated forced the legislature to legislate to undo their decision.

[San Lumen]

That's how easy it can be. I understand Lumen has hope in all people to be good people, but it could be as simple as "The 14th Amendment doesn't mention gay people, so it doesn't protect gay people"

The Supreme Court, and I could be wrong here but I'm fairly confident I'm not, doesn't actually have to give any reasoning at all. The majority opinion could be "Eat my entire ass" and what could anyone do about it? Appeal? To who? The decision would stand unless the outrage it generated forced the legislature to legislate to undo their decision.

They could but the odds are highly unlikely. They dont overturn precent without a really good reason.

[Rojava Free State]

Trump is pushing me kicking and screaming toward voting for Biden. I swear I can't handle this clown.

[San Lumen]

Trump is pushing me kicking and screaming toward voting for Biden. I swear I can't handle this clown.

Your not alone. Several friends of mine who voted Trump or third party in 2016 said they are voting for Biden simply to get rid of this dictator in the making.

[Ifreann]

The Supreme Court, and I could be wrong here but I'm fairly confident I'm not, doesn't actually have to give any reasoning at all. The majority opinion could be "Eat my entire ass" and what could anyone do about it? Appeal? To who? The decision would stand unless the outrage it generated forced the legislature to legislate to undo their decision.

They could but the odds are highly unlikely. They dont overturn precent without a really good reason.

Right, because they're generally pretty professional and even where they are just trying to enact a political agenda they know well enough not to be totally blatant about it. But they can make corrupt, bullshit decisions. It's possible. You say that they would have to make such and such an argument about the 14th Amendment, but they don't actually have to do that.

[Rojava Free State]

Trump is pushing me kicking and screaming toward voting for Biden. I swear I can't handle this clown.

Your not alone. Several friends of mine who voted Trump or third party in 2016 said they are voting for Biden simply to get rid of this dictator in the making.

I'm coming around to taking the guy who can't remember anything over the guy who thinks the Department of Homeland Security is his Gestapo or Stasi agents.

[San Lumen]

They could but the odds are highly unlikely. They dont overturn precent without a really good reason.

Right, because they're generally pretty professional and even where they are just trying to enact a political agenda they know well enough not to be totally blatant about it. But they can make corrupt, bullshit decisions. It's possible. You say that they would have to make such and such an argument about the 14th Amendment, but they don't actually have to do that.

No they abosutley dont however the odds are very slim. They don't overturn precedent without a very good reason.

[Zurkerx]

Several new polls are out:

Marist (A+ Rated):

In Arizona, Biden leads 50% to Trump's 45%; Kelly leads McSally 53% to 41%.

YouGov (B Rated):

Nationally, Biden leads 51% to Trump's 41%;
In Michigan, Biden leads 48% to Trump's 42%;
In Ohio, Trump leads 46% to Biden's 45%.

CNN/SSSR (B/C Rated):

In Arizona, Biden leads 49% to Trump's 45%; Kelly leads McSally 50% to 43%;
In Florida; Biden leads 51% to Trump's 46%;
In Michigan, Biden leads 52% to Trump's 40%; Peters leads James 54% to 38%.

It appears Ohio is a toss-up based, Florida and Arizona lean Democrat, and Michigan is likely to flip although we are now officially 100 days away from the election anything can change. For the Senate Races in Michigan and Arizona, these seats will likely go Democrat, with Democrats retaining the seat in MI and flipping it in Arizona.

Arizona is looking more and more like lean D at this point. I'd be surprised if Biden doesnt win it.

But it is still within the margin of error, however. I wouldn't get so comfortable just yet on Biden's prospects for winning Arizona, especially since we're hundred days away still. Nonetheless, Trump at this point led Clinton by about 5 points in Arizona so this is surely not a good point for him right now.

Trump is pushing me kicking and screaming toward voting for Biden. I swear I can't handle this clown.

I'm coming around to taking the guy who can't remember anything over the guy who thinks the Department of Homeland Security is his Gestapo or Stasi agents.

I don't blame ya but still, vote for who you think will be the best, even if said choices offered this cycle are, erm, not so great...

Either way, Biden in my view is an upgrade over Trump; almost anyone is really.

[Neutraligon]

I feel bad for whoever takes control from Trump, either this year or in 4.

[Ifreann]

Your not alone. Several friends of mine who voted Trump or third party in 2016 said they are voting for Biden simply to get rid of this dictator in the making.

I'm coming around to taking the guy who can't remember anything over the guy who thinks the Department of Homeland Security is his Gestapo or Stasi agents.

The Gestapo, the Geheime Staatspolizei, State Secret Police, was formed by organising together various Prussian police agencies under the direct control of Göring, and later Himmler, and expanding their remit to cover all of Germany.

Trump is seemingly using agents of the Customs and Border Patrol, the Bureau of Prisons, the Federal Bureau of Investigations, and private contractors under the auspices of the Federal Protective Services to, in theory, protect federal buildings and monuments.

I know some people get very excited when a comparison is made to the Nazis, "Look! Look! The crazy left thinks that Trump is LITERALLY HITLER!", but sometimes things are reminiscent of Nazi Germany.

[San Lumen]

I feel bad for whoever takes control from Trump, either this year or in 4.

I hope its this year. If he gets 4 more years the damage will to great to fix. Republicans will make sure they can never lose another election