2020 US General Election Thread VII: Summer of Discontent

[Gravlen]

Need a source for that.

The cages or Michelle Obama claiming Trump built them? Here's both

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama ... mmigrants/
https://apnews.com/2663c84832a13cdd7a8233becfc7a5f3

The holding cages were built under Obama. However, I think it's worth pointing out a couple of things which made the situations different:

The former first lady was correct, however, in addressing the removal of children from parents at the border.

The Obama administration separated migrant children from families under certain limited circumstances, like when the child’s safety appeared at risk or when the parent had a serious criminal history.

But family separations as a matter of routine came about because of Trump’s “zero tolerance” enforcement policy, which he eventually suspended because of the uproar. Obama had no such policy.

This, in itself, shows that the statement "They watch in horror as children are torn from their families and thrown into cages" isn't false, as it's the "torn from their families" bit which makes it so egregious.

By the way, it's interesting to note that she doesn't actually claim that Trump built the cages in that statement either.


Since you provided two sources, let's point out a few things from the second one as well...

[Obama’s Homeland Security Secretary, Jeh Johnson] said that use of the “cage” detention housing method was supposed to be temporary, and that under the law, children were only supposed to be kept in those facilities for 72 hours before being transferred to the care of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

[...]

In early July 2019, as questions about the health of children in border facilities intensified the Trump administration was criticized for locking up young children in “inhumane” conditions for weeks, and for its overall treatment of immigrants in overcrowded detention facilities. Democratic lawmakers who visited the facilities reported unsanitary, dehumanizing conditions. Meantime, at least seven children had died in custody in the span of a year — an unprecedented number in recent history.

[No State Here]

The cages or Michelle Obama claiming Trump built them? Here's both

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama ... mmigrants/
https://apnews.com/2663c84832a13cdd7a8233becfc7a5f3

The holding cages were built under Obama. However, I think it's worth pointing out a couple of things which made the situations different:

The former first lady was correct, however, in addressing the removal of children from parents at the border.

The Obama administration separated migrant children from families under certain limited circumstances, like when the child’s safety appeared at risk or when the parent had a serious criminal history.

But family separations as a matter of routine came about because of Trump’s “zero tolerance” enforcement policy, which he eventually suspended because of the uproar. Obama had no such policy.

This, in itself, shows that the statement "They watch in horror as children are torn from their families and thrown into cages" isn't false, as it's the "torn from their families" bit which makes it so egregious.

By the way, it's interesting to note that she doesn't actually claim that Trump built the cages in that statement either.


Since you provided two sources, let's point out a few things from the second one as well...

[Obama’s Homeland Security Secretary, Jeh Johnson] said that use of the “cage” detention housing method was supposed to be temporary, and that under the law, children were only supposed to be kept in those facilities for 72 hours before being transferred to the care of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

[...]

In early July 2019, as questions about the health of children in border facilities intensified the Trump administration was criticized for locking up young children in “inhumane” conditions for weeks, and for its overall treatment of immigrants in overcrowded detention facilities. Democratic lawmakers who visited the facilities reported unsanitary, dehumanizing conditions. Meantime, at least seven children had died in custody in the span of a year — an unprecedented number in recent history.

Of course, I don’t think I ever said anything about shifting the blame from Trump, who absolutely deserves criticism for his inhumane policies

But at the same time making the Obamas some sort of liberal icon doesn’t really help either

[No State Here]

Breaking News into our newsroom here at channel 69: Barack Obama not actually the messiah-like savior boomers and young people alike claimed he would be. More at 11.

I have to admit I voted for Obama in 2008 just because he was black, and so did many, many people I know who now are either Bernie progressives now or conservatives

[Valrifell]

The holding cages were built under Obama. However, I think it's worth pointing out a couple of things which made the situations different:

The former first lady was correct, however, in addressing the removal of children from parents at the border.

The Obama administration separated migrant children from families under certain limited circumstances, like when the child’s safety appeared at risk or when the parent had a serious criminal history.

But family separations as a matter of routine came about because of Trump’s “zero tolerance” enforcement policy, which he eventually suspended because of the uproar. Obama had no such policy.

This, in itself, shows that the statement "They watch in horror as children are torn from their families and thrown into cages" isn't false, as it's the "torn from their families" bit which makes it so egregious.

By the way, it's interesting to note that she doesn't actually claim that Trump built the cages in that statement either.


Since you provided two sources, let's point out a few things from the second one as well...

[Obama’s Homeland Security Secretary, Jeh Johnson] said that use of the “cage” detention housing method was supposed to be temporary, and that under the law, children were only supposed to be kept in those facilities for 72 hours before being transferred to the care of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

[...]

In early July 2019, as questions about the health of children in border facilities intensified the Trump administration was criticized for locking up young children in “inhumane” conditions for weeks, and for its overall treatment of immigrants in overcrowded detention facilities. Democratic lawmakers who visited the facilities reported unsanitary, dehumanizing conditions. Meantime, at least seven children had died in custody in the span of a year — an unprecedented number in recent history.

Of course, I don’t think I ever said anything about shifting the blame from Trump, who absolutely deserves criticism for his inhumane policies

But at the same time making the Obamas some sort of liberal icon doesn’t really help either

Obama is a liberal icon, though. Democrats love him.

[-Astoria-]

Need a source for that.

The cages or Michelle Obama claiming Trump built them? Here's both

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama ... mmigrants/
https://apnews.com/2663c84832a13cdd7a8233becfc7a5f3

THE FACTS: The reference to cages is misleading and a matter that Democrats have persistently distorted.

Trump used facilities that were built during the Obama-Biden administration to house children at the border. They are chain-link enclosures inside border facilities where migrants were temporarily housed, separated by sex and age.

At the height of the controversy over Trump’s zero-tolerance policy at the border, photos that circulated online of children in the enclosures generated great anger. But those photos — by The Associated Press — were taken in 2014 and depicted some of the thousands of unaccompanied children held by President Barack Obama.

When that fact came to light, some Democrats and activists who had tweeted the photos deleted their tweets. But prominent Democrats have continued to cite cages for children as a distinctive cruelty of Trump.

The former first lady was correct, however, in addressing the removal of children from parents at the border.

The Obama administration separated migrant children from families under certain limited circumstances, like when the child’s safety appeared at risk or when the parent had a serious criminal history.

But family separations as a matter of routine came about because of Trump’s “zero tolerance” enforcement policy, which he eventually suspended because of the uproar. Obama had no such policy.

Ah.

[Aureumterra]

Breaking News into our newsroom here at channel 69: Barack Obama not actually the messiah-like savior boomers and young people alike claimed he would be. More at 11.

I have to admit I voted for Obama in 2008 just because he was black, and so did many, many people I know who now are either Bernie progressives now or conservatives

As an outsider, I really have a hard time understanding the identity race based politics in the US…

[Loben III]

I have to admit I voted for Obama in 2008 just because he was black, and so did many, many people I know who now are either Bernie progressives now or conservatives

As an outsider, I really have a hard time understanding the identity race based politics in the US…

No need to when you can be called racist for not bending the knee to the fucker.

[Valrifell]

I have to admit I voted for Obama in 2008 just because he was black, and so did many, many people I know who now are either Bernie progressives now or conservatives

As an outsider, I really have a hard time understanding the identity race based politics in the US…

Pretending that all Obama campaigned on was his race is blatantly revisionist, if anything he downplayed his race during 2008.

[-Astoria-]

I have to admit I voted for Obama in 2008 just because he was black, and so did many, many people I know who now are either Bernie progressives now or conservatives

As an outsider, I really have a hard time understanding the identity race based politics in the US…

Same here.

[Gravlen]

The holding cages were built under Obama. However, I think it's worth pointing out a couple of things which made the situations different:

The former first lady was correct, however, in addressing the removal of children from parents at the border.

The Obama administration separated migrant children from families under certain limited circumstances, like when the child’s safety appeared at risk or when the parent had a serious criminal history.

But family separations as a matter of routine came about because of Trump’s “zero tolerance” enforcement policy, which he eventually suspended because of the uproar. Obama had no such policy.

This, in itself, shows that the statement "They watch in horror as children are torn from their families and thrown into cages" isn't false, as it's the "torn from their families" bit which makes it so egregious.

By the way, it's interesting to note that she doesn't actually claim that Trump built the cages in that statement either.


Since you provided two sources, let's point out a few things from the second one as well...

[Obama’s Homeland Security Secretary, Jeh Johnson] said that use of the “cage” detention housing method was supposed to be temporary, and that under the law, children were only supposed to be kept in those facilities for 72 hours before being transferred to the care of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

[...]

In early July 2019, as questions about the health of children in border facilities intensified the Trump administration was criticized for locking up young children in “inhumane” conditions for weeks, and for its overall treatment of immigrants in overcrowded detention facilities. Democratic lawmakers who visited the facilities reported unsanitary, dehumanizing conditions. Meantime, at least seven children had died in custody in the span of a year — an unprecedented number in recent history.

Of course, I don’t think I ever said anything about shifting the blame from Trump, who absolutely deserves criticism for his inhumane policies

But at the same time making the Obamas some sort of liberal icon doesn’t really help either

Hmm... I think this is a good example of how the Republicans tend, when Democrats do something bad, to go "Hold my beer" and do something worse.

[Cannot think of a name]

As an outsider, I really have a hard time understanding the identity race based politics in the US…

Pretending that all Obama campaigned on was his race is blatantly revisionist, if anything he downplayed his race during 2008.

After a while you realize it's just a Mad Lib. Every presidential race in my adult life, the Democratic candidate was accused of running on just one thing.

[Vassenor]

As an outsider, I really have a hard time understanding the identity race based politics in the US…

No need to when you can be called racist for not bending the knee to the fucker.

Meanwhile, in reality...

[No State Here]

As an outsider, I really have a hard time understanding the identity race based politics in the US…

Pretending that all Obama campaigned on was his race is blatantly revisionist, if anything he downplayed his race during 2008.

I never said that’s all he campaigned on. But that was why I voted for him in 2008, purely because he was black

[Vassenor]

Pretending that all Obama campaigned on was his race is blatantly revisionist, if anything he downplayed his race during 2008.

I never said that’s all he campaigned on. But that was why I voted for him in 2008, purely because he was black

Which somehow means everyone did because Identity Politics which is totally a real thing and not a right-wing buzzword.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I never said that’s all he campaigned on. But that was why I voted for him in 2008, purely because he was black

Which somehow means everyone did because Identity Politics which is totally a real thing and not a right-wing buzzword.

The term was literally invented by a commune of black lesbians in the 1970's and was and still is used by the progressive left lol

[Aureumterra]

I never said that’s all he campaigned on. But that was why I voted for him in 2008, purely because he was black

Which somehow means everyone did

Who said that?

[The Black Forrest]

Which somehow means everyone did because Identity Politics which is totally a real thing and not a right-wing buzzword.

The term was literally invented by a commune of black lesbians in the 1970's and was and still is used by the progressive left lol

And the right. They just call it “playing the race card” lol.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The term was literally invented by a commune of black lesbians in the 1970's and was and still is used by the progressive left lol

And the right. They just call it “playing the race card” lol.

I mean, yeah, that's literally what it is most of the time. Either that or the gender or sexuality card. IdPol isn't some mysterious thing invented by the right, you can go read entire body's of work on it.

[The Blaatschapen]

And the right. They just call it “playing the race card” lol.

I mean, yeah, that's literally what it is most of the time. Either that or the gender or sexuality card. IdPol isn't some mysterious thing invented by the right, you can go read entire body's of work on it.

I'd argue that it can also be the religion card.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillarisation

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Pretending that all Obama campaigned on was his race is blatantly revisionist, if anything he downplayed his race during 2008.

I never said that’s all he campaigned on. But that was why I voted for him in 2008, purely because he was black

Do you regret not voting for McCain instead? Or was the alternative for you, not voting at all?

[Andsed]

Some Trump ads have been trying to associate Biden with the radical left. Just imagine thinking that Biden is a radical leftist. Fucking hilarious.

[The Black Forrest]

That's legitimately scary.

I didn't think Bill Clinton sounded too good last night, but he's actually younger than both Trump and Biden.

Shrek came out 19 years ago.

And Bill would probably hit on Fiona.

[Bear Stearns]

Provide evidence of such.



I oppose intervention, be it Vietnam or Iraq. That seems very consistent. Sorry this is hard for you. My post about Nixon indicates I find him preferable to Johnson because the war would have been smaller in scale. That's a consistent position, and given there was no one running who wanted a complete withdrawal, Nixon it is.



Nixon was a complicated person and had a more belligerent foreign policy than I support, but he wasn't really a neocon. Reagan started that.



I think I do, because you're pulling shit out of your ass. See below:



It is an obvious fact that Nixon winning in 1960 means smaller Vietnam War if it even happens. But here's the thing:

What does commenting on the 1960 election have to do with Nixon's actions in Cambodia in 1968 and where is support for those actions derived? Please point it out. I must say though, it is amusing that you have to reach this far to get your internet pwnage points.



Evidently not.



Nobody is bringing up Cambodia but you.

Yes, I mentioned Cambodia, something that you, anti-interventionist should have opposed. I alluded to Nxion's ramping up of Vietnam, which you, anti-interventionist, should have found more egregious than LBJ's marginally smaller escalation. You're not arguing principles, you're arguing aesthetics. There is no serious evidence that Nixon would have moderated himself, and he escalated the hell out of Vietnam.

But tell us more about how you oppose all the neocons all the time.

C'mon man, now you're just making shit it up. You're got really wound up because I called out neocons. Telling.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Some Trump ads have been trying to associate Biden with the radical left. Just imagine thinking that Biden is a radical leftist. Fucking hilarious.

I heard he took a turn being Fidel back in the seventies. He had the beard and the cigar and the crowd didn't seem to know even though Castro gave the speech in English. Some said it was his best speech ever, even though they didn't understand it.

[Rusozak]

Some Trump ads have been trying to associate Biden with the radical left. Just imagine thinking that Biden is a radical leftist. Fucking hilarious.

Joe Biden according to Trump ads: Radical extreme leftist who is always in red light for some reason. Also something about cocaine.