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2020 US General Election Thread VII: Summer of Discontent

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Of All The Parties With 50+ Electoral Votes of Ballot Access, Which Party Do You Prefer?

Republicans
73
23%
Democrats
111
35%
Libertarians
24
8%
Greens
59
19%
Constitution Party
12
4%
Alliance Party
4
1%
Socialism and Liberation
31
10%
 
Total votes : 314

User avatar
Necroghastia
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12763
Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:47 pm

Telconi wrote:
Cordel One wrote:They said themselves the they didn't know the difference, I linked something that would explain it but they ignored it on the basis of distrust. That is absolutely ignorance.


It's not, perhaps you should spend less time consuming communist fables and more time consuming english textbooks?

Said the pot to the kettle.
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Telconi
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Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:48 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Telconi wrote:
It's not, perhaps you should spend less time consuming communist fables and more time consuming english textbooks?

Said the pot to the kettle.


I've quite explicitly rejected communist fables.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Necroghastia
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12763
Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:49 pm

Telconi wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:Said the pot to the kettle.


I've quite explicitly rejected communist fables.

And English textbooks, it seems.
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Dresderstan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7059
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:50 pm

Shrillland wrote:Check your 2020 apocalypse bingo cards, folks, Jo Jorgenson is getting the rabies vaccine after being bitten by a bat in Mississippi: https://time.com/5877803/jo-jorgensen-bat-libertarian-candidate/

Well at least we know she isn't an anti-vaxxer... as far as we know, but getting a shot for rabies is a good sign at least.

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Cordel One
Senator
 
Posts: 4524
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Cordel One » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:50 pm

Telconi wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:Said the pot to the kettle.


I've quite explicitly rejected communist fables.

Maybe you should take the time to learn what communism really is before you reject it...? Just an idea.

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:50 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I've quite explicitly rejected communist fables.

And English textbooks, it seems.


Not to any reasonable person.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:51 pm

Cordel One wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I've quite explicitly rejected communist fables.

Maybe you should take the time to learn what communism really is before you reject it...? Just an idea.


Maybe you should stop making ignorant assumptions about people you hardly know.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Necroghastia
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12763
Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:52 pm

Telconi wrote:
Cordel One wrote:Maybe you should take the time to learn what communism really is before you reject it...? Just an idea.


Maybe you should stop making ignorant assumptions about people you hardly know.

lmao
You can't make this stuff up, folks.
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User avatar
Necroghastia
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12763
Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:54 pm

Telconi wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:And English textbooks, it seems.


Not to any reasonable person.

I would contend that a person who has advocated the assassination of public officials and their families is not a good judge of a "reasonable person," but you do you, Tel.
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The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59123
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:54 pm

Telconi wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:And English textbooks, it seems.


Not to any reasonable person.


Hmph. Time off and back to the usual games. Oh well.
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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:55 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Not to any reasonable person.

I would contend that a person who has advocated the assassination of public officials and their families is not a good judge of a "reasonable person," but you do you, Tel.


I'm so glad I have your permission to retain moral decency, don't know what I would have done without it.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:56 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Not to any reasonable person.


Hmph. Time off and back to the usual games. Oh well.


Who's playing games?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Cordel One
Senator
 
Posts: 4524
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Cordel One » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:58 pm

Telconi wrote:
Cordel One wrote:They said themselves the they didn't know the difference, I linked something that would explain it but they ignored it on the basis of distrust. That is absolutely ignorance.


It's not, perhaps you should spend less time consuming communist fables and more time consuming english textbooks?

I see no reason to exclude communist theory from my knowledge when I am perfectly capable of proficiency in both that and the English language.

Telconi wrote:
Cordel One wrote:Maybe you should take the time to learn what communism really is before you reject it...? Just an idea.


Maybe you should stop making ignorant assumptions about people you hardly know.

Oh, the hypocrisy...
Last edited by Cordel One on Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:59 pm

Cordel One wrote:
Telconi wrote:
It's not, perhaps you should spend less time consuming communist fables and more time consuming english textbooks?

I see no reason to exclude communist theory from my knowledge when I am perfectly capable of proficiency in both that and the English language.


You don't have to exclude it from knowledge to be capable of rejecting it.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Cordel One
Senator
 
Posts: 4524
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Cordel One » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:02 pm

Telconi wrote:
Cordel One wrote:I see no reason to exclude communist theory from my knowledge when I am perfectly capable of proficiency in both that and the English language.


You don't have to exclude it from knowledge to be capable of rejecting it.

I don't, but it's important to know what an ideology is before blindly rejecting it. In the case of communism, I accept it as my ideology because I know what it is.

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:03 pm

Cordel One wrote:
Telconi wrote:
You don't have to exclude it from knowledge to be capable of rejecting it.

I don't, but it's important to know what an ideology is before blindly rejecting it. In the case of communism, I accept it as my ideology because I know what it is.


Who's blindly rejecting it?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45100
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:07 pm

Back five minutes and already reduced the thread to “I know you are but what am I?”

Top tier.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Cordel One
Senator
 
Posts: 4524
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Cordel One » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:09 pm

Telconi wrote:
Cordel One wrote:I don't, but it's important to know what an ideology is before blindly rejecting it. In the case of communism, I accept it as my ideology because I know what it is.


Who's blindly rejecting it?

I might be making this up, but I seem to recall someone opposed to communism saying there was no difference between private and personal property. There's no way anyone who's read up on communism would say that, so that individual must be blindly rejecting it.
Telconi wrote:
Loben III wrote:
whats the differance?


There isn't one.

Oh, wait...
Last edited by Cordel One on Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:09 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:Back five minutes and already reduced the thread to “I know you are but what am I?”

Top tier.


Your adoration is as unnerving as it is unwelcome.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:10 pm

Cordel One wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Who's blindly rejecting it?

I might be making this up, but I seem to recall someone opposed to communism saying there was no difference between private and personal property. There's no way anyone who's read up on communism would say that, so that individual must be blindly rejecting it.


Again, it's possible to read something, and also reject it's truthfulness.

If you don't think that, please never pick up a copy of Mein Kampf.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Cordel One
Senator
 
Posts: 4524
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Cordel One » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:20 pm

Telconi wrote:
Cordel One wrote:I might be making this up, but I seem to recall someone opposed to communism saying there was no difference between private and personal property. There's no way anyone who's read up on communism would say that, so that individual must be blindly rejecting it.


Again, it's possible to read something, and also reject it's truthfulness.

If you don't think that, please never pick up a copy of Mein Kampf.

The Marxist definitions of private and personal property are just classifications on what communists believe should and shouldn't be publicly owned. You can debate many other things Marx said, but you can't say we don't see a difference between the two.

I have read Mein Kampf by the way, I rejected fascism and Nazism based on the atrocious things they actually believe, not some weird strawman.


I don't want to make a new spammy comment but I'd like to say I do acknowledge the Farnhamia's post and will let it go as I don't want to threadjack.
Last edited by Cordel One on Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 112545
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:22 pm

Cordel One wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Again, it's possible to read something, and also reject it's truthfulness.

If you don't think that, please never pick up a copy of Mein Kampf.

The Marxist definitions of private and personal property are just classifications on what communists believe should and shouldn't be publicly owned. You can debate many other things Marx said, but you can't say we don't see a difference between the two.

I have read Mein Kampf by the way, I rejected fascism and Nazism based on what they actually believe, not some weird strawman.

Let it go. You've made your point, he's made his. Don't turn this into a thread-jack.
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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:24 pm

Cordel One wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Again, it's possible to read something, and also reject it's truthfulness.

If you don't think that, please never pick up a copy of Mein Kampf.

The Marxist definitions of private and personal property are just classifications on what communists believe should and shouldn't be publicly owned. You can debate many other things Marx said, but you can't say we don't see a difference between the two.

I have read Mein Kampf by the way, I rejected fascism and Nazism based on the atrocious things they actually believe, not some weird strawman.


I never said you didn't believe in a difference, I said there wasn't a difference. Those are two distinctly different things.

That's good, weird straw men are bad, and weird.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 67469
Founded: May 07, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kannap » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:54 pm

Telconi wrote:
Cordel One wrote:They said themselves the they didn't know the difference, I linked something that would explain it but they ignored it on the basis of distrust. That is absolutely ignorance.


It's not, perhaps you should spend less time consuming communist fables and more time consuming english textbooks?


I only skimmed the article in question, but it seems like they're distinguishing the difference between real property and personal property, referring to the former as private property - which real property can be, but it can also be public - and the latter as possessions, which I would consider a reasonable synonym. Though, again, I only skimmed the article so I can't be sure - nor can I tell you whether they distinguish them well or not.

But, there is a different between private and personal property, whether the article in question gets the difference right or not.
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Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45100
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:55 pm

Kannap wrote:
Telconi wrote:
It's not, perhaps you should spend less time consuming communist fables and more time consuming english textbooks?


I only skimmed the article in question, but it seems like they're distinguishing the difference between real property and personal property, referring to the former as private property - which real property can be, but it can also be public - and the latter as possessions, which I would consider a reasonable synonym. Though, again, I only skimmed the article so I can't be sure - nor can I tell you whether they distinguish them well or not.

But, there is a different between private and personal property, whether the article in question gets the difference right or not.

The real question is what relevance any of this has to the 2020 presidential election.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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