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2020 US General Election Thread VII: Summer of Discontent

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Of All The Parties With 50+ Electoral Votes of Ballot Access, Which Party Do You Prefer?

Republicans
73
23%
Democrats
111
35%
Libertarians
24
8%
Greens
59
19%
Constitution Party
12
4%
Alliance Party
4
1%
Socialism and Liberation
31
10%
 
Total votes : 314

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Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10215
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:58 am

Ngelmish wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
That's not strictly true, as most respondents agreed that Clinton performed better than the Donald in the US televised debates (IIRC). Donald Trump isn't exactly a... gifted debater, if you recall and while Joe Biden is certainly less than eloquent most of the time, he's more than capable of holding his own on the stage with Trump. I'd wager most politicians are, actually. Especially now that he's a known quantity now.

Nevertheless the importance of the debates in the online age, I feel, is waning. Most people will settle for clips that can be tailored to suit a narrative, so it's about those viral quotes instead of actual engagement. I don't think either candidate will receive a significant move in the polls regardless of outcome.

That's unless nothing disastrous happening like Trump and/or Biden collapsing on stage, foaming at the mouth, and/or rambling incoherently about curtains.


The significance of debates has very rarely been about the actual content from a policy perspective ('76 and especially '60 are outliers in that regard), but the chance for both contenders to project their personalities simultaneously. There's an old truism about Americans gravitating to the more charismatic candidate, but that's not exactly true. What happens is that there's a tendency to vote for whoever is most entertaining to watch on screen. A good example of this is Bush the Elder. Standing next to Mike Dukakis, his self-effacing awkwardness and self deprecatory humor came across as a little funny and rather charming. Next to Bill Clinton, he just seemed passed it and out of touch.

Trump was fundamentally funny to a broad portion of the electorate in ways that may not have had anything to do with policy in 2016 -- but, combine his record with the fact that most people also find Joe Biden to be funny and Trump doesn't have the right foil for this election. That's what the significance of the debates will be. Always assuming, as you say, that there's no mouth foaming on camera.


Reagan was famous for being able to land a joke in one line, too. But you put your finger on something when you say people find Trump funny. I knew he was doing it deliberately but I thought it was just meant to make liberals angry, and that was funny at another level. I wonder how many Democrats voted for him because "oh this will be good"? Likely they stopped being interested much, and unable to support either side now just lost interest in politics.

For that matter, how many basically apolitical people voted for the first time because Trump was the first candidate they had ever found interesting ..?
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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 52847
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:02 am

Slavakino wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
That's not strictly true, as most respondents agreed that Clinton performed better than the Donald in the US televised debates (IIRC). Donald Trump isn't exactly a... gifted debater, if you recall and while Joe Biden is certainly less than eloquent most of the time, he's more than capable of holding his own on the stage with Trump. I'd wager most politicians are, actually. Especially now that he's a known quantity now.

Nevertheless the importance of the debates in the online age, I feel, is waning. Most people will settle for clips that can be tailored to suit a narrative, so it's about those viral quotes instead of actual engagement. I don't think either candidate will receive a significant move in the polls regardless of outcome.

That's unless nothing disastrous happening like Trump and/or Biden collapsing on stage, foaming at the mouth, and/or rambling incoherently about curtains.

2016 Trump was the best, his policies seemed great for the USA. Currently as president he isn't "incompetent" in a way but good lord is he idle. Trump needs to pump out his policies and promises. I heavily dislike Bidens policies, especially "hate speech" and firearm laws. I guarantee this election would be a win by 51-60%, I don't see a landslide happening any time soon


So you complain about the lack of a proper leftist party... while plugging the more unambiguously right-wing candidate as the better one. Huh.

Also Trump couldn't even get 50% in 2016, and is arguably less popular now than he was then. So not sure how you see him getting a result like that.
Last edited by Vassenor on Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Andromeda Island Group
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 355
Founded: Oct 28, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Andromeda Island Group » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:36 am

Valrifell wrote:
-Astoria wrote:Sadly, the real election appears to rest with the electoral college.


I don't think it's possible to win the popular vote by 14 points and still lose the EC.


If Biden wins by that much in the popular vote & fails to get 300 electoral votes, something is definitely amiss with the Electoral College.
The Electoral College definitely has its faults, but aside from the election of 1824, nobody who wins the popular vote by that big a percentage has ever lost the Presidency.
Last edited by The Andromeda Island Group on Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14733
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:46 am

Failure

Goddamn.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
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No State Here
Diplomat
 
Posts: 737
Founded: Jun 10, 2019
Anarchy

Postby No State Here » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:51 am

San Lumen wrote:
No State Here wrote:More based


Hope you enjoy Trump replacing RBG and all progressive legislation is struck down for the next 50 years.

I’m not progressive, why would I want progressive legsislation?
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Nohle
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Jun 21, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nohle » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:53 am

Yes, the recent unrest has led me to reconsider who I'll be voting for.

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Zurkerx
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 7962
Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Zurkerx » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:57 am

No State Here wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Hope you enjoy Trump replacing RBG and all progressive legislation is struck down for the next 50 years.

I’m not progressive, why would I want progressive legsislation?


So, this is the third time you have posted this. Is there a reason why??

Nohle wrote:Yes, the recent unrest has led me to reconsider who I'll be voting for.


And who are you considering now? And who were you originally going to vote for?
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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 52847
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:05 am

No State Here wrote:More based


And what about the rest of the platform? Sell us on that.

I'm also curious how "overturn all past marijuana convictions and don't intervene if states legalise" is a pro-War On Drugs position.
Last edited by Vassenor on Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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No State Here
Diplomat
 
Posts: 737
Founded: Jun 10, 2019
Anarchy

Postby No State Here » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:31 am

Vassenor wrote:
No State Here wrote:More based


And what about the rest of the platform? Sell us on that.

Abolishing the ATF

IRS reform

Tax cuts

Freedom to do anything you want no matter what as long as it does not directly harm other’s individual liberties, which includes being able to legally own a F-35A lightning 2, and legally purchase an arsenal of weapons larger than a small countries’

Image
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Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14733
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:40 am

No State Here wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And what about the rest of the platform? Sell us on that.

Abolishing the ATF

IRS reform

Tax cuts

Freedom to do anything you want no matter what as long as it does not directly harm other’s individual liberties, which includes being able to legally own a F-35A lightning 2, and legally purchase an arsenal of weapons larger than a small countries’

Image

Oh, you assume anyone can buy a functional F-35 on eBay? "How to be a warlord on less than $200 a day."
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 52847
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:41 am

No State Here wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And what about the rest of the platform? Sell us on that.

Abolishing the ATF

IRS reform

Tax cuts

Freedom to do anything you want no matter what as long as it does not directly harm other’s individual liberties, which includes being able to legally own a F-35A lightning 2, and legally purchase an arsenal of weapons larger than a small countries’

Image


And the rest. Not just the memes. Explain what's good about all of her policy positions.

And answer my other question too.
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 141407
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:41 am

No State Here wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And what about the rest of the platform? Sell us on that.

Abolishing the ATF

IRS reform

Tax cuts

Freedom to do anything you want no matter what as long as it does not directly harm other’s individual liberties, which includes being able to legally own a F-35A lightning 2, and legally purchase an arsenal of weapons larger than a small countries’

Image

Freedom on paper that could never be exercised in practice. She may as well be campaigning on the right to land on the Sun.
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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 52847
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:43 am

Ifreann wrote:
No State Here wrote:Abolishing the ATF

IRS reform

Tax cuts

Freedom to do anything you want no matter what as long as it does not directly harm other’s individual liberties, which includes being able to legally own a F-35A lightning 2, and legally purchase an arsenal of weapons larger than a small countries’

Image

Freedom on paper that could never be exercised in practice. She may as well be campaigning on the right to land on the Sun.


But it makes people feel gooey and warm inside so we're not allowed to question it.
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Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27231
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:45 am

Ifreann wrote:
No State Here wrote:Abolishing the ATF

IRS reform

Tax cuts

Freedom to do anything you want no matter what as long as it does not directly harm other’s individual liberties, which includes being able to legally own a F-35A lightning 2, and legally purchase an arsenal of weapons larger than a small countries’

Image

Freedom on paper that could never be exercised in practice. She may as well be campaigning on the right to land on the Sun.


I, as a wealthy man with a newly-purchased small mercenary army, will decide not to use it because I have decided to be a good-faith actor and not reinstate feudalism in spite of the fact it would bring me loads of profit and power beyond my wildest dreams, which have been my goals since becoming a businessman.
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Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60888
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:46 am

No State Here wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And what about the rest of the platform? Sell us on that.

Abolishing the ATF

IRS reform

Tax cuts

Freedom to do anything you want no matter what as long as it does not directly harm other’s individual liberties, which includes being able to legally own a F-35A lightning 2, and legally purchase an arsenal of weapons larger than a small countries’

Image

“Please don’t oppress anyone”

Lol that has to be the weakest thing I’ve ever heard
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Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14733
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:46 am

Valrifell wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Freedom on paper that could never be exercised in practice. She may as well be campaigning on the right to land on the Sun.


I, as a wealthy man with a newly-purchased small mercenary army, will decide not to use it because I have decided to be a good-faith actor and not reinstate feudalism in spite of the fact it would bring me loads of profit and power beyond my wildest dreams, which have been my goals since becoming a businessman.

I vow not to use a missile on the asshole who cut me off in traffic.
Last edited by Gormwood on Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

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Gormwood
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Posts: 14733
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:47 am

Thermodolia wrote:
No State Here wrote:Abolishing the ATF

IRS reform

Tax cuts

Freedom to do anything you want no matter what as long as it does not directly harm other’s individual liberties, which includes being able to legally own a F-35A lightning 2, and legally purchase an arsenal of weapons larger than a small countries’

Image

“Please don’t oppress anyone”

Lol that has to be the weakest thing I’ve ever heard

Even Susan Collins would yell "BULLSHIT!"
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

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Aureumterra
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8521
Founded: Oct 25, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Aureumterra » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:49 am

Thermodolia wrote:
No State Here wrote:Abolishing the ATF

IRS reform

Tax cuts

Freedom to do anything you want no matter what as long as it does not directly harm other’s individual liberties, which includes being able to legally own a F-35A lightning 2, and legally purchase an arsenal of weapons larger than a small countries’

Image

“Please don’t oppress anyone”

Lol that has to be the weakest thing I’ve ever heard

I’m sure you would hate that
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Juristonia
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Juristonia » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:51 am

Aureumterra wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:“Please don’t oppress anyone”

Lol that has to be the weakest thing I’ve ever heard

I’m sure you would hate that

I'm sure anyone with two functioning brain cells to spare would.
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Aureumterra
Powerbroker
 
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Founded: Oct 25, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Aureumterra » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:54 am

Juristonia wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:I’m sure you would hate that

I'm sure anyone with two functioning brain cells to spare would.

"Don’t oppress anyone"

Don’t insult the intelligence of people with two functioning brain cells
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Nobel Hobos 2
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10215
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:58 am

No State Here wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And what about the rest of the platform? Sell us on that.

Abolishing the ATF

IRS reform

Tax cuts

Freedom to do anything you want no matter what as long as it does not directly harm other’s individual liberties, which includes being able to legally own a F-35A lightning 2, and legally purchase an arsenal of weapons larger than a small countries’

Image


It's how she says "please" after that which really gets me.

Libertarians get elected. Control of Congress and President.
Every gun nut plus a few new ones, upgrade all they can afford.
BLM is suddenly rich, some say Russia, some say China. They tool up.
So far, only Elon Musk has bought the F-35. One. What's the point of owning more planes than you can fly?
Then corporations start buying, and they keep buying. They buy everything but ships, those take too long to build.
The President gets an offer, and takes it. A consortium of some corporations (who knows) now has a Navy.

The Libertarians are by now corrupted by lack of power. Old ideals are telling them, this is perfect. No more government.
But they are the government. Citizens rising up and slaughtering the government doesn't seem so peachy now.

There's a bit of trouble on the West Coast. Apart from the odd missile, it's still quiet in Washington.
Oh no. It's time for what every Libertarian dreads. The President has to give the Law and Order Speech.

He goes on GoldTube. "Hey everyone, listen up. I have three words for you: Non-Aggression Principle. Please."

It's not possible, but people seems to be chanting outside. How did they get past the non-lethal med turrets?
Nope, that's definitely chanting. They sound pretty angry too. Poor President, what did he ever do wrong?

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Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14733
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:13 am

Aureumterra wrote:
Juristonia wrote:I'm sure anyone with two functioning brain cells to spare would.

"Don’t oppress anyone"

Don’t insult the intelligence of people with two functioning brain cells

It's either naiveté or disingenuousness and I don't know which burns hotter.
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Luna Amore
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 12273
Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:36 am

Tombradyonia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Yes, we get it. You hate that people are able to criticise Trump here without being shouted down.


I suspect GMS to be an elaborate trolling account.

*** Warned for troll naming ***

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The Huskar Social Union
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45016
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:39 am

No bad please, no be bad.
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Jerzylvania
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Jerzylvania » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:43 am

Gormwood wrote:Failure

Goddamn.


The spot was effective, and so were the spots.
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