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2020 US General Election Thread VII: Summer of Discontent

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Of All The Parties With 50+ Electoral Votes of Ballot Access, Which Party Do You Prefer?

Republicans
73
23%
Democrats
111
35%
Libertarians
24
8%
Greens
59
19%
Constitution Party
12
4%
Alliance Party
4
1%
Socialism and Liberation
31
10%
 
Total votes : 314

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Myrensis
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Postby Myrensis » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:54 am

Shofercia wrote:
Cisairse wrote:How does this impact-font image macro reduce the reliability of Bolton as a witness?


Should someone who left Trump primarily because Trump doesn't hurt enough brown people be rewarded for his actions? I don't think so.


Gormwood wrote:
Not to mention trying to imply people are suddenly Bolton groupies because he's dishing dirt on Trump.


Oh, is that all Bolton is? So then you won't mind saying "NO" to future war with Iran loud and proud, would you Gormwood? After all, if he's just an innocent witness, and not at all doing this for his warmongering ideas that he wants to enact in the future, you'd have no issues saying that War with Iran would be catastrophic, and warmongering's very wrong. So c'mon Gormwood, say it, loud and proud: "warmongering without a purpose is wrong!" After all, it's part of what Obama ran on in 2008, and part of what Trump ran on in 2016. When Bolton can't win at the ballot box, he tries to cast actual winners as mobsters, for which Gormwood and others hail him as a poor, poor, mob prosecution witness.


Cannot think of a name wrote:He's your guy. We're not 'fanboys' of him because you guys started infighting. We're just enjoying the fight.


Bolton was never my guy. And I didn't vote for Trump. But once again, Bolton was never my guy. And if Trump was to give him enough actual power to implement his disastrous anti-Iranian campaign, I'd criticize Trump for that without hesitation. So let me repeat, so it sinks in for ya: Bolton was never my guy. Trump U was never my university.


Tombradyonia wrote:
And what Bolton is saying about DJT is pretty much what everyone else who left the administration is saying, which basically is that DJT is a huge manbaby who thinks he's the expert on everything and doesn't listen to anyone whose name isn't Kim.


So is that what Sean Spicer's saying? Yes, yes, we get it, "Orange Man Bad" but you know what's really, really, really, actually, bad? Iraq War. That's very bad. Killed over one hundred thousand innocent Iraqi civilians, women and children, sent thousands of Americans home with PTSD, stole money that could've gone to education reform, what a rotten, rotten, rotten war. Hmm, I wonder who the architect was? Oh yeah, John Bolton.


This routine is becoming almost comical: someone is fired or resigns from the Administration, they criticize or accuse Trump of something, and Trump and his shills immediately start wailing about how you can't listen to them because they're badwrong corrupt losers! If only there was a very stable genius in the White House who could warn Trump before he keeps hiring them...

Bolton is a particularly hilarious example, because Trump himself said pretty much exactly what you just did about the Iraq War being a costly bloody mistake built on lies, and then he turned to the very much publicly well known chief architect of that war and those lies and went "Yes, this is exactly the man I need as my National Security Advisor!".

Though yes, I'm aware he's recently done some half-assed faffing about how he only hired Bolton because he thought doing so would 'scare'...someone, into doing...something.

The mob thing is a fairly apt comparison though, the fact that mob witnesses are criminal thugs themselves has never stopped anyone from using their testimony against other mob thugs.

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Neutraligon
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Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:09 am

Myrensis wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
Should someone who left Trump primarily because Trump doesn't hurt enough brown people be rewarded for his actions? I don't think so.




Oh, is that all Bolton is? So then you won't mind saying "NO" to future war with Iran loud and proud, would you Gormwood? After all, if he's just an innocent witness, and not at all doing this for his warmongering ideas that he wants to enact in the future, you'd have no issues saying that War with Iran would be catastrophic, and warmongering's very wrong. So c'mon Gormwood, say it, loud and proud: "warmongering without a purpose is wrong!" After all, it's part of what Obama ran on in 2008, and part of what Trump ran on in 2016. When Bolton can't win at the ballot box, he tries to cast actual winners as mobsters, for which Gormwood and others hail him as a poor, poor, mob prosecution witness.




Bolton was never my guy. And I didn't vote for Trump. But once again, Bolton was never my guy. And if Trump was to give him enough actual power to implement his disastrous anti-Iranian campaign, I'd criticize Trump for that without hesitation. So let me repeat, so it sinks in for ya: Bolton was never my guy. Trump U was never my university.




So is that what Sean Spicer's saying? Yes, yes, we get it, "Orange Man Bad" but you know what's really, really, really, actually, bad? Iraq War. That's very bad. Killed over one hundred thousand innocent Iraqi civilians, women and children, sent thousands of Americans home with PTSD, stole money that could've gone to education reform, what a rotten, rotten, rotten war. Hmm, I wonder who the architect was? Oh yeah, John Bolton.


This routine is becoming almost comical: someone is fired or resigns from the Administration, they criticize or accuse Trump of something, and Trump and his shills immediately start wailing about how you can't listen to them because they're badwrong corrupt losers! If only there was a very stable genius in the White House who could warn Trump before he keeps hiring them...

Bolton is a particularly hilarious example, because Trump himself said pretty much exactly what you just did about the Iraq War being a costly bloody mistake built on lies, and then he turned to the very much publicly well known chief architect of that war and those lies and went "Yes, this is exactly the man I need as my National Security Advisor!".

Though yes, I'm aware he's recently done some half-assed faffing about how he only hired Bolton because he thought doing so would 'scare'...someone, into doing...something.

The mob thing is a fairly apt comparison though, the fact that mob witnesses are criminal thugs themselves has never stopped anyone from using their testimony against other mob thugs.

I mean, that's what turning state's evidence is
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No State Here
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Postby No State Here » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:09 am

What are the prospects of disenchanted Trump supporters and anti-Trump conservatives voting Lib and possibly hitting the 10% threshold?
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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:10 am

No State Here wrote:What are the prospects of disenchanted Trump supporters and anti-Trump conservatives voting Lib and possibly hitting the 10% threshold?

0. No such thing as a disenchanted Trump supporter, just people knowing The Donald will do it. Any day now...
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No State Here
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Postby No State Here » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:11 am

Gormwood wrote:
No State Here wrote:What are the prospects of disenchanted Trump supporters and anti-Trump conservatives voting Lib and possibly hitting the 10% threshold?

No such thing as a disenchanted Trump supporter,

That’s odd, because I personally know many
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Khadgar
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Postby Khadgar » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:13 am

No State Here wrote:What are the prospects of disenchanted Trump supporters and anti-Trump conservatives voting Lib and possibly hitting the 10% threshold?


His base is absurdly cultishly loyal. There's nothing he can ever do to disenchant them. Any Republican who never voted for Trump will probably either not vote or write in someone.

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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:15 am

No State Here wrote:
Gormwood wrote:No such thing as a disenchanted Trump supporter,

That’s odd, because I personally know many

Anecdote is not the plural of data.
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Steppe Khanate
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Founded: Apr 16, 2018
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Postby Steppe Khanate » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:16 am

No State Here wrote:What are the prospects of disenchanted Trump supporters and anti-Trump conservatives voting Lib and possibly hitting the 10% threshold?

It would be amazing if the libertarians became a relevant party, but that’s not happening when an incumbent is up for re election. They had a shot in 2016, and possibly another chance in 2024
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No State Here
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Postby No State Here » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:17 am

Gormwood wrote:
No State Here wrote:That’s odd, because I personally know many

Anecdote is not the plural of data.

Is there any data saying everyone who voted for Trump in 2016 will vote for him again?
Khadgar wrote:
No State Here wrote:What are the prospects of disenchanted Trump supporters and anti-Trump conservatives voting Lib and possibly hitting the 10% threshold?


His base is absurdly cultishly loyal. There's nothing he can ever do to disenchant them. Any Republican who never voted for Trump will probably either not vote or write in someone.

Source? Polls, statistics, surveys, anything?
Last edited by No State Here on Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jerzylvania
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Founded: Aug 10, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jerzylvania » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:28 am

Gormwood wrote:
Cisairse wrote:You've heard of Uncle Tom, now get ready for Aunt Candace.

That's pretty much all you need to know about her actually.

She's going to be the new pancake syrup spokesmodel?


Nope. The Cream of Wheat box icon has been relieved of his duties. They're hiring her. The C of W peeps think their problem is a gender issue. 8)
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Northern Davincia
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Postby Northern Davincia » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:33 am

Gormwood wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:It's a shame that tokenism has to be done so blatantly.

Unless they're Republicans like Candace Owens who advertises tokenism openly.

>Candace Owens
Cringe. I am a fan of Antonia Okafor, though.
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Crockerland
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Postby Crockerland » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:34 am

No State Here wrote:What are the prospects of disenchanted Trump supporters and anti-Trump conservatives voting Lib and possibly hitting the 10% threshold?

The number of Trump voters who will defect to Biden will be infinitesimal.
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No State Here
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Postby No State Here » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:35 am

Crockerland wrote:
No State Here wrote:What are the prospects of disenchanted Trump supporters and anti-Trump conservatives voting Lib and possibly hitting the 10% threshold?

The number of Trump voters who will defect to Biden will be infinitesimal.

Is anyone talking about Trump voters defecting to Biden?
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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:36 am

Crockerland wrote:
No State Here wrote:What are the prospects of disenchanted Trump supporters and anti-Trump conservatives voting Lib and possibly hitting the 10% threshold?

The number of Trump voters who will defect to Biden will be infinitesimal.


I wouldn't say that. If the Midwestern polls are anything to go by, Biden will grab a decent number of them.
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Northern Davincia
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Postby Northern Davincia » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:38 am

San Lumen wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:It's a shame that tokenism has to be done so blatantly.

How is it tokenism?

Choosing a woman of color specifically because others believe you're an out-of-touch old white dude is tokenism. I could forgive Biden if he never stated the gender and racial qualifications of his VP, but chose a woman of color anyway. It would give the illusion that he picked someone based on real merit.
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The Galactic RepubIlic
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Founded: Apr 24, 2020
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Postby The Galactic RepubIlic » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:41 am

Dresderstan wrote:Am I the only person thinking we could see a 50-50 split Senate?


Congressional Deadlock-

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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:43 am

The Galactic RepubIlic wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:Am I the only person thinking we could see a 50-50 split Senate?


Congressional Deadlock-

Which boils down to who controls the White House.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:49 am

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:
South Odreria 2 wrote:Whatever happens I am going to laugh at people as the results come in.

Ey same

We either get a leftist meltdown part 2, or a Trumpster meltdown, both are equally entertaining


It's not nice to mock people under emotional duress.
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Myrensis
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Postby Myrensis » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:50 am

Crockerland wrote:
No State Here wrote:What are the prospects of disenchanted Trump supporters and anti-Trump conservatives voting Lib and possibly hitting the 10% threshold?

The number of Trump voters who will defect to Biden will be infinitesimal.


Considering that Trump was elected by less than 80,000 votes total in a handful of states, infinitesimal is all we need. Particularly since Biden has been outperforming Clinton with white and older voters.
Last edited by Myrensis on Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jerzylvania
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Postby Jerzylvania » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:58 am

Crockerland wrote:
No State Here wrote:What are the prospects of disenchanted Trump supporters and anti-Trump conservatives voting Lib and possibly hitting the 10% threshold?

The number of Trump voters who will defect to Biden will be infinitesimal.


And vice versa. The cake is baked. This electorate is safely locked in. The polls you see now aren't going to move much. This president is cooked.
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Jerzylvania
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Postby Jerzylvania » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:04 am

Northern Davincia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:How is it tokenism?

Choosing a woman of color specifically because others believe you're an out-of-touch old white dude is tokenism. I could forgive Biden if he never stated the gender and racial qualifications of his VP, but chose a woman of color anyway. It would give the illusion that he picked someone based on real merit.


Who Biden picks as VP is a summer sideshow. No matter who he picks, it isn't going to hurt him. He's got the snowball rolling down hill and a Jim Comey/HRC scenario isn't happening to save Trump like in 2016. The main thing to worry about is how the pandemic's status in early November effects turnout on election.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:05 am

Jerzylvania wrote:
Crockerland wrote:The number of Trump voters who will defect to Biden will be infinitesimal.


And vice versa. The cake is baked. This electorate is safely locked in. The polls you see now aren't going to move much. This president is cooked.


I don't think that's true since they've fluctuated since people started probing.

Independents can be moved or voters dissuaded from voting. It's not over yet.
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Zurkerx
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Postby Zurkerx » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:11 am

My biggest risk: Trump says mail-in voting could cost him reelection.

He says it depends on the success of multiple lawsuits being waged right now (which he'll lost more than win). He also cites fraud (which is lacking in evidence) and how it would benefit Democrats overall (which isn't always the case: Republicans won a Senate Seat in Colorado back in 2014; more Republicans in NC voted by mail in 2016). I think the latter is what he's more worried about given higher turnout generally benefits Democrats.

That said, it seems Trump's rhetoric is driving Republicans away from voting by mail: far fewer Republicans are requesting mail-in ballots to Democrats.
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Jerzylvania
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Postby Jerzylvania » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:14 am

Valrifell wrote:
Jerzylvania wrote:
And vice versa. The cake is baked. This electorate is safely locked in. The polls you see now aren't going to move much. This president is cooked.


I don't think that's true since they've fluctuated since people started probing.

Independents can be moved or voters dissuaded from voting. It's not over yet.


There will some small movements, but not enough to flip this thing. My observations tell me Biden's momentum is reaching a critical mass now. He's on the verge of blowing Trump out of the water. Of course a lot of this was accomplished by Trump's self sabotage. I don't see Donny changing his stripes now. His campaign looks fatally damaged.
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Valrifell
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Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:15 am

Zurkerx wrote:My biggest risk: Trump says mail-in voting could cost him reelection.

He says it depends on the success of multiple lawsuits being waged right now (which he'll lost more than win). He also cites fraud (which is lacking in evidence) and how it would benefit Democrats overall (which isn't always the case: Republicans won a Senate Seat in Colorado back in 2014; more Republicans in NC voted by mail in 2016). I think the latter is what he's more worried about given higher turnout generally benefits Democrats.

That said, it seems Trump's rhetoric is driving Republicans away from voting by mail: far fewer Republicans are requesting mail-in ballots to Democrats.


Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
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