NationStates

The video was linked here was posted by the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation), Australia's public broadcasting service, which is Australia's equivalent of the USA's PBS:


So the USA's protests against police brutality and racism in the police have gone global. Australia is no exception to these protests. However, since the Australia had its own recent incident of what some label as police brutality, and some have labeled as a response to a threat, these have either exacerbated Australia's protests, or were the cause of them (I'm genuinely not sure as to which)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfZFVel7Lrk&t=6s

As you can see from the video, this appeared to be a realtively peaceful interaction between police and a group of Aboriginal persons, until one of the men in question yells "I'll smash you across the face bro!" to a police officer. The police officer then handcuffed the man and kneed him to the ground. This either caused or exacerbated protests against police brutality in Australia and in the USA.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-05/ ... s/12324186
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ed-illegal
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... aincontent
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-amer ... 54zqo.html

However, protesting against police brutality, whilst a noble endeavour, hasn't changed the fact that there is a global pandemic happening. As such, various state governments tried to stop the protests. New South Wales (NSW) premier, Gladys Berejiklian, the governor of the state where the incident happened. (To my international readers, in Australia, policing falls under the jurisdiction of the state, and local governments do not have the authority to issue police forces) (I'll call her "Gladys" from now on, for the sole reason that "Berejiklian" is difficult to spell). Gladys was originally tolerant of the protestors, stating that she would not be the one to take away their democratic right to protest, however, NSW police commissioner Mick Fuller, was less tolerant of the protests because of Covid. The protests were eventually taken to the high court and deemed illegal for the sole reason that Covid is still a thing, as such, many of the groups who were originally intending to attend have withdrawn. However, many other people have stated that they do not care, and will attend the protests anyway. If crowds exceed the 500 person limit, then there will be fines. Victorian premier Daniel Andrews, was less tolerant of the protestors (solely because of Covid), stating, from the beginning that protestors will be fined $1600 each. The Redfern department of justice, (Redfern being an area of Sydney with a large Aboriginal population, and was close to where the incident had occurred) said that disportional policing against Aboriginals is quite common, not just in NSW, but all over Australia. Police departments in Australia, especially the NSW police, are worried that this recent incident will erode the public's trust in the police force, and are trying to convince the public that this is not the USA, and that these kinds of incidents are rare and that they generally have good relations with the public. Senior offices meet with elders to keep them updated.

So obviously, as this is still an emerging incident, nothing has happened to the cops yet. They may have been stood down, I'm not sure, but, because it's such a new incident, they're still investigating it.

So, what's my take on all this? Firstly, with regards to the incident, the arrest was definitely justified. Considering that the man screamed "I'll smash you across the face, bro", that, in my opinion constitutes a legitimate threat. However, having said that, the cops here acted in a very heavy-handed manner. The use of force, whilst justified, was definitely excessive. The police had troubles restraining the man, as such, there was no need to knee him to the ground, especially in such a heavy-handed manner. As for the legality of protests. This is a harder one. I support the public's right to protest. This is especially the case as they are protesting in Australia, where the incident happened, and (unlike the UK), their actually in the jurisdiction where the (for lack of a better word) supposed brutality occurs.

However, having said that, people all across the state of NSW are having to sacrifice attending funerals, due to the 50 person cap on outdoor funerals, people have to limit their weddings to 20 persons, they have to limit their profits due to how many persons are permitted inside their shops and restaurants. This, by extension, limits the number of people who they can employ. People who work at events venues are no longer employed because of Covid restrictions. So whilst people are unemployed, and/or not being permitted to attend the weddings/funerals of loved ones, we have people protesting on the streets, risking spread the virus. Many of these persons are the same persons who were shunning anti-lockdown protests.

This isn't a matter of whether I agree with their cause, this is a matter of whether or not I agree with their cause is irrelevant, this is a matter of whether or not they should be allowed to protest during a pandemic. If anti-lockdown protestors were prosecuted, then so should these protestors. We can't have one set of rule for one group, then a set of rules for a different group. As for whether or not they should be allowed to protest at all, anything... ...well, that's where it becomes difficult, and I genuinely don't know how to answer that

As for whether or not I agree with the cause (ignoring Covid), well, yea, I guess, if police brutality is as big a problem in Australia as people claim it is. If there's a few isolated incidents here and there, as long as police are held accountable, there's no reason to protest. However, if it is as big of an issue as everyone claims it is, then yes, as long as there's no accountability, then yes, protests are justified, but I don't know about it to make a call either way. As for those protesting against police brutality in the USA, I don't know what you expect the NSW government about it, instead of protesting in Macquarie Street (where the NSW's capitol is located), go and protest at the USA's consulate.

What's your take in all this, NSG?

He uttered a threat the officer moved to arrest him, he resisted the officer took him down. Clean efficient and to the point.

Greed and Death wrote:He uttered a threat the officer moved to arrest him, he resisted the officer took him down. Clean efficient and to the point.

I’m not sure what video you we’re watching, but there was absolutely no resistance in the one posted.

Greed and Death wrote:He uttered a threat the officer moved to arrest him, he resisted the officer took him down. Clean efficient and to the point.

You don't think it was too excessive?

Why is Black Lives Matter in Australia?

Magnus Germania wrote:Why is Black Lives Matter in Australia?

Same reason why it's the UK, to which I answer- your guess is as good as mine

Honestly, mate, so long as both the police and the protesters are held accountable for any crimes committed, I don't give a damn. If people are willing to get COVID by not being cautious, it doesn't concern me. If protesters are willing to commit crimes (lighting police cars on fire, attacking officers, etc.) they should be willing to face legal consequences. If officers are willing to commit crimes, (manslaughter, murder, misconduct, etc.) they should be willing to face legal consequences.

Play stupid games, get stupid prizes. That's how it works. It doesn't matter if you're a protester, officer, bystander, or those people posting squares on social media. It doesn't matter if you're in the USA, Australia, or anywhere else.

Australian rePublic wrote:
However, protesting against police brutality, whilst a nobel endeavour, ...

No, unless it had something to do with Alfred Nobel or the Nobel Prizes, it would be a noble endeavour.

Unless I've become a meme

This wouldn't even be an issue if the protester didn't threaten to smash the cop across the face...

The Two Jerseys wrote:This wouldn't even be an issue if the protester didn't threaten to smash the cop across the face...

I'm not sure if it was a protestor. I'm not sure why the police were interacting with him, tbh. But yea, I agree. They probably still would have protested against the USA, though

Country of CityTowne wrote:Honestly, mate, so long as both the police and the protesters are held accountable for any crimes committed, I don't give a damn. If people are willing to get COVID by not being cautious, it doesn't concern me. If protesters are willing to commit crimes (lighting police cars on fire, attacking officers, etc.) they should be willing to face legal consequences. If officers are willing to commit crimes, (manslaughter, murder, misconduct, etc.) they should be willing to face legal consequences.

Play stupid games, get stupid prizes. That's how it works. It doesn't matter if you're a protester, officer, bystander, or those people posting squares on social media. It doesn't matter if you're in the USA, Australia, or anywhere else.

Would you say the same to anti-lockdown protestors?

Magnus Germania wrote:Why is Black Lives Matter in Australia?

The first example in the OP was of a young Aboriginal man.
Aboriginals look black, though they don't have their origins in Africa.

The Aborigines are directly equivalent to Native Americans, they're the people who lived all over our continent before the whites arrived from Britain. I think white Australians pay more attention to them though, probably because we never had significant slavery (a sin which somewhat obscures the original sin of taking their land off the Native Americans), also we had neither a revolutionary war nor a civil war in our history.

With recent immigration we also have actual blacks from Africa (Sudan and Somalia mostly). As far as I'm aware, the racism against them is no better or worse than racism against any recently arrived immigrants. Not that it's right of course, but it lacks that inter-generational and internalized racism which is so hard to root out. Before long the Sudanese Australians, Afghan Australians etc will be perfectly accepted and our racists will be totally focussed on the Chinese! Oh and Koreans, who they can't tell apart from Chinese.

Australian rePublic wrote:

Country of CityTowne wrote:Honestly, mate, so long as both the police and the protesters are held accountable for any crimes committed, I don't give a damn. If people are willing to get COVID by not being cautious, it doesn't concern me. If protesters are willing to commit crimes (lighting police cars on fire, attacking officers, etc.) they should be willing to face legal consequences. If officers are willing to commit crimes, (manslaughter, murder, misconduct, etc.) they should be willing to face legal consequences.

Play stupid games, get stupid prizes. That's how it works. It doesn't matter if you're a protester, officer, bystander, or those people posting squares on social media. It doesn't matter if you're in the USA, Australia, or anywhere else.

Would you say the same to anti-lockdown protestors?

Anti-lockdown protesters didn't riot. It's unfortunate that the hundreds of thousands of BLM protesters had their good work tarred by rioters and looters.

There have been some really huge protests before, that had no rioters at all. That might be impossible when the issue is as inflammatory as racial violence, but maybe it's not. Protesters need a plan to respond to violence promptly.

Magnus Germania wrote:Why is Black Lives Matter in Australia?

1 Are you aware that Australia has an Indigenous population who are darkskinned and often refer to themselves as “Blackfella” (similar to how Black Americans might use the N word) and that the Australian Aboriginal community have a history of over policing and a number of deaths while in police custody.

the BLM in targeting Police Brutality and its affect on minority peoples is relevant to Australia movement. Although the BLM may have originated in the USA the term Black is not exclusive to the USA.

2 As to the video the Cops actions were excessive, especially as it appears from the initial dialogue that the Police had sworn at the youths previously and his ‘threat’ was a response to being sworn at. It was foolish bravado from an idiot teen but it didnt require the cop to slam him to the ground or knee him in the groin.

1a. ALso there are African and Black American immigrants who are Australian citizens. I did wonder why BLM was a thing in New Zealand until I learnt that the organisers were Citizens of African origin AND also that the protest was against Racism and Police Brutality rather than being Black v White.

and State Governments should not be limiting right to Protest even in the face of COVID - but they should be able to impose 14 day quarantines or participants

Cetacea wrote:

Magnus Germania wrote:Why is Black Lives Matter in Australia?

Are you aware that Australia has an Indigenous population who are darkskinned and often refer to themselves as “Blackfella” (similar to how Black Americans might use the N word) and that the Australian Aboriginal community have a history of opver policing and a number of deaths while in police custody.

the BLM in targeting Police Brutality and its affect on minority peoples is relevant to Australia movement. Although the BLM may have originated in the USA the term Black is not exclusive to the USA.

As to the video the Cops actions were excessive, especially as it appears from the initial dialogue that the Police had sworn at the youths previously and his ‘threat’ was a response to being sworn at. It was foolish bravado from a idiot teen, and didnt require the cop to slam him to mthe ground or knee him in the groin.

so.. more like Indigenous Lives Matter then?

Sapporo Hyperspace Riftgate Laboratory wrote:

Cetacea wrote:
Are you aware that Australia has an Indigenous population who are darkskinned and often refer to themselves as “Blackfella” (similar to how Black Americans might use the N word) and that the Australian Aboriginal community have a history of opver policing and a number of deaths while in police custody.

the BLM in targeting Police Brutality and its affect on minority peoples is relevant to Australia movement. Although the BLM may have originated in the USA the term Black is not exclusive to the USA.

As to the video the Cops actions were excessive, especially as it appears from the initial dialogue that the Police had sworn at the youths previously and his ‘threat’ was a response to being sworn at. It was foolish bravado from a idiot teen, and didnt require the cop to slam him to mthe ground or knee him in the groin.

so.. more like Indigenous Lives Matter then?

Yes but why reinvent the wheel when the brand is already established

Cetacea wrote:

Magnus Germania wrote:Why is Black Lives Matter in Australia?

1 Are you aware that Australia has an Indigenous population who are darkskinned and often refer to themselves as “Blackfella” (similar to how Black Americans might use the N word) and that the Australian Aboriginal community have a history of over policing and a number of deaths while in police custody.

the BLM in targeting Police Brutality and its affect on minority peoples is relevant to Australia movement. Although the BLM may have originated in the USA the term Black is not exclusive to the USA.

2 As to the video the Cops actions were excessive, especially as it appears from the initial dialogue that the Police had sworn at the youths previously and his ‘threat’ was a response to being sworn at. It was foolish bravado from an idiot teen but it didnt require the cop to slam him to the ground or knee him in the groin.

1a. ALso there are African and Black American immigrants who are Australian citizens. I did wonder why BLM was a thing in New Zealand until I learnt that the organisers were Citizens of African origin AND also that the protest was against Racism and Police Brutality rather than being Black v White.

and State Governments should not be limiting right to Protest even in the face of COVID - but they should be able to impose 14 day quarantines or participants

It appears that some woman was swearing at a cop before he started swearing at the group, then he yells "I'm gonna smash your face, bro!' which is when he was attacked and kneed in the groin. The arrest was justified, but the force was excessive.

Australian rePublic wrote: then he yells "I'm gonna smash your face, bro!' which is when he was attacked and kneed in the groin. The arrest was justified, but the force was excessive.

"I'll crack you across the jaw bro" ... it's not much different, but let's get the basic facts right hmm?

I sort of agree the arrest was justified, and the force was excessive considering the lad did not appear to be resisting at all.

If I were that officer though, I'd announce my intention to arrest but I'd wait for backup. The lads aren't physically threatening, but at least one of them issued a verbal threat and there are several of them. The officer's excessive force probably comes from feeling he needs to use violence to assert authority in a situation where he's outnumbered.

And if the lads run away before backup arrives? So it goes. They can probably be found later since they'll boast to anyone who will listen and it will get to an Auntie before long.

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

Australian rePublic wrote: then he yells "I'm gonna smash your face, bro!' which is when he was attacked and kneed in the groin. The arrest was justified, but the force was excessive.

"I'll crack you across the jaw bro" ... it's not much different, but let's get the basic facts right hmm?

Indeed. Everything else remains the same

Greed and Death wrote:He uttered a threat the officer moved to arrest him, he resisted the officer took him down. Clean efficient and to the point.

I agree; this is a pretty good summary of the video.

Deacarsia wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:He uttered a threat the officer moved to arrest him, he resisted the officer took him down. Clean efficient and to the point.

I agree; this is a pretty good summary of the video.

Don't you think it was excessive?

Australian rePublic wrote:

Deacarsia wrote:I agree; this is a pretty good summary of the video.

Don't you think it was excessive?

In this example, not particularly, no.

Deacarsia wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:He uttered a threat the officer moved to arrest him, he resisted the officer took him down. Clean efficient and to the point.

I agree; this is a pretty good summary of the video.

Where was the resisting part? He has his hands behind his back and the cop guides him around to face the plants before kicking his legs out from under him...

Australian rePublic wrote:

Deacarsia wrote:I agree; this is a pretty good summary of the video.

Don't you think it was excessive?

It's probably fine by American standards. They don't seem to expect much beyond "don't kill the guy" when it comes to use of force.

Putting the lad on the ground could have been accomplished with less force (and risk).

Particularly since I now notice, there are at least 3 cops.

Deacarsia wrote:

Australian rePublic wrote:Don't you think it was excessive?

In this example, not particularly, no.

What makes you say that?