US Anti-Police Protests and Riots Thread II

[Slaughter None]

The first assumption is not"true" it is still an assumption and also pls show me the empirical evidence you have to prove the 4th assumption, the fifth assumption is what they are acting on and also what about the rest?

Haha fifth assumption go bye bye

Sure there have been some riots but the assumptions that this is how they have all - or even the majority - acted is quite clearly incorrect.

That article links to another page which says "opinion"

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Ok, let me explain it to you
1st assumption: George Floyd was killed by the police officers.
2nd assumption: They did that for racist reasons
3rd assumption: So the majority/sizeable amount of the police officers are violent and/or racist
4th assumption: This means that the system is broken and there is systemic racism within America
5th assumption: The only way to stop this is through violence and bloodshed.
It's just layers of assumptions.

The first assumption has already been proven true. Floyd was choked to death.
The fourth assumption has been empirically proven and I've already provided a link to a sizeable bibliography showing it multiple times.
The fifth assumption is your own invention, not BLMs. A blatant strawman.

1st assumption is fact

2nd assumption may be held by some BLM, fair enough. It's not sound to infer from racist bias in the police (which is fairly certain), that the incident was motivated by racism. But it's an understandable assumption.

3rd assumption is a fabrication. If 2% of police are illegally brutal and/or illegally racist, that would be too much. "Most" would be a gold-plated good reason to abolish that police force tomorrow.

4th I agree with you is pretty certain.

5th Assumption is equivalent to "there are no peaceful protesters, only rioters" and is outright disproven by the existence of protesters, carrying BLM signs, and not rioting.

[Liriena]

Haha fifth assumption go bye bye

Sure there have been some riots but the assumptions that this is how they have all - or even the majority - acted is quite clearly incorrect.

That article links to another page which says "opinion"

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/knowledge/s ... -50-states

Public opinion. It's a field of study.

[Cannot think of a name]

Bad wording on my part. "Predecessors" would have fit my meaning better.

Nothing new under the sun, is my point. Your smears are the same smears of racists from decades past.

Here is the difference during his time there was "segregation" maybe you don't know how bad actual racism is but my ancestors did and what is happening currently is nothing, they had to face visual discrimination as well as go through colonialist rule.

Ah, the old ‘it’s not racism until there’s lynching’ canard...

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Bad wording on my part. "Predecessors" would have fit my meaning better.

Nothing new under the sun, is my point. Your smears are the same smears of racists from decades past.

Here is the difference during his time there was "segregation" maybe you don't know how bad actual racism is but my ancestors did and what is happening currently is nothing, they had to face visual discrimination as well as go through colonialist rule.

Government enforced racism is clearly worse than the racism that gets past government attempts to prevent it influencing social decisions.

But that one is worse does not mean that the other does not exist. Why don't you start this again, from the point that systemic racism does exist but government shouldn't do anything more about it ... for some reason, including if you like "it's not very serious".

Denying there is any systemic racism, or any disadvantage in being born black, is way too easy a target. Showing any racism at all, which affects black people more than white people, will just wreck you.

[Slaughter None]

First link doesn't work in your big block of text which is in quotes for some reason, I also love how you just ignored what I said above because you lost that argument also does "public opinion" really say anything?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

First link doesn't work in your big block of text which is in quotes for some reason, I also love how you just ignored what I said above because you lost that argument also does "public opinion" really say anything?

Are you replying to me? Or just singing a long sad song about how the facts done you wrong?

[Slaughter None]

Ok, I will break it down for you the first link provided in that block of text didnot work and secondly this theory has been debunked by Ben Shapiro a few years ago in a few minutes:-
https://youtu.be/KkQUej3v3Qs

[Cannot think of a name]

Ok, I will break it down for you the first link provided in that block of text didnot work and secondly this theory has been debunked by Ben Shapiro a few years ago in a few minutes:-
https://youtu.be/KkQUej3v3Qs

Is that the guy that’s only ever encountered dry vagina?

[Enormous Gentiles]

That article links to another page which says "opinion"

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/knowledge/s ... -50-states

Public opinion. It's a field of study.

The data currently displayed represents activity identified between May 28th and June 8th.

Old data is old.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Ok, I will break it down for you the first link provided in that block of text didnot work and secondly this theory has been debunked by Ben Shapiro a few years ago in a few minutes:-
https://youtu.be/KkQUej3v3Qs

You dismissed a source earlier because the word "opinion" appeared on the same page. All you would say is that it was too long for you to read at all ...

Now you have an absolute hide to offer a video that isn't even on the subject of systemic racism, which is what you were claiming does not exist.

I'll watch it I guess, but given that racial discrimination in the justice system is iron fact, established by far better scholars than Ben Shapiro, don't be surprised if I don't have another word to say about it. I feel no obligation to debunk stuff that you just randomly throw at us to try to get out of an argument you were losing like a paper factory on fire.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/knowledge/s ... -50-states

Public opinion. It's a field of study.

The data currently displayed represents activity identified between May 28th and June 8th.

Old data is old.

It's not like they have to poll every month or something. This is pretty recent, so I'd say it's okay.

[Aclion]

Yet despite the months of riots and the violence it's perpetuated against black citizens, black owned businesses and black neighborhoods,we continue to see people refer to the riots as "peaceful protests"

If someone refers to "peaceful protests" then what makes you think they mean riots?

Is there some other word you'd suggest, that would allow them to refer to x without you inferring they mean y?

When they're referring to a groups of people engaging in rioting.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

If someone refers to "peaceful protests" then what makes you think they mean riots?

Is there some other word you'd suggest, that would allow them to refer to x without you inferring they mean y?

When they're referring to a groups of people engaging in rioting.

I don't think I've ever seen that here. So you'll have to give me an example.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

By the way, Glorious Hong Kong, before you continue your baby's first white nationalist rant, I'm leaving you a bit of reading material here.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ido ... obilebasic

The relevant highlights are:

Institutional Racism
This entire section is credited to Rose Wrist, a former guest of the stream. (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3rSgPl8_RLMBHHsjaY7VAA, https://www.instagram.com/left__ty/)

They are near-entirely responsible for the collection of this data. Seriously, I just ripped most of this from their document - with their permission, of course. I’m only broadcasting their incredible work with my much larger audience.


https://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-co ... Matter.pdf
Extensive document on racial biases in our criminal justice system.
Studies seem to indicate about 61-80% of black overrepresentation in prisons can be explained by higher black crime rates, with the unexplained portion largely attributable to racial bias.
Remember - the factors which lead to disproportionate criminality amongst black Americans are also in large part a product of racial bias. Underfunded public programs, redlining, generational poverty, bad schooling, and myriad other factors which influence criminality can also be traced to racial bias.

Investigation of the Ferguson Police Department
Between 2012 and 2014, black people in Ferguson accounted for 85 percent of vehicle stops, 90 percent of citations and 93 percent of arrests, despite comprising 67 percent of the population.
Blacks were more than twice as likely as whites to be searched after traffic stops even after controlling for related variables, though they proved to be 26 percent less likely to be in possession of illegal drugs or weapons.
Between 2011 and 2013, blacks also received 95 percent of jaywalking tickets and 94 percent of tickets for “failure to comply.” The Justice Department also found that the racial discrepancy for speeding tickets increased dramatically when researchers looked at tickets based on only an officer’s word vs. tickets based on objective evidence, such as a radar.
Black people facing similar low-level charges as white people were 68 percent less likely to see those charges dismissed in court. More than 90 percent of the arrest warrants stemming from failure to pay/failure to appear were issued for black people.

Biases in Stops, Searches & Arrests

The Concentrated Racial Impact of Drug Imprisonment and the Characteristics of Punitive Counties
While White & Black Americans admit to using and selling illicit drugs at similar rates, Black Americans are VASTLY more likely to go to prison for a drug offense.
In 2002, Black Americans were incarcerated for drug offenses at TEN TIMES the rate of White Americans.
Today, Blacks are 3.7x as likely to be arrested for a marijuana offense as Whites, despite similar usage.
97% of “large-population counties” have racial biases in their drug offense incarceration.

Militarization fails to enhance police safety or reduce crime but may harm police reputation
Police militarization does not lead to a decrease in crimes committed or officer injuries, may actually increase both.
Police militarization (including the adoption of SWAT teams) decreases public trust in police, which may contribute to increases in crime.
Militarized police are disproportionately deployed in African American communities, even when accounting for crime rates.

https://www.acludc.org/sites/default/fi ... _final.pdf
This ACLU report reviews 5 months’ of data from DC police stops & searches by race and outcome.
The black population of DC is 25% greater than the white population, but black people were 410% more likely to be stopped by the police than white people
This disparity increases to 1465% for stops which led to no warning, ticket or arrest and 3695% for searches which led to no warning, ticket or arrest.
This data indicates the disproportionate stopping and searching of blacks in the DC area extended massively beyond any disproportionate rate of criminality.

The Problem of Infra-marginality in Outcome Tests for Discrimination
Analysis of 4.5 million traffic stops in North Carolina shows blacks and latinos were more likely to be searched than whites (5.4 percent, 4.1 percent and 3.1 percent, respectively).
Despite this, searches of white motorists were the most likely to reveal contraband (32% of whites, 29% of blacks, 19% of latinos).

https://drivingwhileblacknashville.file ... s-army.pdf
Between 2011 and 2015, black drivers in Nashville’s Davidson County were pulled over at a rate of 1,122 stops per 1,000 drivers — so on average, more than once per black driver.
Black drivers were also searched at twice the rate of white drivers, though — as in other jurisdictions — searches of white drivers were more likely to turn up contraband.

A large-scale analysis of racial disparities in police stops across the United States
Enormous study of nearly 100,000,000 traffic stops conducted across America.
Analysis finds the bar for searching black and hispanic drivers’ cars is significantly lower than the bar for white drivers.
Additionally, black drivers are less likely to be pulled over after sunset, when “a ‘veil of darkness’ masks ones’ race”.
Biases by Judges, Juries & Prosecutors

Demographic Differences in Sentencing: An Update to the 2012 Booker Report
Extensive multivariate regression analysis indicates black male offenders receive 19.1% longer federal sentences than similarly-situated white male offenders (white male offenders with similar past offenses, socioeconomic background, etc.)
This disparity seems to stem mostly from black males being 21.2% less likely to receive non-government sponsored downward departures or variances.
Non-government sponsored departures and variances refer to deviations from standard sentencing guidelines due to judicial discretion.
Black males who do receive non government-sponsored departures and variations still serve 16.8% longer sentences than white males on average.
In contrast, when sentencing length follows standard guidelines, that disparity is only 7.9%, and a substantial assistance departure for both groups nullifies that disparity.
IN SUMMARY - much of the sentencing disparity between similarly situated black males and white males comes down to judicial discretion to deviate from standard sentencing guidelines.
BONUS - regression analysis suggests violence in a criminal’s history does NOT explain sentencing disparities between black males and similarly situated white males - the effect of that factor seems to be statistically insignificant.
ADDENDUM - Some have asked me to clarify a sentence at the end of this report, where its authors write it cannot be used to prove discrimination on the part of judges. First, that disclaimer warns against inferring active discrimination as opposed to implicit bias - the disclaimer does not say the report cannot be used to prove implicit bias. Second, researchers are often quick to point out their research cannot prove a point, especially regarding intent. It can only strongly suggest a point - natural limitation of multivariate regression analysis.

Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Sentences
Examination of federal data indicates Black Americans spend about 10% more time in prison when compared to comparable Whites who commit the same crimes.
Additionally, Black arrestees are 75% more likely to be charged with a crime carrying a mandatory minimum sentence.
Prosecutors contribute massively to this undeniable racial bias.???

Report on Jury Selection Study
Between 1990 and 2010, state prosecutors struck about 53% of black people eligible for juries in criminal cases, as opposed to 26% of white people. The study’s authors testified the odds of this taking place in a race-neutral context were around 1 in 10 trillion.
After accounting for factors prosecutors select for which tend to correlate with race, black people were still struck twice as often.
North Carolina’s state legislator had previously passed a law stating death penalty defendants who could demonstrate racial bias in their jury selection could have their sentences changed to life without parole. The legislature later repealed that law.

Different Shades of Bias: Skin Tone, Implicit Racial Bias, and Judgments of Ambiguous Evidence
In this study, two groups of mock jurors were given a collection of race-neutral evidence from an armed robbery, with one group’s alleged perpetrator being shown to be light-skinned and the other dark-skinned.
Jurors were significantly more likely to evaluate ambiguous, race-neutral evidence against the dark-skinned suspect as incriminating and more likely to find the dark-skinned suspect guilty.

https://bja.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xycku ... ummary.pdf
Government aggregate of data on plea and charge bargaining.
“Studies that assess the effects of race find that blacks are less likely to receive a reduced charge compared with whites.”
“Studies have generally found a relationship between race and whether or not a defendant receives a reduced charge.”
“The majority of research on race and sentencing outcomes shows that blacks are less likely than whites to receive reduced pleas.“
In short, collected data strongly indicates a racial bias against blacks with regards to sentencing and plea bargains.

https://www.yalelawjournal.org/article/ ... -of-booker
Black men are twice as likely to have charges which carry mandatory minimum sentences filed against them than similarly-situated white men.
This article recommends against the tightening of judicial discretion, arguing that process has historically led to greater racial sentencing disparities.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/do ... 1&type=pdf
Black defendants with multiple prior convictions are 28% more likely to be charged as “habitual offenders” than similarly-situated white defendants.
“Assessments of dangerousness and culpability are linked to race and ethnicity, even after offense seriousness and prior record are controlled.”

https://sci-hub.tw/https://onlinelibrar ... jels.12077
A study of first-time felons in Georgia found black men received sentences of on average 270 days longer than similarly-situated white males.
However, when black males were differentiated by skin tone, it was found light-skinned black men saw virtually no disparity in their sentencing while dark-skinned black men actually saw a disparity of around 400 days in prison.

https://sci-hub.tw/https://papers.ssrn. ... id=1990324
A study of bail in 5 large counties found blacks received significantly higher bail than whites who had committed similar crimes.
The bail was $7,000 higher for violent crimes, $13,000 higher for drug crimes and $10,000 higher for crimes related to public order.

https://www.urban.org/sites/default/fil ... cation.PDF
The Urban Institute analyzed the histories of four probation offices and found black people were 18-39% more likely than similarly-situated white people to have their probation revoked.
Biases in Death Penalty Sentencing

https://files.deathpenaltyinfo.org/lega ... dy2014.pdf
Analysis of 33 years of data from Washington State to determine which characteristics best predict the decision to implement a death sentence.
Black defendants are 4.5 times as likely to receive a death sentence as similarly-situated whites.
Other factors (presence of aggravating circumstances, involvement of sex crimes, hostage-taking, etc.) explain only a small fraction of the disparity in prosecutors’ and juries’ decision to invoke the death penalty against black defendents.
Race was by far the most influential statistical factor.

https://www.uky.edu/AS/PoliSci/Peffley/ ... worthy.pdf
Analysis of the relationship between racial stereotyping and death sentence convictions.
Black defendants who possessed darker skin and more “stereotypically black” features were twice as likely to be given the death penalty when accused of murdering a white person, as compared to lighter-skinned blacks with less “stereotypically black” features.
This disparity disappears completely when the murder victim is black.

Implicit Bias

DOES APPEARANCE MATTER?: THE EFFECT OF SKIN TONES ON TRUSTWORTHY AND INNOCENT APPEARANCES
Photos of capital inmates shown to entry-level criminal justice students for them to evaluate the trustworthiness of the faces.
Students rated pictures of light-skinned inmates as more trustworthy when they preceded pictures of dark-skinned inmates.
Most study participants (79.9%) were white, but the study predicted that this wasn’t a major factor - “When controlling for race, no statistically significant result was found. This suggests that each race, White and non-White, were consistent in their rating outcomes. Prior research has found similar results, where Whites and light-skinned Blacks are likely to share similar attitudes towards darker-skinned Blacks”

Black Boys Viewed as Older, Less Innocent Than Whites, Research Finds
Students and police officers participated in tests to determine levels of racial bias and perception of innocence.
Black boys as young as 10 are more likely to be considered criminal or untrustworthy, and more likely to face police violence.
Police officers were tested on dehumanization of blacks by comparing people of different races to animal groups. Police who engaged in higher levels of dehumanization were more likely to use violence against black children.

Racial Bias in Judgments of Physical Size and Formidability
Results from three separate studies on perception and racial bias show people have a tendency to perceive black men as larger and more threatening than similarly sized white men.
Participants also believed the black men were more capable of causing harm in a hypothetical altercation and police would be more justified in using force to subdue them, even if the men were unarmed.

Papa bless Vaush for compiling such an extensive research document on institutional racism, it should be essential reading for anyone who doesn’t believe that institutional racism exists.

[Ifreann]

Echoing sentiments I saw expressed on the terrible bird site, it's pretty wild how when there's property being damaged, a child is dispatched to wield lethal force in its defence, to use a gun to protect property, to kill people to stop them from breaking stuff. But when people are being killed by the police, unarmed Black men getting shot left and right, that only justifies quietly and non-disruptively ask the government to please do something.

[Greed and Death]

The first assumption is not"true" it is still an assumption and also pls show me the empirical evidence you have to prove the 4th assumption, the fifth assumption is what they are acting on and also what about the rest?

Haha fifth assumption go bye bye

Sure there have been some riots but the assumptions that this is how they have all - or even the majority - acted is quite clearly incorrect.

Methodology seems off. Notable incidents such as the looting of high end stores in Soho( lower Manhattan) are not covered despite being featured prominently on the news.
They are also listing protests as separate when in reality it is the same protest that has changed locations either because they marched or the police disbursed them and they reformed elsewhere and only looted when there were no police around.

Lastly how are we determining violence ? The source only seems to sue the news, rather than police reports.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Haha fifth assumption go bye bye

Sure there have been some riots but the assumptions that this is how they have all - or even the majority - acted is quite clearly incorrect.

Methodology seems off. Notable incidents such as the looting of high end stores in Soho( lower Manhattan) are not covered despite being featured prominently on the news.

Others have mentioned it is out of date. Could be that.

They are also listing protests as separate when in reality it is the same protest that has changed locations either because they marched or the police disburpersed them and they reformed elsewhere and only looted when there were no police around.

Lastly how are we determining violence ? The source only seems to sue the news, rather than police reports.

Probably more violence makes the news (including social media?) than police reports. If three people throw Molotovs that should be counted as 3 acts of violence (3 perpetrators) but when the owner reports damage to the police (or police come by later) it's only one incident.

[Enormous Gentiles]

Old data is old.

It's not like they have to poll every month or something. This is pretty recent, so I'd say it's okay.

It's a decent enough snapshot of the first 10-ish days of the post-Floyd situation. But we're 90+ days in now. It's not enough of a sample, and it's not current.

And even if I take the results at face value, it still states that 20% of protests aren't peaceful. I don't think this is the trump card smoking gun droid you are looking for.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

It's not like they have to poll every month or something. This is pretty recent, so I'd say it's okay.

It's a decent enough snapshot of the first 10-ish days of the post-Floyd situation. But we're 90+ days in now. It's not enough of a sample, and it's not current.

And even if I take the results at face value, it still states that 20% of protests aren't peaceful. I don't think this is the trump card smoking gun droid you are looking for.

It looks a lot worse for protesters if every protest with some violence is counted as a violent protest. It's a collective responsibility, and like I say if peaceful protesters are going to get blamed for violence that happens at their protest, they really should try to stop the violence.

The number of individuals committing violence is a much smaller fraction of the total {protesters + rioters} but they're sure as hell more visible. And they're probably aware they're fucking up the message: some of them must be doing that on purpose. Also some who don't care either way about BLM: as long as they're getting away with it, intimidating people, smashing and burning stuff, and looting is gratifying for them in some way.

[Cannot think of a name]

Echoing sentiments I saw expressed on the terrible bird site, it's pretty wild how when there's property being damaged, a child is dispatched to wield lethal force in its defence, to use a gun to protect property, to kill people to stop them from breaking stuff. But when people are being killed by the police, unarmed Black men getting shot left and right, that only justifies quietly and non-disruptively ask the government to please do something.

The terrible bird makes a compelling point.

[WAR OF RIGHTS]

Echoing sentiments I saw expressed on the terrible bird site, it's pretty wild how when there's property being damaged, a child is dispatched to wield lethal force in its defence, to use a gun to protect property, to kill people to stop them from breaking stuff. But when people are being killed by the police, unarmed Black men getting shot left and right, that only justifies quietly and non-disruptively ask the government to please do something.

Because that was a person/persons not an institution.

[Greed and Death]

Echoing sentiments I saw expressed on the terrible bird site, it's pretty wild how when there's property being damaged, a child is dispatched to wield lethal force in its defence, to use a gun to protect property, to kill people to stop them from breaking stuff. But when people are being killed by the police, unarmed Black men getting shot left and right, that only justifies quietly and non-disruptively ask the government to please do something.

The child refrained from lethal force until he was protecting his life not property.

[Kubra]

Sure. Sounds like a protest gone a bit too far. But unless there's a crime being committed it's still protest NOT RIOTING.

I see you're insisting that all BLM protest is violent (ie rioting) because some of it is. Do you think that will persuade anyone who isn't already head and shoulders up Trump's ass?

Not all the protests and protestors are violent. But the movement has shown what it stands for, despite what it claims, with actions over the past 3 months. And its ugly.

literally any protest anywhere will involve rioting if it reaches a particular size.

[Fahran]

It's an effective tactic. Makes one almost wish the left was as willing to be so shamelessly immoral and just gaslight its way yo victory like that.

Let's not pretend that the Left don't engage in gaslighting of their own on occasion.