US Anti-Police Protests and Riots Thread II

[The Black Forrest]

The guys daughters disagree with her doing that.

They said their dad was a democrat and didn’t like Trump. He wouldn’t have agreed to have him used in Trumps version of law and order.

He died because of these so called "protesters" if he knew what would have happened to him he probably would have supported "Trump's version of law and order"

What Ifs are fun to discuss. However, he was a cop for a long time. He understood walking out the door could be the last he did and we still have the daughters speaking against the idea of his death being used for political purposes by a President he didn’t like. His widow....she likes trump.

[Shazbotdom]

If Trump's version of "Law and Order" means an ever exploding budget that is not needed, police doing jobs that they shouldn't have to, and a continuation of the endless "war on drugs", then that's not the Law and Order we should strive for.

We are talking about the protests/riots.

You talked about his law and order policies. I was just reciprocating.

[Slaughter None]

He died because of these so called "protesters" if he knew what would have happened to him he probably would have supported "Trump's version of law and order"

What Ifs are fun to discuss. However, he was a cop for a long time. He understood walking out the door could be the last he did and we still have the daughters speaking against the idea of his death being used for political purposes by a President he didn’t like. His widow....she likes trump.

He died that's the problem, politics come later.

[The Black Forrest]

What Ifs are fun to discuss. However, he was a cop for a long time. He understood walking out the door could be the last he did and we still have the daughters speaking against the idea of his death being used for political purposes by a President he didn’t like. His widow....she likes trump.

He died that's the problem, politics come later.

Indeed. It sounded like he was a good dude. Trump is using him for a deflection message and hit a dog whistle or two for the base.....

[Fahran]

This really isn't the thread for this but... all art, media and entertainment is political. There is no apolitical art, media or entertainment.

The gripe is usually when aesthetics becomes secondary to politics or when the message becomes preachy. Bad art, bad writing, and stale entertainment do deserve criticism. That's why I found Avatar to be very uninspired for existence. That and Pocahontas did it better. But, yeah, this deserves it's own thread.

[Northern Davincia]

I dont think you know shit about firearms or their use personally

When gun advocates rely on "anyone who doesn't know masses about guns has no right to an opinion" I hear a vested interest defying the law.

If you were a chemical manufacturer and I was objecting to you dumping waste in the creek, the fact that you know more about chemical waste than I do, would have no bearing whatsoever. And it's not so different. Your right to own guns has externalities.

In a democracy EVERYONE gets a say about law. Not just the people affected by it. Not just the people who know a lot about it.

That is why democracy is prone to decay and should be viewed with apprehension.

[Slaughter None]

He died that's the problem, politics come later.

Indeed. It sounded like he was a good dude. Trump is using him for a deflection message and hit a dog whistle or two for the base.....

Jesus christ, his widow came to RNC on her own to share her story, you are the one using it to further your politics

[Asardia]

The guys daughters disagree with her doing that.

They said their dad was a democrat and didn’t like Trump. He wouldn’t have agreed to have him used in Trumps version of law and order.

He died because of these so called "protesters" if he knew what would have happened to him he probably would have supported "Trump's version of law and order"

What has Trump done to stop the riots?

[Cordel One]

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police across US, report says

A former FBI agent has documented links between serving officers and racist militant activities in more than a dozen states

Next up: Empathetic People Caught Infiltrating Humanitarian Aid Organizations: the Shocking Truth followed at nine by Music Lovers in MY Band?

Before you "All X Are Y" me I'm sure there are people involved in those things who aren't in it for those reasons.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

The guys daughters disagree with her doing that.

They said their dad was a democrat and didn’t like Trump. He wouldn’t have agreed to have him used in Trumps version of law and order.

He died because of these so called "protesters" if he knew what would have happened to him he probably would have supported "Trump's version of law and order"

But if he had, and "Trump's version" had actually been implemented ... then he wouldn't have died.

Then he would have (as his daughters claim) supported the Democrat way instead ... and he would have died.

It's a nearly perfect "what if" self-refutation. It's the time traveller's paradox.

[Fahran]

Before you "All X Are Y" me I'm sure there are people involved in those things who aren't in it for those reasons.

I've already addressed this to some extent. Essentially, the FBI's concerns seem to hinge more on lone "ghost skins" compromising investigations and leaking clandestine details about techniques and assets to white nationalist and white supremacist cells due to the fact that loyalties are often overlapping. While the FBI is aware that infiltrations have been attempted, the fears don't really seem to be that large-scale infiltration has occurred - and neither the 2006 nor the 2017 reports substantiate that allegation.

With regard to "right-wing ties", media outlets often include associations with militias, motorcycle clubs, and gun clubs alongside associations with white nationalist organizations and gangs. This is problematic because a lot of militias, motorcycle clubs, and gun clubs aren't criminal enterprises, aren't racist, and aren't a threat to the public. In some instances, allegations that officers have been involved in illegal activity have been connected to more broad criminal syndicates and most such allegations seem localized - without any discernible impact on the PD's command structures.

German left the FBI in 2004 before the 2006 Report was composed and before it was disclosed. I wouldn't take his remarks as gospel on the current findings and methods of the FBI in light of that fact, and I'd definitely be hesitant about him arguing that the FBI isn't doing enough to combat white nationalists when he represents proof that the FBI has actively infiltrated white nationalist cells and militias in the past. We can't know for certain but it's plausible that those efforts have continued, especially given that we're still arresting those sorts on a semi-regular basis.

At this time, we don't have a lot of hard data on the precise extent of white nationalist infiltration into police departments but I imagine they constitute a minority overall. Probably an extreme minority given that law enforcement offices that aren't compromised have a lot of reasons to kick out open white nationalists.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Indeed. It sounded like he was a good dude. Trump is using him for a deflection message and hit a dog whistle or two for the base.....

Jesus christ, his widow came to RNC on her own to share her story, you are the one using it to further your politics

Republicans did it first. If they didn't have political intent they wouldn't have given her a stage.

Plenty of people died as a result of Republican policies this year. They're not even done dying yet. "He didn't have to die" is very weak ground to make your stand on.

[Aclion]

So, we've seen three months of riots now. During this time we've also seen the use of the mantra "silence is support", meaning that those who don't speak up against violence against black people tacitly support it by their silence.
Yet despite the months of riots and the violence it's perpetuated against black citizens, black owned businesses and black neighborhoods,we continue to see people refer to the riots as "peaceful protests"
Which leads me to ask; if silence is support, what is denial?
I know what Gregory Stanton's view on denial is.

[The Black Forrest]

Indeed. It sounded like he was a good dude. Trump is using him for a deflection message and hit a dog whistle or two for the base.....

Jesus christ, his widow came to RNC on her own to share her story, you are the one using it to further your politics

You mean the RNC used her to further their politics. Blue lives, law and order, the police isn’t the problem it’s those protesters rioters.

I have a thing about honoring the requests of people. For example; John Lewis and the Edmond Pettis Bridge. People want to rename the bridge in his honor. I am against that as they tried before and he said no. To change the name would lesson the historical impact of it.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

So, we've seen three months of riots now. During this time we've also seen the use of the mantra "silence is support", meaning that those who don't speak up against violence against black people tacitly support it by their silence.
Yet despite the months of riots and the violence it's perpetuated against black citizens, black owned businesses and black neighborhoods,we continue to see people refer to the riots as "peaceful protests"
Which leads me to ask; if silence is support, what is denial?
I know what Gregory Stanton's view on denial is.

Denial can be valid. Anyone saying the unrest is ONLY peaceful protest would be in invalid denial of the rioting.
But anyone saying that all protesters are rioters would be taking a step beyond denial: fabrication.

Rioting definitely has a greater effect, per rioter, on public opinion. And it's mostly bad.
But peaceful protesters are far more numerous. In my opinion they should protect their own message by helping to arrest rioters. But some sign that police are actually interested in arresting rioters, rather than going after the protester soft target, would make it possible for protesters to use superior numbers and restrain rioters for police to arrest.

[Aclion]

So, we've seen three months of riots now. During this time we've also seen the use of the mantra "silence is support", meaning that those who don't speak up against violence against black people tacitly support it by their silence.
Yet despite the months of riots and the violence it's perpetuated against black citizens, black owned businesses and black neighborhoods,we continue to see people refer to the riots as "peaceful protests"
Which leads me to ask; if silence is support, what is denial?
I know what Gregory Stanton's view on denial is.

Denial can be valid. Anyone saying the unrest is ONLY peaceful protest would be in invalid denial of the rioting.
But anyone saying that all protesters are rioters would be taking a step beyond denial: fabrication.

Rioting definitely has a greater effect, per rioter, on public opinion. And it's mostly bad.
But peaceful protesters are far more numerous. In my opinion they should protect their own message by helping to arrest rioters. But some sign that police are actually interested in arresting rioters, rather than going after the protester soft target, would make it possible for protesters to use superior numbers and restrain rioters for police to arrest.

That shit goes out the window when you're talking about rioters, either groups or individuals as protesters though.

[Shazbotdom]

Denial can be valid. Anyone saying the unrest is ONLY peaceful protest would be in invalid denial of the rioting.
But anyone saying that all protesters are rioters would be taking a step beyond denial: fabrication.

Rioting definitely has a greater effect, per rioter, on public opinion. And it's mostly bad.
But peaceful protesters are far more numerous. In my opinion they should protect their own message by helping to arrest rioters. But some sign that police are actually interested in arresting rioters, rather than going after the protester soft target, would make it possible for protesters to use superior numbers and restrain rioters for police to arrest.

That shit goes out the window when you're talking about rioters, either groups or individuals as protesters though.

I...

I don't see him calling the RIoters "protesters", though.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Denial can be valid. Anyone saying the unrest is ONLY peaceful protest would be in invalid denial of the rioting.
But anyone saying that all protesters are rioters would be taking a step beyond denial: fabrication.

Rioting definitely has a greater effect, per rioter, on public opinion. And it's mostly bad.
But peaceful protesters are far more numerous. In my opinion they should protect their own message by helping to arrest rioters. But some sign that police are actually interested in arresting rioters, rather than going after the protester soft target, would make it possible for protesters to use superior numbers and restrain rioters for police to arrest.

That shit goes out the window when you're talking about rioters, either groups or individuals as protesters though.

I was also talking about protesters. With any support from the police at all, it would be possible for protesters to do something about the rioters.

But keep your laser focus on rioters and continue to deny that there are any peaceful protesters.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Uh...isn't Susan Rosenberg one of the co-founders...

It's irrelevant. Again, it has to do with the physical messaging and grassroots membership of the organization, which is overwhelmingly nonviolent. The organization's platform is nonviolence.
Those who are violent are funneled down from the structure. If Susan Rosenberg broke off leading a faction of violent protesters, it would be different. But that's not what's happened to my understanding.
The violence is from a small number of people who funneled down from BLM. That could be categorized as terrorism if it was strategic, and in a way, it is. But it's not BLM
If you want to label the violent faction as Antifa, go for it.
But BLM isn't the organization you're looking for in terms of terrorism. It would be the violent factions that have funneled down from it.

No True Scotsman. Terrorists inspired by the message of BLM are still BLM terrorists, the CCP is still a communist regime and Islamist terrorists murdering journalists are still Muslims.

The kid was a hero and btw the kid was NOT a hothead, I mean he literally demonstrates this with his trigger control and seeking to move AWAY from violence.

So in other words, your straight making shit up

He drove to another state with an illegally owned weapon with the intention to shoot people, Nazeroth.

Collective self-defense is still self-defense. If Russia invades Poland, America goes to war. An attack on one is an attack on all.

dude, the 3 guys were white.

This was an antisemitic hate crime.

But that's inconvenient for their narrative. Jews are considered white now.

Im referring to those who hide the past of individuals or put angel wings of violent and dangerous people. Its propaganda.

Oh for the love of god, stop. Nobody is martyring anyone, we just don't think someone should be shot 7 fucking times for being a god-damned hooligan. Jesus Fucking Christ.

I still think the cops went too far. They could've tasered him instead. Chalk it up to piss-poor training. Where the protesters lose me is when they prematurely label the death of every black suspect a racist hate crime, often without evidence, and ironically incite racial hatred and violence in the name of Black Lives.

[Aclion]

That shit goes out the window when you're talking about rioters, either groups or individuals as protesters though.

I...

I don't see him calling the RIoters "protesters", though.

The "you" is rhetorical. Not referring to him. As is obvious by the fact that my comment to which he refer isn't directed at him.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

So, we've seen three months of riots now. During this time we've also seen the use of the mantra "silence is support", meaning that those who don't speak up against violence against black people tacitly support it by their silence.
Yet despite the months of riots and the violence it's perpetuated against black citizens, black owned businesses and black neighborhoods,we continue to see people refer to the riots as "peaceful protests"

Only if you're being deliberately misleading. Mostly protests and riots are referred to separately.

Those who refer to "protests" or "riots" to mean "protests AND riots" could be either (a) opponents of both trying to implicate protesters in riots, or (b) supporters of riots trying to claim the support of protesters.

If you're (a) then don't pretend you're morally better than (b). Both are being dishonest for political reasons.

Which leads me to ask; if silence is support, what is denial?
I know what Gregory Stanton's view on denial is.

Silence is not support. I can agree on that.

[Telconi]

So, we've seen three months of riots now. During this time we've also seen the use of the mantra "silence is support", meaning that those who don't speak up against violence against black people tacitly support it by their silence.
Yet despite the months of riots and the violence it's perpetuated against black citizens, black owned businesses and black neighborhoods,we continue to see people refer to the riots as "peaceful protests"

Only if you're being deliberately misleading. Mostly protests and riots are referred to separately.

Those who refer to "protests" or "riots" to mean "protests AND riots" could be either (a) opponents of both trying to implicate protesters in riots, or (b) supporters of riots trying to claim the support of protesters.

If you're (a) then don't pretend you're morally better than (b). Both are being dishonest for political reasons.

Which leads me to ask; if silence is support, what is denial?
I know what Gregory Stanton's view on denial is.

Silence is not support. I can agree on that.

Basically this, there are both peaceful demonstrators for reform, and rioters who are out to loot and vandalize or whatever.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

How are they imaginary?

question, is the wisconsin-Illinois state line militarized?

if not, he lives mere minutes away from Kenosha considering it is in the greater chicagoland area so what is the matter with him traveling to kenosha?

And I thought the Left was for open borders. Hmm. *thinking emoji*

[Slaughter None]

"Protesters" intimidating people leaving the RNC:-
https://youtu.be/25P4GNi0oWM

[Kowani]

"Protesters" intimidating people leaving the RNC:-
https://youtu.be/25P4GNi0oWM

I'm not sure why you put it in quotation marks, seeing as they didn't commit any acts of violence.