US Anti-Police Protests and Riots Thread II

[SangMar]

But what about the carabinieri?

Who that boy?

Italian sword bois.

Get those guys on your side for the protest! They’re cops though. But they look cool.

[Rojava Free State]

When 24% of police killings are of black people but only 12% of America is black, yes they are over represented in police killings. Idk where you got those stats from but they're horrifically out of touch with reality.

When only 24% of police killings are of black people, but a majority of violent crimes are committed by African Americans, then yes they are underrepresented in police killings.
Controlling for population % creates a skewed results. It implies that the racial breakdown of run ins with the police will correlate with their share of the population. That isn't true. Black people commit more crimes and therefore are more likely to run into the police.

Yeah and they're more likely to be killed while unarmed. Not surprised you would bring up black on black crime though, the common dodging point when we talk about black men being killed by cops.

Thankfully we have a graph of unarmed people killed by police based on race. Looks like police tend to kill unarmed black folks more than white folks: https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed

[The Reformed American Republic]

Happily, you are free to protest against the First Amendment, gatherings etc. So chopchop.

Why would I need to protest? the police are already shooting at people exercising their first amendment "rights". With the way things are going, President Trump will hopefully become Generalissimo Trump and do away with it all together. Protesting and free speech are absolutely unnecessary and are detrimental to political stability, national security and national efficiency.

That's a very dangerous position. Are you alt-right?

[SangMar]

It’s a bad system - I agree, but I imagine there wouldn’t be enough riot cops available if there was any serious disorder - that’s why many departments need to draw on their regular guys and girls.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_Support_Group

Some police departments are big enough to have standalone riot police - like in London, yet they only have 800 officers, and even then, despite the last Wikipedia incident being in 2009 (a death caused by a thug cop), they’ve hardly covered themselves in glory.

Unfortunately, as the Wikipedia states - many officers there are ex soldiers or excitable people who want as much violence as possible. Which is why it’s a bit shit too.

The Special Patrol Group was better they would bring their own riot control gear like cricket bats.

A man of culture.

I also see where the NYPD got ramming innocent people from.

[Confessional Korea]

Fuck. Sorry I'm tired

I meant over represented

You said that correctly before. It was Confessional Korea who changed it to "underrepresented".

Nah, they weren't correct. Controlling for population share as opposed to likelihood to run into the police results in skewed data. I advise you read this article that I linked that defends crime rate benchmarks as opposed to using population % as the benchmark.

[Gravlen]

This does not logically follow.

Nope, it does. If X are more likely to run into the police, then X should have a higher probability of being shot at by the police.
Black people = 13% of population
Black people = 50%~ of violent crimes
Black people = 24% of police killings

This does show that black people are, relative to share of population, disproportionately killed by the police. However, it is because they also disproportionately commit violent crimes. This is the abstract of Cesario et al. (2018) paper "Is There Evidence of Racial Disparity in Police Use of Deadly Force? Analyses of Officer-Involved Fatal Shootings in 2015–2016":

Is there evidence of a Black–White disparity in death by police gunfire in the United States? This is commonly answered by comparing the odds of being fatally shot for Blacks and Whites, with odds benchmarked against each group’s population proportion. However, adjusting for population values has questionable assumptions given the context of deadly force decisions. We benchmark 2 years of fatal shooting data on 16 crime rate estimates. When adjusting for crime, we find no systematic evidence of anti-Black disparities in fatal shootings, fatal shootings of unarmed citizens, or fatal shootings involving misidentification of harmless objects. Multiverse analyses showed only one significant anti-Black disparity of 144 possible tests. Exposure to police given crime rate differences likely accounts for the higher per capita rate of fatal police shootings for Blacks, at least when analyzing all shootings. For unarmed shootings or misidentification shootings, data are too uncertain to be conclusive.

Cesario went onto explain the research in detail following a critique in 2019, which you can find located here: https://psyarxiv.com/p3ejq/

Nothing in here suggests that black people are "underrepresented" in police killings.

Also, you leave out many factors in your analysis, including policies such as stop and frisk as well as increased police presence in black neighborhoods.

[Rojava Free State]

Happily, you are free to protest against the First Amendment, gatherings etc. So chopchop.

Why would I need to protest? the police are already shooting at people exercising their first amendment "rights". With the way things are going, President Trump will hopefully become Generalissimo Trump and do away with it all together. Protesting and free speech are absolutely unnecessary and are detrimental to political stability, national security and national efficiency.

Thats easy to say when you don't live in a dictatorship. If you think tyranny is fun, move from the UK to North Korea.

[Neanderthaland]

Who that boy?

Italian sword bois.

Get those guys on your side for the protest! They’re cops though. But they look cool.

Eh... they'd probably just switch sides.

[SangMar]

Why would I need to protest? the police are already shooting at people exercising their first amendment "rights". With the way things are going, President Trump will hopefully become Generalissimo Trump and do away with it all together. Protesting and free speech are absolutely unnecessary and are detrimental to political stability, national security and national efficiency.

Thats easy to say when you don't live in a dictatorship. If you think tyranny is fun, move from the UK to North Korea.

Fucking RIP. I hope this guy doesn’t want to be a cop.

[San Lumen]

Happily, you are free to protest against the First Amendment, gatherings etc. So chopchop.

Why would I need to protest? the police are already shooting at people exercising their first amendment "rights". With the way things are going, President Trump will hopefully become Generalissimo Trump and do away with it all together. Protesting and free speech are absolutely unnecessary and are detrimental to political stability, national security and national efficiency.

Go move to Uzbekistan, Tajikistan or Turkmenistan and let us know how great dictatorship is. In Uzbekistan you can't move from town to another without government approval

[SangMar]

Italian sword bois.

Get those guys on your side for the protest! They’re cops though. But they look cool.

Eh... they'd probably just switch sides.

Possibly. But maybe Rojava could pick up a cape as a souvenir?

[Zordennox]

The thing is, police are trained to immobilize those under arrest who attempt to resist arrest. George Floyd's medical examiner found fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system. We still don't have all the video evidence to incriminate the cops under suspicion of murder, and all of this leads us to suspect that George Floyd may have acted out and resisted arrest which explains why Derek Chauvin had put his knee on George Floyd's neck.

Literally everything you just said except for the toxicology report is directly contradicted by the video of the incident.

Also, the toxicology report is completely irrelevant.

We only have bits and pieces of video evidence. We have one video recorded from a camera on a sidewalk level view, and you see the police take George Floyd to an adjacent street while the police car follow them. We also have another video recorded from the phone of a bystander on a different sidewalk level view. We don't have video evidence from the time George Floyd was moved to the time Derek Chauvin had begun to put his knee on George Floyd's neck.

[Bienenhalde]

I've said it dozens of times by this point, the protesters should be wareing masks and also do proper distanceing.

And yet a lot of them aren't.

Unfortunately not, but that issue is sort of being overshadowed by the looting, arson, and violent attacks on police. But yeah, when this leads to a second wave of Coronavirus infections it is going to be pretty bad.

[San Lumen]

And yet a lot of them aren't.

Unfortunately not, but that issue is sort of being overshadowed by the looting, arson, and violent attacks on police. But yeah, when this leads to a second wave of Coronavirus infections it is going to be pretty bad.

we dont know that yet and Corona isn't the thread topic

[Bienenhalde]

Funny how all the people opposed to anti-lockdown protests support these ones

The anti-lockdown protests were dumb, but should not have been stopped (which they weren't).

These protests are not dumb, and should not be stopped (which they are being).

Spot the difference.

Both of them should have been stopped because they were breaking the law and endangering police and the general public.

[Confessional Korea]

Why would I need to protest? the police are already shooting at people exercising their first amendment "rights". With the way things are going, President Trump will hopefully become Generalissimo Trump and do away with it all together. Protesting and free speech are absolutely unnecessary and are detrimental to political stability, national security and national efficiency.

That's a very dangerous position. Are you alt-right?

No. The Alt-Right are just white supremacist liberals. I don't know how to describe my politics really. Paternalistic conservatism fits to a degree, but I hold "liberal" or cosmopolitan attitudes towards multiculturalism and I'm generally opposed to nationalism and other enlightenment ideas. Joseph de Maistre, Francisco Franco and Metternich are figures I look to up to.

When only 24% of police killings are of black people, but a majority of violent crimes are committed by African Americans, then yes they are underrepresented in police killings.
Controlling for population % creates a skewed results. It implies that the racial breakdown of run ins with the police will correlate with their share of the population. That isn't true. Black people commit more crimes and therefore are more likely to run into the police.

Yeah and they're more likely to be killed while unarmed. Not surprised you would bring up black on black crime though, the common dodging point when we talk about black men being killed by cops.

Thankfully we have a graph of unarmed people killed by police based on race. Looks like police tend to kill unarmed black folks more than white folks: https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed

Well this is referencing unarmed people killed, not innocent people being killed. So yes, it's relevant for me to bring up crime rates. Black people commit more crimes, therefore the police deal with black people more.

[SangMar]

And yet a lot of them aren't.

Unfortunately not, but that issue is sort of being overshadowed by the looting, arson, and violent attacks on police. But yeah, when this leads to a second wave of Coronavirus infections it is going to be pretty bad.

In a majority of cases, the police attacked first.

[Cisairse]

Cute attempt. A bit tone-deaf, though.



My best friend worked as an under-the-table server in a restaurant which was ordered closed by the government. She also lived paycheck to paycheck, with no other forms of income (she lives alone and has no living family that would support her if she needed money — in fact, if the next had not occurred, it probably would have been me helping her pay rent and car insurance.).

Less than two weeks after her job was shut down, the gov't gave her an unemployement debit card with enough money to get through the week. A week later, she received a payment of $600, and thereafter received $600 per week. All it took was a handful of phone calls and 1 in-person meeting.

Do you think $600 a week is enough for everyone? I live in the UK where our social services have been gutted by a decade of austerity programs. Based on what my family members who have had to apply for government support have received, my mother and I concluded without a doubt that we would've to cancel all of our unnecessary subscriptions ie phone contracts and cut back to a meticulously planned grocery list to make by. Nobody should be forced into that position.

$600 per week is around double the poverty line.

And if you want to play the "nobody should be forced into hardship due to factors beyond their control" card, well, I 100% agree. Welcome to the club of socialism. We need more members anyway.

[Confessional Korea]

Why would I need to protest? the police are already shooting at people exercising their first amendment "rights". With the way things are going, President Trump will hopefully become Generalissimo Trump and do away with it all together. Protesting and free speech are absolutely unnecessary and are detrimental to political stability, national security and national efficiency.

Go move to Uzbekistan, Tajikistan or Turkmenistan and let us know how great dictatorship is. In Uzbekistan you can't move from town to another without government approval

And there are dictatorships where you can move from town to town without government approval. I support repressing freedom of speech and protesting, maybe regulating or removing democracy all together. I don't necessarily support a Big Brother style government. More authoritarian than Putin, less than Franco, is my style

Why would I need to protest? the police are already shooting at people exercising their first amendment "rights". With the way things are going, President Trump will hopefully become Generalissimo Trump and do away with it all together. Protesting and free speech are absolutely unnecessary and are detrimental to political stability, national security and national efficiency.

Thats easy to say when you don't live in a dictatorship. If you think tyranny is fun, move from the UK to North Korea.

I don't support North Korea either, In fact I'm an advocate for regime change and forced reunification.

[Cisairse]

The anti-lockdown protests were dumb, but should not have been stopped (which they weren't).

These protests are not dumb, and should not be stopped (which they are being).

Spot the difference.

Both of them should have been stopped because they were breaking the law and endangering police and the general public.

My right to peaceably assemble under the First Amendment trumps your "right" to go to Target.

[Confessional Korea]

Do you think $600 a week is enough for everyone? I live in the UK where our social services have been gutted by a decade of austerity programs. Based on what my family members who have had to apply for government support have received, my mother and I concluded without a doubt that we would've to cancel all of our unnecessary subscriptions ie phone contracts and cut back to a meticulously planned grocery list to make by. Nobody should be forced into that position.

$600 per week is around double the poverty line.

And if you want to play the "nobody should be forced into hardship due to factors beyond their control" card, well, I 100% agree. Welcome to the club of socialism. We need more members anyway.

I'm not a liberal lol, I'm way more sympathetic to socialism than capitalism.

[Bienenhalde]

And you might need to use violence to defend yourself and others against dangerous criminals too. You had better hope nobody accuses you of being a murderer just for doing what is necessary to defend yourself and others.

The idea that murdering someone is ever "necessary" is abhorrent, and you should feel bad for implying that is ever the case.

Killing someone isn't necessarily considered murder if it justified in defence of oneself or others.

[SangMar]

Do you think $600 a week is enough for everyone? I live in the UK where our social services have been gutted by a decade of austerity programs. Based on what my family members who have had to apply for government support have received, my mother and I concluded without a doubt that we would've to cancel all of our unnecessary subscriptions ie phone contracts and cut back to a meticulously planned grocery list to make by. Nobody should be forced into that position.

$600 per week is around double the poverty line.

And if you want to play the "nobody should be forced into hardship due to factors beyond their control" card, well, I 100% agree. Welcome to the club of socialism. We need more members anyway.

$600 dollars is £472 per week, you... might be okay, in the UK with that? I don’t know, if wouldn’t be great though.

That’s why I’m a social democrat... and communist in the US by association!

[San Lumen]

$600 per week is around double the poverty line.

And if you want to play the "nobody should be forced into hardship due to factors beyond their control" card, well, I 100% agree. Welcome to the club of socialism. We need more members anyway.

I'm not a liberal lol, I'm way more sympathetic to socialism than capitalism.

Yet you want a dictatorship where no one has any rights whatsoever and the government can do whatever it wants without consequences

[Cisairse]

$600 per week is around double the poverty line.

And if you want to play the "nobody should be forced into hardship due to factors beyond their control" card, well, I 100% agree. Welcome to the club of socialism. We need more members anyway.

I'm not a liberal lol, I'm way more sympathetic to socialism than capitalism.

Well, then, we're in agreement.

My biggest problem with the anti-lockdown protests was that they should have been protesting the system that decided their life wasn't important unless they can slave away for economic apparatus outside of their control, but instead they decided to protest not being able to slave.

Which I was very disappointed by.