US Anti-Police Protests and Riots Thread II

[Northern Davincia]

George Floyd the lovable gentle Drug addled giant.

waitaminute.

Rodrigo dutuerte would approve. He too thinks doing drugs should be justification for the murder of a man.

Duterte is based for many reasons.

[Shazbotdom]

Rodrigo dutuerte would approve. He too thinks doing drugs should be justification for the murder of a man.

Duterte is based for many reasons.

Based?

[Northern Davincia]

Duterte is based for many reasons.

Based?

Based is slang for being immovable in one's beliefs, especially if they are against popular wishes.

[Ifreann]

You would think this. Why make Floyd the martyr? It's confusing.

But then you realize it was never about George Floyd.

True. But they made him the posterchild. And that was a silly choice, as evidenced by the fact that even now people are describing him as a criminal that deserved it.

Seems to me that the people most concerned about the personal character of George Floyd are the people who want to use it to criticise the protests against police brutality and racial injustice, or worse, to justify his death.

---

People would do that regardless of who he was. Remember when Botham Jean was murdered by that police officer who shot him in his apartment because she thought it was hers? People immediately started trying to justify it by any means they could (including a report claiming he had gasp marijuana! in his apartment--I don't recall if the report was actually true or not, but the fact it was brought up at all as a justification is the issue). Murder is murder, quit trying to excuse it with irrelevant nonsense.

Was it murder then ? On the full vid you see Floyd actively resisting arresting for 20 minutes, refusing to follow orders, obviously being under the influence of something, yelling he cannot breathe several times - even when still in his car.
In all honesty I can understand why the cops stopped taking him seriously. The move used was still wrong; so punishment for that is justified - but insisting it was callous murder "because blacks do not matter" seems silly now.

While there, as mentioned, are 1000s of legit cases people could have used instead.

Because it must have been a cold, heartless, PR-minded decision to "use" George Floyd, right? It wasn't that people were sincerely outraged about him being murdered in broad daylight, in full view of witnesses, on camera, without the men responsible even being arrested, and therefore they protested, and those protests were cracked down on by the same police force that wouldn't arrest those murderers, and that lead to more protests, and the protests spread nationwide, and police forces nationwide tried to brutally suppress them, which lead to more protests, and so on in that fashion. Some people, some "They", possibly sitting in the secret boardroom of Antifa Headquarters or the BLM Command Centre, decided that yes, at last, we can use the death for our own fiendish goals. But fools that they are, they failed to realise that George Floyd was no angel. Game over, mysterious people, you lose!

---

Black people disproportionately commit crime.

And why do you think that is?

A better question would be why we think that matters. The police are, in theory at least, not actually permitted to just fucking kill criminals.

[Valrifell]

Rodrigo dutuerte would approve. He too thinks doing drugs should be justification for the murder of a man.

Duterte is based for many reasons.

Curious that the libertarian uses a positive adjective to describe someone who's trying to change the law to give himself sweeping powers to arrest anyone deemed a "terrorist" by the state.

Just change your sig already smh.

[Ifreann]

Duterte is based for many reasons.

Curious that the libertarian uses a positive adjective to describe someone who's trying to change the law to give himself sweeping powers to arrest anyone deemed a "terrorist" by the state.

Just change your sig already smh.

The libertarian capitalist dream is to be Duterte, to wield unlimited power over others, unrestrained by the law.

[Des-Bal]

A better question would be why we think that matters. The police are, in theory at least, not actually permitted to just fucking kill criminals.

Because if black people went to the beach twice as often as white people and were attacked by sharks twice as often it wouldn't be a sign sharks are racist.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

A better question would be why we think that matters. The police are, in theory at least, not actually permitted to just fucking kill criminals.

Because if black people went to the beach twice as often as white people and were attacked by sharks twice as often it wouldn't be a sign sharks are racist.

Ah. Well that explains everything. There is a Crime Space where criminals go to commit crimes, and police sometimes go to catch themselves a criminal.

Race aside, why aren't all criminals caught and punished? Do we just not have enough police to attend full time this magical place where everyone they see is a criminal?

[Des-Bal]

Ah. Well that explains everything. There is a Crime Space where criminals go to commit crimes, and police sometimes go to catch themselves a criminal.

Race aside, why aren't all criminals caught and punished? Do we just not have enough police to attend full time this magical place where everyone they see is a criminal?

They're called "crime scenes" they are fleeting things that appear periodically. We try to have enough police to dispatch them when they appear. Sometimes the criminals are there but sometimes they need to be located later based on information gathered from the crime scene and other areas of relevance.

I don't fully understand how, in your mind, this was a takedown or even response to what I said.

[Greed and Death]

Because if black people went to the beach twice as often as white people and were attacked by sharks twice as often it wouldn't be a sign sharks are racist.

Ah. Well that explains everything. There is a Crime Space where criminals go to commit crimes, and police sometimes go to catch themselves a criminal.

Race aside, why aren't all criminals caught and punished? Do we just not have enough police to attend full time this magical place where everyone they see is a criminal?

Police budgets are finite. Police have to prioritize what they investigate. If you do not have an idea who the suspect is and its a property crime rather than a crime against people you basically become a case.

[Ors Might]

Don’t really think it matters if Floyd was a decent person or not, assholes have rights, too.

Seriously, if you can’t see the problem with a cop kneeling on a suspect’s neck until they die, maybe you shouldn’t be discussing things involving the police?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Ah. Well that explains everything. There is a Crime Space where criminals go to commit crimes, and police sometimes go to catch themselves a criminal.

Race aside, why aren't all criminals caught and punished? Do we just not have enough police to attend full time this magical place where everyone they see is a criminal?

They're called "crime scenes" they are fleeting things that appear periodically. We try to have enough police to dispatch them when they appear. Sometimes the criminals are there but sometimes they need to be located later based on information gathered from the crime scene and other areas of relevance.

I don't fully understand how, in your mind, this was a takedown or even response to what I said.

Your post was a ridiculous analogy and nothing more. I extracted "beach" and "shark" from it, and there you have it.

Your analogy. Utter nonsense.

[Kowani]

Don’t really think it matters if Floyd was a decent person or not, assholes have rights, too.

Seriously, if you can’t see the problem with a cop kneeling on a suspect’s neck until they die, maybe you shouldn’t be discussing things involving the police?

Besides, in the new, 20 minute video we’re all supposed to be freaking out about because Floyd “was no Angel” or whatever, one of the very first things the cops do when they arrive is pull a gun on the guy, whose crime was a fake $20. If the video’s supposed to exonerate the police for their murder, it’s a fucking failure.

[Des-Bal]

Your post was a ridiculous analogy and nothing more. I extracted "beach" and "shark" from it, and there you have it.

Your analogy. Utter nonsense.

That's interesting because your deconstruction was simply that crime scenes are not permanent locations and people exist in them that are not criminals. Also possibly that you think beaches are magic?

If you do the thing that brings you into contact with a another thing more you can expect to see the negative outcome of interacting with that second thing more. If twice as many interactions do not result in twice as many negative outcomes it's evidence of another force at work and understanding that is key to understanding where problems exist and how to fix them.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Ah. Well that explains everything. There is a Crime Space where criminals go to commit crimes, and police sometimes go to catch themselves a criminal.

Race aside, why aren't all criminals caught and punished? Do we just not have enough police to attend full time this magical place where everyone they see is a criminal?

Police budgets are finite. Police have to prioritize what they investigate. If you do not have an idea who the suspect is and its a property crime rather than a crime against people you basically become a case.

Implicit in that is that increasing the police budget would increase the clear up rate of reported crimes.

A better way to increase clear-up rates would be to assure civilians that no suspect will be unfairly convicted, that no convict will receive an unfair sentence, and that any sentence will be fit to the suspect.

The key to clearup rates is willingness of the community to report crime, to co-operate with investigations, and to give evidence in court if necessary. That this requires reform of sentencing and of conditions in prison, goes wide of my point. The police part in it is to be more trusted, not more numerous nor more present on the street.

[Kowani]

Police budgets are finite. Police have to prioritize what they investigate. If you do not have an idea who the suspect is and its a property crime rather than a crime against people you basically become a case.

Implicit in that is that increasing the police budget would increase the clear up rate of reported crimes.

A better way to increase clear-up rates would be to assure civilians that no suspect will be unfairly convicted, that no convict will receive an unfair sentence, and that any sentence will be fit to the suspect.

The key to clearup rates is willingness of the community to report crime, to co-operate with investigations, and to give evidence in court if necessary. That this requires reform of sentencing and of conditions in prison, goes wide of my point. The police part in it is to be more trusted, not more numerous nor more present on the street.

The data backs you up, by the way.

[Ors Might]

Don’t really think it matters if Floyd was a decent person or not, assholes have rights, too.

Seriously, if you can’t see the problem with a cop kneeling on a suspect’s neck until they die, maybe you shouldn’t be discussing things involving the police?

Besides, in the new, 20 minute video we’re all supposed to be freaking out about because Floyd “was no Angel” or whatever, one of the very first things the cops do when they arrive is pull a gun on the guy, whose crime was a fake $20. If the video’s supposed to exonerate the police for their murder, it’s a fucking failure.

Sometimes you just have to wonder what their thought process is like. I’m genuinely curious to know how they thought that’d come across.

[Greed and Death]

Police budgets are finite. Police have to prioritize what they investigate. If you do not have an idea who the suspect is and its a property crime rather than a crime against people you basically become a case.

Implicit in that is that increasing the police budget would increase the clear up rate of reported crimes.

A better way to increase clear-up rates would be to assure civilians that no suspect will be unfairly convicted, that no convict will receive an unfair sentence, and that any sentence will be fit to the suspect.

The key to clearup rates is willingness of the community to report crime, to co-operate with investigations, and to give evidence in court if necessary. That this requires reform of sentencing and of conditions in prison, goes wide of my point. The police part in it is to be more trusted, not more numerous nor more present on the street.

None of which are the problem of the police.

[Kowani]

Besides, in the new, 20 minute video we’re all supposed to be freaking out about because Floyd “was no Angel” or whatever, one of the very first things the cops do when they arrive is pull a gun on the guy, whose crime was a fake $20. If the video’s supposed to exonerate the police for their murder, it’s a fucking failure.

Sometimes you just have to wonder what their thought process is like. I’m genuinely curious to know how they thought that’d come across.

Well, Chauvin, at least had like 17 complaints against him before this, so he probably didn’t think it would come across at all, what with the complete and total lack of accountability…

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Your post was a ridiculous analogy and nothing more. I extracted "beach" and "shark" from it, and there you have it.

Your analogy. Utter nonsense.

That's interesting because your deconstruction was simply that crime scenes are not permanent locations and people exist in them that are not criminals. Also possibly that you think beaches are magic?

If you do the thing that brings you into contact with a another thing

Good, we're getting our heads out of the absurd beach analogy, and back to policing.

more you can expect to see the negative outcome of interacting with that second thing more. If twice as many interactions do not result in twice as many negative outcomes it's evidence of another force at work and understanding that is key to understanding where problems exist and how to fix them.

Yeah, but "crime scenes" do not contain only criminals. Police turn up prepared to confront criminals but sometimes there is no criminal there. Sometimes there's a criminal, but all they're suspected of is passing a dud 20, and shit gets out of hand. Sometimes cops turn up to a crime scene and shoot an innocent person, whose house it is. Who has their hands up.

And yet, I'd be prepared to write that all off as accident. Cops panic and do dumb shit in the heat of the moment. If it wasn't for them killing the person on the crime scene blatantly more often when that person is black.

Your argument that criminals are more likely to be black, therefore cops arriving on a crime scene are more likely to shoot a black person, relies on the idea that whoever the cops encounter at a (reported) crime scene ... is necessarily a criminal.

Well also, that reports of crime are race neutral, but that's kind of another matter. Racial bias in reporting, that's a bit tricky.

[Des-Bal]

Sometimes you just have to wonder what their thought process is like. I’m genuinely curious to know how they thought that’d come across.

Quite a few people have actually turned around because of it. Floyd was complaining he couldn't breathe while he was standing up, he was also resisting so intensely that the officers physically could not get him into the car. That informs their decision to keep him prone, they had cause to doubt he was being suffocated and trying to maneuver him into another position could cause another struggle by the street.

The first footage just showed Floyd sitting on the ground before being taken off camera which it turns out was between two moments of intense struggle with multiple officers. This definitely re contextualizes things but it doesn't change the fact that they did a thing you cannot do.

[Greed and Death]

Sometimes you just have to wonder what their thought process is like. I’m genuinely curious to know how they thought that’d come across.

Well, Chauvin, at least had like 17 complaints against him before this, so he probably didn’t think it would come across at all, what with the complete and total lack of accountability…

The debt he owes on back taxes tells me the club he worked out was laundering money and he was in on.

[United Plains of America]

I believe that some cops may be racist, I also believed they are largely good people who uphold the law and protect the people. There are abusive and racist cops, yes, but they are a minority.

[Liriena]

Don’t really think it matters if Floyd was a decent person or not, assholes have rights, too.

American conservatism is a grift for people who want to feel like they're defending enlightened libertarian principles while being the most servile asskissers of arbitrary authoritarian governance in the western hemisphere.

[Liriena]

I believe that some cops may be racist, I also believed they are largely good people who uphold the law and protect the people. There are abusive and racist cops, yes, but they are a minority.

One big problem with your excuse: many of the laws all cops uphold are unjust. Ergo, all cops (regardless of how nice they might be personally) are at the very least unjust.