US Anti-Police Protests and Riots Thread II

[Greed and Death]

Uh oh retard alert. Retard alert

Please don't say that.

Yeah the police tend to shoot the mentally disabled.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Please don't say that.

Yeah the police tend to shoot the mentally disabled.

Don't equate my use of the word retard with people with intellectual disabilities. It's mean to call people with legitimate learning disabilities retarded, but righteous to call dumbass cocksuckers who should know better retards, like the cop who detained a black man while looking for a white suspect.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

It's weird seeing people worship the Hong Kong protests and riots while (rightfully) demonizing their cops for brutality, but when they're in the United States it's always some shit like "The victim got a speeding ticket 6 years ago", "Why can't they just protest peacefully", "not all cops", etc.

"When he was 12 he got in a fight at school so he was a violent thug and its good the cop who shot him put a stop to that criminal angry violent dangerous ni-"

Cuts to commercial break

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Yeah the police tend to shoot the mentally disabled.

Don't equate my use of the word retard with people with intellectual disabilities. It's mean to call people with legitimate learning disabilities retarded, but righteous to call dumbass cocksuckers who should know better retards, like the cop who detained a black man while looking for a white suspect.

Comparing people to various kinds of animals is my go-to when I feel the risk of being a hypocrite.

Though even with that, I have to be careful. There's a cat, a dog and a sheep who are regulars here

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Don't equate my use of the word retard with people with intellectual disabilities. It's mean to call people with legitimate learning disabilities retarded, but righteous to call dumbass cocksuckers who should know better retards, like the cop who detained a black man while looking for a white suspect.

Comparing people to various kinds of animals is my go-to when I feel the risk of being a hypocrite.

Though even with that, I have to be careful. There's a cat, a dog and a sheep who are regulars here

I compare them to cockroaches. Everyone hates them

[Liriena]

It's weird seeing people worship the Hong Kong protests and riots while (rightfully) demonizing their cops for brutality, but when they're in the United States it's always some shit like "The victim got a speeding ticket 6 years ago", "Why can't they just protest peacefully", "not all cops", etc.

"When he was 12 he got in a fight at school so he was a violent thug and its good the cop who shot him put a stop to that criminal angry violent dangerous ni-"

Cuts to commercial break

It's actually kind of brilliant how systemic racism in the criminal justice system has created a perfect circle of impunity. Because black people, and specially young black men, are disproportionately and systematically criminalized since childhood, the criminal justice system and its apologists can confidently rely on their victims often having some sort of record that they can use to retroactively demonize them. And since the American criminal justice system is awful at preventing recidivism (and, in fact, often has an economic incentive to encourage it), they can also rely on their victims sometimes being repeat offenders.

[The Lone Alliance]

It's weird seeing people worship the Hong Kong protests and riots while (rightfully) demonizing their cops for brutality, but when they're in the United States it's always some shit like "The victim got a speeding ticket 6 years ago", "Why can't they just protest peacefully", "not all cops", etc.

No it's usually "They did armed robbery 5 years ago" "They raped someone 6 weeks ago" "So they were beating their wife in front of the paramedics when the police showed up."

To pretend that all of these victims were perfect angels who lived virtuous lives is wrong, many of them had records, many of them had bad records.

Many of them did bad things, hell some of them might have been complete monsters, but that's not the question to be asking.

Should we take the entire book of law and throw it out the window and let the police just become Judge Dredd just because the people they're killing might have been horrible people?
Maybe if they were a legit threat to the police in question, but let's face it in many cases that's not what's happening, and even in cases where it is so, there should be investigations anyway.

It's one thing if you're in legit fear for your life, but the truth is that's often not the case, the cops aren't even shooting these people because they're complete monsters, the cops don't even know one way or another what kind of person they were, they don't actually care.


The cops aren't killing these people because they're threats, or because of their crimes, or because they got a speeding ticket 6 years ago, or because of some super complicated reason that would make a two hour movie to write, no they're shooting them because they're incompetent and lazy, or they're at the point that they no longer hold any value towards human life and think killing a man is the same as stomping on a bug, and that's a dangerous mindset to have when you have such power over people.

[Liriena]

It's weird seeing people worship the Hong Kong protests and riots while (rightfully) demonizing their cops for brutality, but when they're in the United States it's always some shit like "The victim got a speeding ticket 6 years ago", "Why can't they just protest peacefully", "not all cops", etc.

No it's usually "They did armed robbery 5 years ago" "They raped someone 6 weeks ago" "So they were beating their wife in front of the paramedics when the police showed up."

To pretend that all of these victims were perfect angels who lived virtuous lives is wrong, many of them had records, many of them had bad records.

Many of them did bad things, hell some of them might have been complete monsters, but that's not the question to be asking.

Should we take the entire book of law and throw it out the window and let the police just become Judge Dredd just because the people they're killing might have been horrible people?
Maybe if they were a legit threat to the police in question, but let's face it in many cases that's not what's happening, and even in cases where it is so, there should be investigations anyway.

It's one thing if you're in legit fear for your life, but the truth is that's often not the case, the cops aren't even shooting these people because they're complete monsters, the cops don't even know one way or another what kind of person they were, they don't actually care.


The cops aren't killing these people because they're threats, or because of their crimes, or because they got a speeding ticket 6 years ago, or because of some super complicated reason that would make a two hour movie to write, no they're shooting them because they're incompetent and lazy, or they're at the point that they no longer hold any value towards human life and think killing a man is the same as stomping on a bug, and that's a dangerous mindset to have when you have such power over people.

Gonna add my own emphasis to the underlined.

Even horrible people have human rights, including the right not to be summarily executed by lazy fuckers for a completely unrelated reason.

[American Pere Housh]

Anti police protests are a complete failure. Defunding police has only led to increased crime rates.

[Liriena]

Anti police protests are a complete failure. Defunding police has only led to increased crime rates.

[citation needed]

[Kowani]

Anti police protests are a complete failure. Defunding police has only led to increased crime rates.

[citation needed]

...I don't think there's any data on that, actually.

[The Alma Mater]

[citation needed]

...I don't think there's any data on that, actually.

Why not ? Surely the whole concept of having specialists around instead of expecting people to be good at 1000 vastly different tasks has been tested before ?

[Kowani]

...I don't think there's any data on that, actually.

Why not ? Surely the whole concept of having specialists around instead of expecting people to be good at 1000 vastly different tasks has been tested before ?

Specialists do tend to be better, but that assumes that said specialists are receiving markedly better training than the general population.
With the police, we don't...really have that.

[Gig em Aggies]

Why not ? Surely the whole concept of having specialists around instead of expecting people to be good at 1000 vastly different tasks has been tested before ?

Specialists do tend to be better, but that assumes that said specialists are receiving markedly better training than the general population.
With the police, we don't...really have that.

Well you won't get it if you cut money from the police budgets nor will,you get it if the cities keep taking every non-lethal weapon away such as tear gas, bean bags, rubber bullets etc

[Kowani]

Specialists do tend to be better, but that assumes that said specialists are receiving markedly better training than the general population.
With the police, we don't...really have that.

Well you won't get it if you cut money from the police budgets

We could, actually. Depends on how we allocate the funds, even with a net reduction.

nor will,you get it if the people keep,just attacking just because their cops

...What?

[Gig em Aggies]

Well you won't get it if you cut money from the police budgets

We could, actually. Depends on how we allocate the funds, even with a net reduction.

nor will,you get it if the people keep,just attacking just because their cops

...What?

I changed my statement but you were faster then I

[The Alma Mater]

Why not ? Surely the whole concept of having specialists around instead of expecting people to be good at 1000 vastly different tasks has been tested before ?

Specialists do tend to be better, but that assumes that said specialists are receiving markedly better training than the general population.
With the police, we don't...really have that.

You misunderstand. Currently, the police are expected to be able to do EVERYTHING - because they get all the funds and there is nothing left to hire specialists like social workers.

That is why when a mother has an upset autistic child heavily armed police and not a friendly social worker shows up.
After which we see that the cops, being expected to be good at 1000 different tasks, really... aren't. Because they are human.

Result: kid gets shot.

Defunding aims to allow specialists to exist, so that one does not need to have the people who also deal with violent drug gangs also deal with upset kids.

[Kowani]

Specialists do tend to be better, but that assumes that said specialists are receiving markedly better training than the general population.
With the police, we don't...really have that.

You misunderstand. Currently, the police are expected to be able to do EVERYTHING - because they get all the funds and there is nothing left to hire specialists like social workers.

That is why when a mother has an upset autistic child heavily armed police and not a friendly social worker shows up.
After which we see that the cops, being expected to be good at 1000 different tasks, really... aren't. Because they are human.

Result: kid gets shot.

Defunding aims to allow specialists to exist, so that one does not need to have the people who also deal with violent drug gangs also deal with upset kids.

Ohh, that's what you meant. In that case, yes, I agree that that's true, but it doesn't actually address my one-off comment about police and crime rates.

[Liriena]

Specialists do tend to be better, but that assumes that said specialists are receiving markedly better training than the general population.
With the police, we don't...really have that.

Well you won't get it if you cut money from the police budgets nor will,you get it if the cities keep taking every non-lethal weapon away such as tear gas, bean bags, rubber bullets etc

I'm sorry, but I can't really be nice about this...

Just how isolated from reality have you been for the past months that you believe rubber bullets are "non-lethal"?

Rubber bullets are not non-lethal, for fuck's sake. They can and have caused deaths. Specially when cops target people's eyes, which they have been doing throughout these protests. We've had multiple fucking cases of cops leaving photojournalists half-blind because they aimed for their fucking eyes.

For fuck's sake, dude. What the fuck? Please, for the love of Satan, fucking explain your ignorance.

[Liriena]

Well you won't get it if you cut money from the police budgets

We could, actually. Depends on how we allocate the funds, even with a net reduction.

nor will,you get it if the people keep,just attacking just because their cops

...What?

I really adore how Gig em Aggies is acting like people are just senselessly bigoted towards cops.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

It's weird seeing people worship the Hong Kong protests and riots while (rightfully) demonizing their cops for brutality, but when they're in the United States it's always some shit like "The victim got a speeding ticket 6 years ago", "Why can't they just protest peacefully", "not all cops", etc.

Personally, I've never made any of these arguments at any point AFAIK. It's entirely possible to condemn both the BLM riots that rocked Kenosha last month and the police brutality that was meted out against peaceful protesters back in June. As for the HK comparison, I wrote the following in response to a pro-PRC shill who accused me of hypocrisy for defending HK "rioters" all the while condemning BLM and the Kenosha riots:

To those who want to compare the BLM riots in America with the pro-democracy protests that rocked Hong Kong last year whether in support of both or opposition to both, I'll just leave this here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Hong_Kong_riots
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-3_incident

Leftist, CCP-backed communist riots were responsible for the CCP's de facto takeover of Macau in 1966-7. Portugal all but capitulated to the CCP's demands. Democracy died in Macau much earlier than it did in Hong Kong. Similar, CCP-backed leftist riots and terror attacks in Hong Kong were thankfully crushed by the British colonial government and rightly so. Had this not happened, HK would not have retained its freedoms and autonomy for as long as it did. These riots were anti-democratic in nature. The HK pro-democracy protests are liberal and pro-democratic in nature.

Similar, stealth communist riots inciting racial hatred, resentment, and paranoia under the guise of Black Lives Matter are currently taking place in the United States and should be condemned while peaceful BLM protesters (who vastly outnumber the rioters) should be left to their own devices, free to exercise their First Amendment right to hate speech. It's all about greed, envy, money, and power disguised as "anti-racism" and "social justice" to these rioters. That's what communism ultimately stands for and that's the common thread linking the CCP, leftist rioters in Hong Kong and Macau, and BLM rioters in the United States. BLM simply adds a racial element to the mix. The leftist riots in HK and Macau were also ostensibly "anti-racist" and "anti-imperialist" in nature.

Urgent police and criminal justice reform are required in both HK and the United States. In Hong Kong's case, the HKPF should be completely disbanded and the PLA garrison expelled from the city, paving the way for full independence for Hong Kong. Police brutality toward peaceful protesters in both countries should be universally condemned and the officers responsible held accountable for their actions, which they often are in America. Not one cop has been prosecuted for acts of violence toward protesters in Hong Kong. Not a single one. America also practices the rule of law and does not have a tyrannical, national security law imposed on its citizens from above by a foreign dictatorship that even overrides the Constitution, the highest law of the land, curtailing basic civil and political freedoms.

There are also those on the pro-BLM side who have compared Kyle Rittenhouse and other armed citizens peacefully guarding a gas station and offering medical aid to protesters and rioters alike in Kenosha to the Triad thugs that terrorized commuters in Yuen Long returning from a protest, savagely and indiscriminately beating people with weapons without any kind of provocation whatsoever and obviously paid and padded by the CCP and DAB. In Kenosha, Rittenhouse was chased and attacked by BLM thugs prior to opening fire on his assailants. These were volunteers who drove to Kenosha to help rebuild the city at their own expense. No one paid them to stir up trouble and escalate the situation. It was the BLM rioters who chased and attacked Rittenhouse, not the other way around. The BLM thugs and the Yuen Long thugs are the aggressors in both instances.

Note that I'm not accusing you or all self-identified communists of instigating the BLM riots or being personally responsible for the rise of the CCP and the CCCP (although I do blame communism as a whole), but the chief ideologues and instigators of the BLM riots are all identitarian, cultural Marxists. I do not accept for one moment that these racist Marxists and communists are actually misguided liberals as some have argued. There is nothing tolerant or liberal about scapegoating an entire race ("white supremacy", "racial justice"), stealing from others (looting, "reparations"), and ruining innocent people's lives (rioting, looting, and arson). There is certainly nothing tolerant or liberal about murdering someone who was simply walking by simply because they disagree with you (Portland Antifa terrorist shooting) and then celebrating their death.

I think Donald Trump needs to invoke the Insurrection Act just as past presidents have done in response to previous riots, the most recent being the 1992 LA race riots that ravaged Koreatown simply because some poor people were jealous of the success of hardworking Korean immigrants and partly and rightly in response to actual police brutality, which I thoroughly condemn. This does not mean I condone police brutality and abuse of power under any circumstances.

[Kexholm and Karelia]

It's weird seeing people worship the Hong Kong protests and riots while (rightfully) demonizing their cops for brutality, but when they're in the United States it's always some shit like "The victim got a speeding ticket 6 years ago", "Why can't they just protest peacefully", "not all cops", etc.

Law enforcement in the US needs to be dramatically scaled back, it is too powerful right now. The government is still democratic, but the minute a communist takes power, they can start a cultural revolution and begin mass murdering people with the police force in the US like Mao did in China. I don’t support defunding police but they need changes in their weaponry and training

[-Astoria-]

It's weird seeing people worship the Hong Kong protests and riots while (rightfully) demonizing their cops for brutality, but when they're in the United States it's always some shit like "The victim got a speeding ticket 6 years ago", "Why can't they just protest peacefully", "not all cops", etc.

These appear to usually be the same people who say, "WhAt AbOuT SlAvE CaMpS" when the topic is on prison reform.

[Valrifell]

It's weird seeing people worship the Hong Kong protests and riots while (rightfully) demonizing their cops for brutality, but when they're in the United States it's always some shit like "The victim got a speeding ticket 6 years ago", "Why can't they just protest peacefully", "not all cops", etc.

Law enforcement in the US needs to be dramatically scaled back, it is too powerful right now. The government is still democratic, but the minute a communist takes power, they can start a cultural revolution and begin mass murdering people with the police force in the US like Mao did in China. I don’t support defunding police but they need changes in their weaponry and training

The police in the United States are typically quite far from supporting anyone on the left, considering that it's usually leftist voices who want them defunded and right-wing talking heads who want to give them more money and respect.

That is to say, from the perspective of an officer, being actively politically leftist is self-defeating.

[Cannot think of a name]

Driving While Black is a very real thing.

An analysis of data collected by local police departments on millions of traffic stops over the last several years, conducted by ABC News in collaboration with ABC-owned stations, shows that Black drivers or pedestrians were more likely to be stopped by police than white drivers or pedestrians in several major U.S. cities, after accounting for the demographics of the cities and counties those police departments serve.

The data collected by police departments differ from city to city, but ABC News examined multiple years of data in almost every city. Experts stress that racial disparities alone cannot prove racial bias. Rather, the data analysis simply shows the often vast differences in how often members of a city's police force interact with Black people compared to white people in the same city.

In almost every major city examined, the analysis shows at least some disparity in traffic stops. In some cities, those disparities were significant. In Minneapolis, for example, where George Floyd was killed at the hands of the police officers earlier this year, Black drivers were five times more likely to be stopped by police than white drivers. In Chicago and San Francisco, Black drivers were four times more likely to be stopped. And in Philadelphia and Los Angeles, Black drivers were about three times more likely to be stopped.

In cities where ABC News was able to examine police stops of pedestrians, the disparities were often even higher. In Chicago, Black pedestrians are nine times more likely to be stopped by police than white pedestrians. In New York City, Black pedestrians are eight times more likely to be stopped. And in San Francisco, Black pedestrians are seven times more likely to be stopped.

Though I'm white, I have been subject of frequent policing and can attest to how fucking stressful it is and how it makes you feel like an other, unwelcome in your own society. And I'm white. I've seen this affect my friends of color who can't get a better car or better haircut and have this slowed down. I get the be glib about it.

There is an enormous, compounding financial effect to overpolicing, adding to the phenomenon that being poor is expensive.

Between 2002 and 2016, Castile was stopped 52 times, according to a complaint later filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, resulting in 86 minor traffic offenses. Although most of the charges were ultimately dismissed, Castile, a school cafeteria supervisor, was assessed a total of $6,588 in fines and fees.
...
According to Joanna Weiss, the cofounder and co-director of the nonprofit advocacy group Fines and Fees Justice Center, the consequences of these racial disparities in traffic stops ripple throughout the criminal justice system. In most states, she said, the failure to pay fines and fees associated with traffic violations can result in the suspensions of driver's licenses, creating what she called "an impossible choice" for many Americans.

"Once their license is suspended, you either stop driving, in which case you can't access work, you can't access childcare, you can't access healthcare, you can't access any of your basic necessities, or you take the risk and continue to drive," Weiss told ABC News. "The next time he's pulled over, now [it is] a misdemeanor charge, because driving on a suspended is a misdemeanor in every jurisdiction. That comes with additional fines and fees. It comes with possible jail time as well. So this is how we take somebody, just on the basis of their poverty, and induct them into the criminal justice system."

When your so heavily scrutinized and fined, that shit adds up. You're essentially paying your oppressors for the privilege of being oppressed. If you're getting pulled over fifty fucking two times in fourteen years, that's being oppressed. You are being singled out and prohibited from living free, and the numbers support it being down to the color of your skin.

Over policing can lead to false perception that are used to justify over policing, but the data doesn't support the perception:

The racial disparities in the data are not limited to the traffic stops themselves. In all nine cities where search conduct data was available, an ABC News analysis found that Black Americans are more likely to be searched during stops than white Americans. And in four out of the six cities where search results data was available -- Philadelphia; Chicago; Fresno, California; and San Francisco -- Black Americans who were stopped were less likely to be found possessing contraband than white Americans.

In only two out of the 12 cities examined by ABC News -- Louisville, Kentucky; and Houston -- Black drivers were as likely as white drivers to be stopped by the police. But a closer look at the data shows that, even in those cities, Black drivers were subject to more scrutiny than their white counterparts.

In Houston, Black drivers were three times as likely as white Americans to be searched after being stopped by police. In Louisville, Black drivers were more likely to be stopped for suspected violations that turned out to not be serious enough to lead officers to issue the driver a citation.

Shit needs to change.

Frank Baumgartner, a professor of the political science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the coauthor of "Suspect Citizens: What 20 Million Tell Us About Policing and Race," said the racial disparities in traffic stops fuel a sense of mistrust among law enforcement and the people they are meant to serve, so he recommended a shift to a less counterproductive policing strategy.

"Stop using the traffic code as an excuse to go on a fishing expedition," Baumgartner said. "Make sure that the roads are safe, but don't use the traffic code and the vehicle code as an excuse to fight the war on crime because we have to recognize that the vast majority of people who are pulled over, are searched, potentially humiliated, are going to be innocent."