US Anti-Police Protests and Riots Thread II

[Bassoe]

News update, Governor Tony Evers of Kenosha is offering loans to businesses destroyed by rioters while he kept demanded the federal guard stay out and the police stand down. Specifically, loans of $20,000, which you will recognize is not nearly enough money to demolish the fire-gutted husks of buildings, let alone rebuild and which are loans, meaning he expects them paid back.

govdelivery press release
thehill article
wiscnews article
nbc15 article
bizjournals article

[Salus Maior]

News update, Governor Tony Evers of Kenosha is offering loans to businesses destroyed by rioters while he kept demanded the federal guard stay out and the police stand down. Specifically, loans of $20,000, which you will recognize is not nearly enough money to demolish the fire-gutted husks of buildings, let alone rebuild and which are loans, meaning he expects them paid back.

govdelivery press release
thehill article
wiscnews article
nbc15 article
bizjournals article

Well, he's not getting reelected.

[The Lone Alliance]

News update, Governor Tony Evers of Kenosha is offering loans to businesses destroyed by rioters while he kept demanded the federal guard stay out and the police stand down. Specifically, loans of $20,000, which you will recognize is not nearly enough money to demolish the fire-gutted husks of buildings, let alone rebuild and which are loans, meaning he expects them paid back.

govdelivery press release
thehill article
wiscnews article
nbc15 article
bizjournals article

Pack up, leave the city, and tell the Governor to go fuck himself.
The town deserves to crash and burn, maybe their precious rioters can rebuild the city, oh wait they can't because they're just a bunch of retarded criminals.

[Liriena]

The town deserves to crash and burn, maybe their precious rioters can rebuild the city, oh wait they can't because they're just a bunch of retarded criminals.

Very rational take.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Yes, let's reward them for doing such a terrible job, as if they weren't very highly paid and notorious for time theft and absurd OT requests anyways!

The average police pay in my state is around $42,000, which is well below the average employee pay of around $51,000. My point in calling for higher wages and standards is this. What sorts of people do you want to attract to do a job that, by your own admission, is currently done poorly? If you pay subpar wages, you can expect to attract fewer educated people with plenty of other, higher-paying options as employees and so you shrink your potential recruitment pool by cutting out a lot of the more educated, professional, and competent potential recruits. If you want law enforcement officers to train like lawyers or skilled mental health professionals, you need to pay them like those folks.

Doctors and lawyers have 6 years of "training" and they're also selected quite narrowly by previous academic performance. If after that you offered them shift work with added danger of being shot, you'd have to pay them even more than doctors and lawyers currently are paid.

Better trained police would be good, and an intake of better people. Both of those involve spending money (on say 1 years training with further education part time while working on probation, and by higher wages across the board) though perhaps the former could be partially recovered by a lien on wages for two or three years.

But I think a more practical approach to the situations that are ambiguous and fall in between "requires armed response" and "requires a social worker" would be those top quality cops that are going to be so expensive, but unarmed and in a different uniform (or no uniform). Concealed weapons may be an option, or weapons left back in the car. Bodycams, though those could be more discrete, and perhaps have a patch to cover them if a civilian requires that as a condition of entering their property.

"The average police pay in my state is around $42,000, which is well below the average employee pay of around $51,000"

Yeah but. National average wage is quite a bit higher than national median wage, because a few very high wages at the top move the average up. Police wages in any one state don't reach such heights. So comparing the averages is a bit misleading.

So is a "subpar" wage less than the average wage, or the median wage? The astronomical wages of CEO's and rock stars don't belong on this scale for public employees, so imo it would make more sense to use the median (half of workers getting less, the other half more) which is more like 40K than 50K.

Paying SOME cops more isn't out of the question: that would be for playing a more specialist role requiring more qualifications but the same degree of risk. I'd do that first and see if it works, because raising police wages across the board has a good side (attracting better cops in the future) but also a bad side (rewarding bad and indifferent cops for nothing, also giving incentive to stay in the force).

[Nobel Hobos 2]

News update, Governor Tony Evers of Kenosha

Eh?

News update, Governor Tony Evers of Kenosha is offering loans to businesses destroyed by rioters while he kept demanded the federal guard stay out and the police stand down. Specifically, loans of $20,000, which you will recognize is not nearly enough money to demolish the fire-gutted husks of buildings, let alone rebuild and which are loans, meaning he expects them paid back.

govdelivery press release
thehill article
wiscnews article
nbc15 article
bizjournals article

Pack up, leave the city, and tell the Governor to go fuck himself.
The town deserves to crash and burn, maybe their precious rioters can rebuild the city, oh wait they can't because they're just a bunch of retarded criminals.

Did your second-best top hat get destroyed in the fires?

It's only 20K, but still they could invest it and make a bit for nothing. It's a no-interest loan, why would you say no to that?

[Northern Davincia]

News update, Governor Tony Evers of Kenosha

Eh?

Pack up, leave the city, and tell the Governor to go fuck himself.
The town deserves to crash and burn, maybe their precious rioters can rebuild the city, oh wait they can't because they're just a bunch of retarded criminals.

Did your second-best top hat get destroyed in the fires?

It's only 20K, but still they could invest it and make a bit for nothing. It's a no-interest loan, why would you say no to that?

It's still not enough to restore their previous condition. It is an insult.

[Phoenicaea]

^high wages, if compared with europe. the question it summons, which is the value of dollar (the cost of living) in america, you can suppose the cost higher and true living is poorer than what has been said.

a dire crisis, while european authorities, as often happens, stay in the track of following said ‘american path’, with much credit and debt, and low fairness, even after we receive proofs it worsens things.

too easy to follow leading countries in their vices.

[Dresderstan]

Eh?



Did your second-best top hat get destroyed in the fires?

It's only 20K, but still they could invest it and make a bit for nothing. It's a no-interest loan, why would you say no to that?

It's still not enough to restore their previous condition. It is an insult.

And it's a loan, and if he expects people to pay it back well they should tell the governor fuck off and run him out of town.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

It's still not enough to restore their previous condition. It is an insult.

And it's a loan, and if he expects people to pay it back well they should tell the governor fuck off and run him out of town.

It's a loan without interest. You know how silly it is to reject that like it's worth less-than-nothing?

Sheesh, the quality of capitalists on this board is really going down. Giving up personal profit to make a political point

[San Lumen]

News update, Governor Tony Evers of Kenosha is offering loans to businesses destroyed by rioters while he kept demanded the federal guard stay out and the police stand down. Specifically, loans of $20,000, which you will recognize is not nearly enough money to demolish the fire-gutted husks of buildings, let alone rebuild and which are loans, meaning he expects them paid back.

govdelivery press release
thehill article
wiscnews article
nbc15 article
bizjournals article

Pack up, leave the city, and tell the Governor to go fuck himself.
The town deserves to crash and burn, maybe their precious rioters can rebuild the city, oh wait they can't because they're just a bunch of retarded criminals.

How rational of you.

What would you have done differently if you were governor or mayor?

[Kowani]

It's still not enough to restore their previous condition. It is an insult.

And it's a loan, and if he expects people to pay it back well they should tell the governor fuck off and run him out of town.

I'm sure they can cover the rebuilding costs with their GoFundMe's.

[Bassoe]

How rational of you.

What would you have done differently if you were governor or mayor?

Sue the all the corporations donating to express support for the riots with the intention of seizing money under RICO or civil forfeiture to compensate victims. I'd never win the lawsuits against the corporate-funded lawyers and pay-to-win american legal system, but the publicity of having tried would basically guarantee my reelection.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

And it's a loan, and if he expects people to pay it back well they should tell the governor fuck off and run him out of town.

I'm sure they can cover the rebuilding costs with their GoFundMe's.

Even those who had insurance. They should probably disclose whether they did or not, when making a GFM.

Hell, maybe they should disclose their businesses actual worth too. People tend to see a burned out building that had a business in it, and assume the business was worth at least half a million because it owned the building. But businesses don't all own the building they operate from. Their only asset might be the stock, AND they might hold debts greater than the stock but still be solvent because only interest payments on their debt, plus operating costs, have to be over-balanced by revenue to not be bankrupt.

Some businesses in other words, actually have negative value. GoFunders would be acting more justly if they gave their pile of money to a homeless person. Of course, not all businesses. Some quite valuable businesses that were destroyed, without insurance, deserve half of the losses restored to them.

Why half? They could afford insurance but they didn't have it. That's a bad business decision, and the free market would give them nothing. On the other hand, the welfare state approach would be to compensate anyone suffering losses for anything that's not their fault (ie universal insurance) but if it's only applied in cases of no-private-insurance then it compensates companies for the above bad business decision. The contingent approach is to split those two ideals. Government gives uninsured businesses that were lost, one half of their losses.

GoFundMe users can't see the books of those businesses. Therefore they should not put their money in.

[Kowani]

I'm sure they can cover the rebuilding costs with their GoFundMe's.

Even those who had insurance. They should probably disclose whether they did or not, when making a GFM.

Hell, maybe they should disclose their businesses actual worth too. People tend to see a burned out building that had a business in it, and assume the business was worth at least half a million because it owned the building. But businesses don't all own the building they operate from. Their only asset might be the stock, AND they might hold debts greater than the stock but still be solvent because only interest payments on their debt, plus operating costs, have to be over-balanced by revenue to not be bankrupt.

Some businesses in other words, actually have negative value. GoFunders would be acting more justly if they gave their pile of money to a homeless person. Of course, not all businesses. Some quite valuable businesses that were destroyed, without insurance, deserve half of the losses restored to them.

Why half? They could afford insurance but they didn't have it. That's a bad business decision, and the free market would give them nothing. On the other hand, the welfare state approach would be to compensate anyone suffering losses for anything that's not their fault (ie universal insurance) but if it's only applied in cases of no-private-insurance then it compensates companies for the above bad business decision. The contingent approach is to split those two ideals. Government gives uninsured businesses that were lost, one half of their losses.

GoFundMe users can't see the books of those businesses. Therefore they should not put their money in.

I don't think our league of "patriots" particularly cares...

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Even those who had insurance. They should probably disclose whether they did or not, when making a GFM.

Hell, maybe they should disclose their businesses actual worth too. People tend to see a burned out building that had a business in it, and assume the business was worth at least half a million because it owned the building. But businesses don't all own the building they operate from. Their only asset might be the stock, AND they might hold debts greater than the stock but still be solvent because only interest payments on their debt, plus operating costs, have to be over-balanced by revenue to not be bankrupt.

Some businesses in other words, actually have negative value. GoFunders would be acting more justly if they gave their pile of money to a homeless person. Of course, not all businesses. Some quite valuable businesses that were destroyed, without insurance, deserve half of the losses restored to them.

Why half? They could afford insurance but they didn't have it. That's a bad business decision, and the free market would give them nothing. On the other hand, the welfare state approach would be to compensate anyone suffering losses for anything that's not their fault (ie universal insurance) but if it's only applied in cases of no-private-insurance then it compensates companies for the above bad business decision. The contingent approach is to split those two ideals. Government gives uninsured businesses that were lost, one half of their losses.

GoFundMe users can't see the books of those businesses. Therefore they should not put their money in.

I don't think our league of "patriots" particularly cares...

I don't object to charity on principle, but the populist charity of GoFundMe (and similar) does cast the motives of charity in a very bad light. Some people become seriously rich because their apparent cause is popular, others get nothing. And the lack of accountability of the recipients, is horrifying.

Patronage is a better model. People get a small income to do what they said they would, they're required to disclose that in detail, then other patrons join or some leave according to how satisfied they are with progress in ... whatever it was.

I'm still not sure about half compensation. It should vary with expected future earnings, but that's very hard to estimate for small businesses, and not that easy for businesses with shares in the market either.

[Liriena]

How rational of you.

What would you have done differently if you were governor or mayor?

Sue the all the corporations donating to express support for the riots

Riots =/= protests

[Nobel Hobos 2]

How rational of you.

What would you have done differently if you were governor or mayor?

Sue the all the corporations donating to express support for the riots with the intention of seizing money under RICO or civil forfeiture to compensate victims. I'd never win the lawsuits against the corporate-funded lawyers and pay-to-win american legal system, but the publicity of having tried would basically guarantee my reelection.

You'll need a list of corporate names to sue.
The publicity of loudly naming some suspects then not being allowed into court because your case is so weak, isn't the sort of publicity you want.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

How rational of you.

What would you have done differently if you were governor or mayor?

Sue the all the corporations donating to express support for the riots with the intention of seizing money under RICO or civil forfeiture to compensate victims. I'd never win the lawsuits against the corporate-funded lawyers and pay-to-win american legal system, but the publicity of having tried would basically guarantee my reelection.

Not only because the lawsuit is pay to win, but the suit you want to file makes absolutely no legal sence whatsoever.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The town deserves to crash and burn, maybe their precious rioters can rebuild the city, oh wait they can't because they're just a bunch of retarded criminals.

Very rational take.

A lot of context is missing honestly. Does this politician have a local budget such that its feasible that he could have provided anything more than loans? Clearly it sounds like this amount isn't enough to prevent the economic legacy of the rioting depressing the economy of the area, possibly significantly.

The argument seems to be that since the initial policy of letting the protestors have the streets was a disaster, this amount of money is an insult and everyone deserves to suffer. But if this is all the guy is able to do after the event it is better than nothing rather than itself being a new outrage.

Perhaps I'm missing the point.

[Phoenicaea]

^insist with repression shall assure tranquility to the president family and his associates, and will cause harsher insurgent attempts as terms pass, until pre-soviet revolution threshold.

[Gravlen]

Sue the all the corporations donating to express support for the riots with the intention of seizing money under RICO or civil forfeiture to compensate victims. I'd never win the lawsuits against the corporate-funded lawyers and pay-to-win american legal system, but the publicity of having tried would basically guarantee my reelection.

Not only because the lawsuit is pay to win, but the suit you want to file makes absolutely no legal sence whatsoever.

Does that post even make semantic sense?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

News update, Governor Tony Evers of Kenosha is offering loans to businesses destroyed by rioters while he kept demanded the federal guard stay out and the police stand down. Specifically, loans of $20,000, which you will recognize is not nearly enough money to demolish the fire-gutted husks of buildings, let alone rebuild and which are loans, meaning he expects them paid back.

govdelivery press release
thehill article
wiscnews article
nbc15 article
bizjournals article

Pack up, leave the city, and tell the Governor to go fuck himself.
The town deserves to crash and burn, maybe their precious rioters can rebuild the city, oh wait they can't because they're just a bunch of retarded criminals.

Totally not people angry about what the cops did. They all are just retarded criminals.

Unfortunately because many people in power have your view, things won't change. People still don't understand why folks are so mad.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

How rational of you.

What would you have done differently if you were governor or mayor?

Sue the all the corporations donating to express support for the riots with the intention of seizing money under RICO or civil forfeiture to compensate victims. I'd never win the lawsuits against the corporate-funded lawyers and pay-to-win american legal system, but the publicity of having tried would basically guarantee my reelection.

No one is donating to the riots. The corporations made half assed donations to black lives matter to feel good about themselves and what you're discussing amounts to a violation of first amendment rights.

[Gravlen]

I think I was quite clear. Its apparent police forces nationwide think they should be above criticism and their fellow officers can do no wrong ever.

It's less that and more not accepting every crazy ass temper tantrum literally thousands of people throw at them daily. This isn't to say police officers aren't dicks sometimes but when you deal with people being idiots daily, your patience wears awfully thin.

Ah, those poor, hypersensitive police officers. You make a good case for why they shouldn't be authorized to carry weapons.

Is your view that the police lack sufficient training, or that they recruit people completely unsuited to be law enforcement officers?