US Anti-Police Protests and Riots Thread II

[Saiwania]

The issue is some officers pulling the pulling out their firearms and squeezing the trigger when they don't need to do so.

Officers typically get fired or dismissed if they have too much restraint. Opting to shoot someone not as a last resort is rewarded and not punished. The training is likely all wrong. The police officers that're ex-military I'd consider as more of an asset compared to those who aren't. The military deals with way more dangerous situations in war zones but is somehow relatively less trigger happy once the actual warring phase is over. Barring the occasional scandals. US military can't exactly gun down foreign civilians on a whim, because they're more subject to something like a courts martial in those circumstances.

[Gravlen]

Food for thought...
Officers injured by rioters due to rioting incited at the call to violence by BLM have been granted by the courts the ability to sue BLM, which due to massive corporate and private contributions, and little to no spending money on Black lives, or any type of outreach or life betterment initiatives, has deep coffers. To the tune of over 100 million, 33 million from George Soros alone. Such a philanthropic guy, that Soros.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/court-injured-officer-sue-black-lives-matter-organizer-62660555
https://ehlinelaw.com/blog/blm-marxist-sued
Well, IMHO, if you incite others to violence, then you should be held responsible.

You're right, your post is food for thought.

I mean, how is it that a relatively easily understood concept such as "incitement to violence" so often is fundamentally misunderstood? Your post is a great example of that, so thank you for willingly risking ridicule and mockery in order to showcase how such a bad legal take can spread.

Great satirical tone, too. I was very nearly convinced that you were serious

[Gravlen]

For those wondering, it should be noted that the issue before the court in Doe v. McKesson is whether the First Amendment and the Supreme Court’s decision in NAACP v. Claiborne Hardware Co. foreclose a state-law negligence action making a “leader” of a protest demonstration personally liable in damages for injuries inflicted by an unidentified person’s violent act there, when it is undisputed that the leader neither authorized, directed nor ratified the perpetrator’s act, nor engaged in or incited violence of any kind.

As the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit stated in their decision:

Officer Doe’s complaint is vague about the underlying conspiracy to which Mckesson agreed, or with whom such an agreement was made. In his complaint, Officer Doe refers to a conspiracy "to incite a riot/protest." Disregarding Officer Doe’s conclusory allegations, we find that Officer Doe has not alleged facts that would support a plausible claim that Mckesson can be held liable for his injuries on a theory of civil conspiracy. Although Officer Doe has alleged facts that support an inference that Mckesson agreed with unnamed others to demonstrate illegally on a public highway, he has not pled facts that would allow a jury to conclude that Mckesson colluded with the unknown assailant to attack Officer Doe or knew of the attack and specifically ratified it. The closest that Officer Doe comes to such an allegation is when he states that Mckesson was "giving orders" throughout the demonstration. But we cannot infer from this quite unspecific allegation that Mckesson ordered the unknown assailant to attack Officer Doe. Lacking an allegation of this pleading quality, Officer Doe’s conspiracy claim must and does fail.

The whole claim about incitement failed. What remains is an issue about liability due to negligence.


EDIT: Oh, and the idea that BLM can be sued is also incorrect:

Therefore, we find that the district court did not err in concluding that Officer Doe’s complaint has failed plausibly to allege that Black Lives Matter is an entity capable of being sued.

[Blasted Craigs]

Food for thought...
Officers injured by rioters due to rioting incited at the call to violence by BLM have been granted by the courts the ability to sue BLM, which due to massive corporate and private contributions, and little to no spending money on Black lives, or any type of outreach or life betterment initiatives, has deep coffers. To the tune of over 100 million, 33 million from George Soros alone. Such a philanthropic guy, that Soros.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/court-injured-officer-sue-black-lives-matter-organizer-62660555
https://ehlinelaw.com/blog/blm-marxist-sued
Well, IMHO, if you incite others to violence, then you should be held responsible.

You're right, your post is food for thought.

I mean, how is it that a relatively easily understood concept such as "incitement to violence" so often is fundamentally misunderstood? Your post is a great example of that, so thank you for willingly risking ridicule and mockery in order to showcase how such a bad legal take can spread.

Great satirical tone, too. I was very nearly convinced that you were serious

Hmmm....
Well, I guess here they were referring to BBQ, not cops at all when they said, "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon,"https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pigs-in-a-blanket-chant-at-minnesota-fair-riles-police/
Or here when they stated chants calling for "Death to police" Must be that they meant defund police, not actually that they want them dead, right?https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/516232-la-mayor-condemns-protesters-shouting-death-to-police-outside-hospital
Oh, and when a Black Lives Matter speaker declares war on ‘filthy, disgusting animal’ cops" And stated “This is a war, guys … We’re getting ready to get armored up around here,”
That was satire, right? She meant metaphorically, not literally, right?
https://nypost.com/2020/08/19/blm-speaker-declares-war-on-filthy-disgusting-animal-cops/
Soooo.....calling for violence should never be punished, and if people get hurt, it's all good.

[Gravlen]

You're right, your post is food for thought.

I mean, how is it that a relatively easily understood concept such as "incitement to violence" so often is fundamentally misunderstood? Your post is a great example of that, so thank you for willingly risking ridicule and mockery in order to showcase how such a bad legal take can spread.

Great satirical tone, too. I was very nearly convinced that you were serious

Hmmm....
Well, I guess here they were referring to BBQ, not cops at all when they said, "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon,"https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pigs-in-a-blanket-chant-at-minnesota-fair-riles-police/

You seem confused. Louisiana is not Minnesota.

Or here when they stated chants calling for "Death to police" Must be that they meant defund police, not actually that they want them dead, right?https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/516232-la-mayor-condemns-protesters-shouting-death-to-police-outside-hospital

Louisiana is not California either. Your claim has no bearing on the suit you mentioned.

Oh, and when a Black Lives Matter speaker declares war on ‘filthy, disgusting animal’ cops" And stated “This is a war, guys … We’re getting ready to get armored up around here,”
That was satire, right? She meant metaphorically, not literally, right?
https://nypost.com/2020/08/19/blm-speaker-declares-war-on-filthy-disgusting-animal-cops/
Soooo.....calling for violence should never be punished, and if people get hurt, it's all good.

She? Wrong person. Mckesson is a 'he', and from Louisiana, not Oregon.

[Blasted Craigs]

For those wondering, it should be noted that the issue before the court in Doe v. McKesson is whether the First Amendment and the Supreme Court’s decision in NAACP v. Claiborne Hardware Co. foreclose a state-law negligence action making a “leader” of a protest demonstration personally liable in damages for injuries inflicted by an unidentified person’s violent act there, when it is undisputed that the leader neither authorized, directed nor ratified the perpetrator’s act, nor engaged in or incited violence of any kind.

As the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit stated in their decision:

Officer Doe’s complaint is vague about the underlying conspiracy to which Mckesson agreed, or with whom such an agreement was made. In his complaint, Officer Doe refers to a conspiracy "to incite a riot/protest." Disregarding Officer Doe’s conclusory allegations, we find that Officer Doe has not alleged facts that would support a plausible claim that Mckesson can be held liable for his injuries on a theory of civil conspiracy. Although Officer Doe has alleged facts that support an inference that Mckesson agreed with unnamed others to demonstrate illegally on a public highway, he has not pled facts that would allow a jury to conclude that Mckesson colluded with the unknown assailant to attack Officer Doe or knew of the attack and specifically ratified it. The closest that Officer Doe comes to such an allegation is when he states that Mckesson was "giving orders" throughout the demonstration. But we cannot infer from this quite unspecific allegation that Mckesson ordered the unknown assailant to attack Officer Doe. Lacking an allegation of this pleading quality, Officer Doe’s conspiracy claim must and does fail.

The whole claim about incitement failed. What remains is an issue about liability due to negligence.


EDIT: Oh, and the idea that BLM can be sued is also incorrect:

Therefore, we find that the district court did not err in concluding that Officer Doe’s complaint has failed plausibly to allege that Black Lives Matter is an entity capable of being sued.

Well, the decision was overturned by the same 5th curcuit, according to this article
Mckesson, reached Thursday for comment, said, "I'm disappointed and troubled by the 5th Circuit's reversal of the district court decision. I am currently exploring my legal options and will respond formally soon."
"Our ruling at this point is not to say that a finding of liability will ultimately be appropriate," Jolly wrote. "We are simply required to decide whether Officer Doe's claim for relief is sufficiently plausible."
So, it's not he is held liable. He can be sued for damages.
Like when someone is found innocent of actual wrongdoing, but the wronged party was hurt due to their actions, and under civil damages, are held financially responsible. So no jail time, but they if the court finds in favor of the plaintiff, the accused will have to pay financially.

[Blasted Craigs]

Hmmm....
Well, I guess here they were referring to BBQ, not cops at all when they said, "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon,"https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pigs-in-a-blanket-chant-at-minnesota-fair-riles-police/

You seem confused. Louisiana is not Minnesota.

Or here when they stated chants calling for "Death to police" Must be that they meant defund police, not actually that they want them dead, right?https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/516232-la-mayor-condemns-protesters-shouting-death-to-police-outside-hospital

Louisiana is not California either. Your claim has no bearing on the suit you mentioned.

Oh, and when a Black Lives Matter speaker declares war on ‘filthy, disgusting animal’ cops" And stated “This is a war, guys … We’re getting ready to get armored up around here,”
That was satire, right? She meant metaphorically, not literally, right?
https://nypost.com/2020/08/19/blm-speaker-declares-war-on-filthy-disgusting-animal-cops/
Soooo.....calling for violence should never be punished, and if people get hurt, it's all good.

She? Wrong person. Mckesson is a 'he', and from Louisiana, not Oregon.

My point was BLM has on multiple occasions called for violence, and you seem to infer they have not. Now, when an organization calls for violence on multiple occasions, is it hard to believe that when called to protest, violence will be forefront on their minds?
Are you really so dense as to nitpick? Especially when I made no claim that these events were at the location in question. But events such as these set a tone, that the organizer should have been aware of when he mobilized the protest, and by not taking that into account, he can be financially responsible. Hell, even Democrat leaders at the time called for violence, or civil unrest..
But sure, according to you, if I were to lead a mob holding pitchforks that has a history of calling for burning witches, to protest a lady in a house that may or may not be a witch, and they happen to burst down her door and kill her....
I'm completely innocent and no blame should fall on me....

[Kowani]

Final update on Breonna Taylor, the settlement has come out to be $12 Million

In addition, several of the reforms included requiring judicial permission for warrants, housing credits for officers who choose to live in the city (I'm not convinced on the efficiency of such a thing), and drug/alcohol tests for officers involved in shootings.

[Gravlen]

For those wondering, it should be noted that the issue before the court in Doe v. McKesson is whether the First Amendment and the Supreme Court’s decision in NAACP v. Claiborne Hardware Co. foreclose a state-law negligence action making a “leader” of a protest demonstration personally liable in damages for injuries inflicted by an unidentified person’s violent act there, when it is undisputed that the leader neither authorized, directed nor ratified the perpetrator’s act, nor engaged in or incited violence of any kind.

As the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit stated in their decision:

Officer Doe’s complaint is vague about the underlying conspiracy to which Mckesson agreed, or with whom such an agreement was made. In his complaint, Officer Doe refers to a conspiracy "to incite a riot/protest." Disregarding Officer Doe’s conclusory allegations, we find that Officer Doe has not alleged facts that would support a plausible claim that Mckesson can be held liable for his injuries on a theory of civil conspiracy. Although Officer Doe has alleged facts that support an inference that Mckesson agreed with unnamed others to demonstrate illegally on a public highway, he has not pled facts that would allow a jury to conclude that Mckesson colluded with the unknown assailant to attack Officer Doe or knew of the attack and specifically ratified it. The closest that Officer Doe comes to such an allegation is when he states that Mckesson was "giving orders" throughout the demonstration. But we cannot infer from this quite unspecific allegation that Mckesson ordered the unknown assailant to attack Officer Doe. Lacking an allegation of this pleading quality, Officer Doe’s conspiracy claim must and does fail.

The whole claim about incitement failed. What remains is an issue about liability due to negligence.


EDIT: Oh, and the idea that BLM can be sued is also incorrect:

Therefore, we find that the district court did not err in concluding that Officer Doe’s complaint has failed plausibly to allege that Black Lives Matter is an entity capable of being sued.

Well, the decision was overturned by the same 5th curcuit, according to this article

Wait, I link to and quote from the appeals court decision, and you think it's new information that they overturned the district court decision? Amusing.

Mckesson, reached Thursday for comment, said, "I'm disappointed and troubled by the 5th Circuit's reversal of the district court decision. I am currently exploring my legal options and will respond formally soon."

And he did. He has appealed the case to the Supreme Court, so it's not final yet.

"Our ruling at this point is not to say that a finding of liability will ultimately be appropriate," Jolly wrote. "We are simply required to decide whether Officer Doe's claim for relief is sufficiently plausible."

So, it's not he is held liable. He can be sued for damages.

Like when someone is found innocent of actual wrongdoing, but the wronged party was hurt due to their actions, and under civil damages, are held financially responsible. So no jail time, but they if the court finds in favor of the plaintiff, the accused will have to pay financially.

...

Wow.

No.

Sure, he can be "sued for damages", but he has to be found liable before he can be held financially responsible. (Black's Law dictionary defines liability thus: The state of being bound or obliged in law or justice to do, pay, or make good something; legal responsibility.) And the only way forward for Doe is to claim McKesson is legally liable due to negligence.

[Fartsniffage]

Final update on Breonna Taylor, the settlement has come out to be $12 Million

In addition, several of the reforms included requiring judicial permission for warrants, housing credits for officers who choose to live in the city (I'm not convinced on the efficiency of such a thing), and drug/alcohol tests for officers involved in shootings.

And still no-one has been arrested for her murder....

[Borderlands of Rojava]

You seem confused. Louisiana is not Minnesota.


Louisiana is not California either. Your claim has no bearing on the suit you mentioned.


She? Wrong person. Mckesson is a 'he', and from Louisiana, not Oregon.

My point was BLM has on multiple occasions called for violence, and you seem to infer they have not. Now, when an organization calls for violence on multiple occasions, is it hard to believe that when called to protest, violence will be forefront on their minds?
Are you really so dense as to nitpick? Especially when I made no claim that these events were at the location in question. But events such as these set a tone, that the organizer should have been aware of when he mobilized the protest, and by not taking that into account, he can be financially responsible. Hell, even Democrat leaders at the time called for violence, or civil unrest..
But sure, according to you, if I were to lead a mob holding pitchforks that has a history of calling for burning witches, to protest a lady in a house that may or may not be a witch, and they happen to burst down her door and kill her....
I'm completely innocent and no blame should fall on me....

BLM isn't even a single organization. Fuck are you on about?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Final update on Breonna Taylor, the settlement has come out to be $12 Million

In addition, several of the reforms included requiring judicial permission for warrants, housing credits for officers who choose to live in the city (I'm not convinced on the efficiency of such a thing), and drug/alcohol tests for officers involved in shootings.

And still no-one has been arrested for her murder....

How many times must we swallow our pride when some murdering fuck of a deputy kills somebody? Jail them.

[Kowani]

Final update on Breonna Taylor, the settlement has come out to be $12 Million

In addition, several of the reforms included requiring judicial permission for warrants, housing credits for officers who choose to live in the city (I'm not convinced on the efficiency of such a thing), and drug/alcohol tests for officers involved in shootings.

And still no-one has been arrested for her murder....

Apparently, there are two simultaneous investigations (Local & FBI)

[Kowani]

My point was BLM has on multiple occasions called for violence, and you seem to infer they have not. Now, when an organization calls for violence on multiple occasions, is it hard to believe that when called to protest, violence will be forefront on their minds?
Are you really so dense as to nitpick? Especially when I made no claim that these events were at the location in question. But events such as these set a tone, that the organizer should have been aware of when he mobilized the protest, and by not taking that into account, he can be financially responsible. Hell, even Democrat leaders at the time called for violence, or civil unrest..
But sure, according to you, if I were to lead a mob holding pitchforks that has a history of calling for burning witches, to protest a lady in a house that may or may not be a witch, and they happen to burst down her door and kill her....
I'm completely innocent and no blame should fall on me....

BLM isn't even a single organization. Fuck are you on about?

It's a very prominent narrative in conservative circles, that BLM is a singular, nebulous organization whose tentacles reach all of America.

[Geneviev]

And still no-one has been arrested for her murder....

How many times must we swallow our pride when some murdering fuck of a deputy kills somebody? Jail them.

They're investigating. Slowly, but they're investigating.

[Fartsniffage]

And still no-one has been arrested for her murder....

Apparently, there are two simultaneous investigations (Local & FBI)

They know who fired the shots. An interview under arrest is one of the most basic things one should do in an investigation.

[Kowani]

Apparently, there are two simultaneous investigations (Local & FBI)

They know who fired the shots. An interview under arrest is one of the most basic things one should do in an investigation.

I'm not saying they're not shitty investigations.

[Gravlen]

You seem confused. Louisiana is not Minnesota.


Louisiana is not California either. Your claim has no bearing on the suit you mentioned.


She? Wrong person. Mckesson is a 'he', and from Louisiana, not Oregon.

My point was BLM has on multiple occasions called for violence, and you seem to infer they have not.

I assumed that when you were talking about a particular case, you weren't really talking about everyone protesting everywhere. I guess I gave you too much credit.

Now, when an organization calls for violence on multiple occasions, is it hard to believe that when called to protest, violence will be forefront on their minds?

The United States is a huge country. If someone says something stupid in Minnesota five years ago, it's not necessarily representative of the mindset of people going to protest in Louisiana today.

Besides, it's really a stretch to claim that "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" is incitement to violence.

Are you really so dense as to nitpick?

It's just that it's so easy when your arguments are that bad and easily picked apart.

Especially when I made no claim that these events were at the location in question. But events such as these set a tone, that the organizer should have been aware of when he mobilized the protest, and by not taking that into account, he can be financially responsible.

Not according to the fifth circuit. They rejected the "tone" argument when they rejected the claims about incitement.

Hell, even Democrat leaders at the time called for violence, or civil unrest..
But sure, according to you, if I were to lead a mob holding pitchforks that has a history of calling for burning witches, to protest a lady in a house that may or may not be a witch, and they happen to burst down her door and kill her....
I'm completely innocent and no blame should fall on me....

Did you go beyond your rights under the first amendment? Protests does not equal incitement, so what did you do which makes you take responsibility for the actions of others?

[Gravlen]

My point was BLM has on multiple occasions called for violence, and you seem to infer they have not. Now, when an organization calls for violence on multiple occasions, is it hard to believe that when called to protest, violence will be forefront on their minds?
Are you really so dense as to nitpick? Especially when I made no claim that these events were at the location in question. But events such as these set a tone, that the organizer should have been aware of when he mobilized the protest, and by not taking that into account, he can be financially responsible. Hell, even Democrat leaders at the time called for violence, or civil unrest..
But sure, according to you, if I were to lead a mob holding pitchforks that has a history of calling for burning witches, to protest a lady in a house that may or may not be a witch, and they happen to burst down her door and kill her....
I'm completely innocent and no blame should fall on me....

BLM isn't even a single organization. Fuck are you on about?

Just be amused that he's invoking a case where the courts directly say you cannot sue BLM when trying to make the argument that you can sue BLM.

[Liriena]

Food for thought...
Officers injured by rioters due to rioting incited at the call to violence by BLM have been granted by the courts the ability to sue BLM, which due to massive corporate and private contributions, and little to no spending money on Black lives, or any type of outreach or life betterment initiatives, has deep coffers. To the tune of over 100 million, 33 million from George Soros alone. Such a philanthropic guy, that Soros.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/court-injured-officer-sue-black-lives-matter-organizer-62660555
https://ehlinelaw.com/blog/blm-marxist-sued
Well, IMHO, if you incite others to violence, then you should be held responsible.

Totally not an anti-Semitic dog-whistle.

[No State Here]

BLM isn’t an organization lol

However, the "Black Lives Matter" website, which accepts donations, sends them too Actblue

[Greater Miami Shores]

Food for thought...
Officers injured by rioters due to rioting incited at the call to violence by BLM have been granted by the courts the ability to sue BLM, which due to massive corporate and private contributions, and little to no spending money on Black lives, or any type of outreach or life betterment initiatives, has deep coffers. To the tune of over 100 million, 33 million from George Soros alone. Such a philanthropic guy, that Soros.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/court-injured-officer-sue-black-lives-matter-organizer-62660555
https://ehlinelaw.com/blog/blm-marxist-sued
Well, IMHO, if you incite others to violence, then you should be held responsible.

And if a private citizen as in this case commits the violence he or she has committed a crime, and needs to be identified, arrested and charged in a US court of law, no one should support them, excuse them or try to justify them.

[Kowani]

BLM isn’t an organization lol

However, the "Black Lives Matter" website, which accepts donations, sends them too Actblue

This is a common misunderstanding. It sends them through ActBlue.

[Fartsniffage]

BLM isn’t an organization lol

However, the "Black Lives Matter" website, which accepts donations, sends them too Actblue

I suppose it's a place to donate when donating to individual GoFundMes for police shot black Americans gets to much for a person.

....the idea that you need that for healthcare....

[The Emerald Legion]

Food for thought...
Officers injured by rioters due to rioting incited at the call to violence by BLM have been granted by the courts the ability to sue BLM, which due to massive corporate and private contributions, and little to no spending money on Black lives, or any type of outreach or life betterment initiatives, has deep coffers. To the tune of over 100 million, 33 million from George Soros alone. Such a philanthropic guy, that Soros.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/court-injured-officer-sue-black-lives-matter-organizer-62660555
https://ehlinelaw.com/blog/blm-marxist-sued
Well, IMHO, if you incite others to violence, then you should be held responsible.

Totally not an anti-Semitic dog-whistle.

This is why noone takes you serious when you talk about Dog Whistles.