US Anti-Police Protests and Riots Thread II

[Diarcesia]

Yes, Black NYU Students Demanded Segregated Housing. No, the University Didn't Agree to It.

That is funny considering people like MLK fought and was put into jail to stop segregation between white people and black people. He along with other Civil Rights era leaders would be turning in their graves if they could see what these people are trying to do.

Crap you're onto something.

[Fahran]

Yes, the government does like having ways to criminalise protesters.

Except the government is not criminalizing all protests against police brutality. Peaceful demonstrations have been held in Portland, Seattle, New York, Austin, and Dallas without immediate reprisals from law enforcement. What seems to make the difference is the behavior of protestors on the whole. A couple people setting fires or looting can set the tone and result in a protest being forcibly dispersed. Again, you can debate the specific tactics perhaps but it's simply false to argue that no crimes or violence were occurring at demonstrations that were dispersed by tear gas and rubber bullets.

The issue is that you apparently think that I must align my opinions to the results of opinion polls but you are not likewise limited.

You do not have an opinion poll suggesting that communities have any objection to dispersing riots and unlawful assemblies. If you can find a poll corroborrating that people in Portland or any other city are okay with riots raging out of control, I'll have no problem with denizens burning their cities to the ground. Consent of the governed and all that.

Law enforcement officers are barely trained in many states, and when they seek out additional training it's often insane "Warrior Training" courses that teach them that they are modern incarnations of holy knights who must go about their day to day lives expecting that at any moment they might need to pull out their gun and stop the next 9/11.

I think you're exaggerating a little bit. While I agree that too much emphasis has been placed on tactical training, most of the officers I have met are veterans or college-educated. All of the law enforcement officers I know in municipal areas have taken crisis management and mental health courses. Several have specialized in subjects like victim studies. Like I said, the tool kit for modern policing is a lot more expansive than "shoot people without warning." If we cut funding, we're reducing the ability of departments to adequately train officers to handle a diverse array of situations.

Shoot them both dead, of course. I would think that's obvious from my post.

You're joking but the truth of the matter is you don't really have a fall-back solution for incidents where social workers can't adequately deescalate a situation. The go-to solution with the police isn't to shoot someone. In fact, that'd be an irregular outcome statistically. They might restrain the agitated person. They might employ a tazer. They might subude and arrest them to get them to a more controlled location where better equipped professionals could take over. This is why it's useful to have law enforcement officers with mental health and crisis management training collaborating with social workers, mental health professionals, and medical professionals. It gives us a more diverse array of tools and skillsets to address problems.

You cannot violently override someone's alcohol addiction. You cannot beat or gas or shoot someone into being able to manage their alcohol consumption. Nor can you violently overcome someone's economic conditions. No amount of state-sanctioned violence will make a drug dealer stop needing money to survive under capitalism.

No, but you can take away their vehicle, force them to go to rehab, and, if they're a consistent danger, throw them in prison to prevent them from killing someone because they continue to drive while inebriated. With regard to drug dealers, you're not going to discourage someone who sells hard drugs to a community and earns more money than they'd make at an average job from selling hard drugs by giving them a $40,000 a year job. You're griping at capitalism while ignoring the fact that a guy who sells meths to kids is every bit as predatory as Jeff Bezos. Honestly, the drug dealer might even be worse if he's a big enough fish.

Yes, the police are an institution that emerged from and is maintained by a racist society. This isn't something that can be fixed by making tweaks to that institution.

Abolishing the institution might well result in racist outcomes as well. In the absence of an adequate substitute to the state monopoly on violence, you're leaving communities at the mercy of anyone who can fill the power vacuum. Tweaks and reforms to a wide array of institutions that result in the uplifting of historically marginalized groups, on the other hand, can fix the problem over an extended period, probably much better than untested and radical proposals.

Because you're not trying very hard to understand that the police, as the currently exist, are not the only means to achieve community defence.

They're a far more reliable means than local militias, gangs, and hooligans who are not beholden to state laws.

In the absence of the police, communities can organise their own defence according to their own needs. Like anti-fascist volunteers rallying to protect their communities from fascists.

I don't trust Antifa to police anything in all frankness. They did a miserable job in Seattle. As for the police standing down because the violence wasn't sustained and all participants were willing, you pretty much got a glimpse of what letting Antifa police things would look like. People acting like thugs because nobody can stop them and because they're self-righteous jackasses.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Yes, Black NYU Students Demanded Segregated Housing. No, the University Didn't Agree to It.

"No housing that excludes any student based on race" seems rock solid. Can't argue with that.

How about half and half. The black students sign up to a dorm house together, but they can't take more than half the places. Therefore no white (or other) student is being excluded from that dorm. The dorm will fill up eventually, we hope, but if it stays half full because the black residents are unwelcoming, they can pay double fees.

[Vassenor]

Yes, Black NYU Students Demanded Segregated Housing. No, the University Didn't Agree to It.

What does that have to do with police brutality and the reaction to it?

[Celritannia]

You don't have to be anti-military and anti-police to know that tear gas used against civilians is dangerous and should not be used.
Which, again, is why France is no longer using it and the UK is stopping all sales of CS to the US.

It is also obvious that over militarising the police is also dangerous.

Water Cannons are far better suited to dealing with riots than tear gas.

But to support the police's actions to the protesters to the same level as riots is idiotic to say the least.

Even then, there is a much better way to handle riots than heavy handed police tactics.
Better training should be initiated to the police services to deal with riots, instead of using a weapon literally banned from military use on the battlefield.

[SatoSere]

Tear gas is a major bruh moment for the cops. Why? It has been banned for military use, why should it be allowed for civilian use? If the military isn't allowed to use it, then why is the police allowed to use it?

[Celritannia]

Tear gas is a major bruh moment for the cops. Why? It has been banned for military use, why should it be allowed for civilian use? If the military isn't allowed to use it, then why is the police allowed to use it?

Exactly.
Just because the police are not under the Geneva Convention does not, in anyway stop the principles of its use.
In fact, it's far worse for police to use a banned military weapon against there own citizens.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Tear gas is a major bruh moment for the cops. Why? It has been banned for military use, why should it be allowed for civilian use? If the military isn't allowed to use it, then why is the police allowed to use it?

Because to some people, either tear gas or full on lethal force are the only ways to disperse crowds with literally no other alternative outside of those two options, apparently.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Tear gas is a major bruh moment for the cops. Why? It has been banned for military use, why should it be allowed for civilian use? If the military isn't allowed to use it, then why is the police allowed to use it?

Our military doesn't exactly respect weapons bans either lol

[South Odreria 2]

Tear gas is a major bruh moment for the cops. Why? It has been banned for military use, why should it be allowed for civilian use? If the military isn't allowed to use it, then why is the police allowed to use it?

Our military doesn't exactly respect weapons bans either lol

I assume “anti racist” in your sig has the traditional meaning of opposing racist policy and being against racist behavior when you see it?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Our military doesn't exactly respect weapons bans either lol

I assume “anti racist” in your sig has the traditional meaning of opposing racist policy and being against racist behavior when you see it?

Correct. I'd wholeheartedly support .gov crushing the Klan, New Black Panthers, etc etc.

[Liriena]

Yes, Black NYU Students Demanded Segregated Housing. No, the University Didn't Agree to It.

What does that have to do with police brutality and the reaction to it?

Too insignificant a story for a thread of its own (extremely localized and already resolved), and we don't have a designated "black activists bad" thread, so this was the closest thing he had to a relevant platform for it.

[Swindenland]

Maybe instead of defunding the Police, disarm regular Police officers like in most European nations.

The US doesn't even show any effort to stop police brutality. It seems like such an easy fix. The consequence of inaction are increasingly violent protests, CHOPs distopias, reverse racisim and fascist nujobs that can now justify shooting protestors they don't like because these can actually harm people.

Just a little effort, that's all the US needs.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Maybe instead of defunding the Police, disarm regular Police officers like in most European nations.

The US doesn't even show any effort to stop police brutality. It seems such a easy fix. The consequence of inaction are increasingly violent protests, CHOPs distopias, reverse racisim and fascist nujobs that can now justify shooting protestors they don't like because these can actually harm people.

Just a little effort, that's all the US needs.

That's an awful idea given the way American culture is and how prone we are to respond to situations with violence.

[SatoSere]

Maybe instead of defunding the Police, disarm regular Police officers like in most European nations.

The US doesn't even show any effort to stop police brutality. It seems such a easy fix. The consequence of inaction are increasingly violent protests, CHOPs distopias, reverse racisim and fascist nujobs that can now justify shooting protestors they don't like because these can actually harm people.

Just a little effort, that's all the US needs.

That's an awful idea given the way American culture is and how prone we are to respond to situations with violence.

Considering citizens are allowed to bear arms, wouldn't it be reasonable to arm around 10% of the police force?

[Washington Resistance Army]

That's an awful idea given the way American culture is and how prone we are to respond to situations with violence.

Considering citizens are allowed to bear arms, wouldn't it be reasonable to arm around 10% of the police force?

Every cop car at least needs a live fire weapon because there's a not insignificant chance they roll up to something and get fired on.

[SatoSere]

Considering citizens are allowed to bear arms, wouldn't it be reasonable to arm around 10% of the police force?

Every cop car at least needs a live fire weapon because there's a not insignificant chance they roll up to something and get fired on.

How many cop cars are there per cop?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Every cop car at least needs a live fire weapon because there's a not insignificant chance they roll up to something and get fired on.

How many cop cars are there per cop?

Usually there's one or two cops per car when out on patrol, at least everywhere I've lived.

[Swindenland]

That's an awful idea given the way American culture is and how prone we are to respond to situations with violence.

Considering citizens are allowed to bear arms, wouldn't it be reasonable to arm around 10% of the police force?

That's exactly what I meant. You should seperate firearms units and regular (unarmed) units. The regular police can always call for backup. However, I acknowledge that the situation in the US is different, since appereantly every second person there owns guns, bombs and whatnot. I'm just saying many accidents would be averted, if not every police officer had guns. I think almost all American police officers aren't racist, but accidents happen and even the most friendly and good-willed officer can shoot an innocent person because of wrong judgement. But whether or not the police officer was good or racist, the public will go nuts and angry mobs will cause chaos. Ironically, if the good guy had not had a gun, he would have remained a good guy in the eyes of the public and there would have been no protests. The US police is losing crediblity.

Eitherway you guys need to find a sound solution, otherwise trouble won't stop brewing.

[Kowani]

Considering citizens are allowed to bear arms, wouldn't it be reasonable to arm around 10% of the police force?

Every cop car at least needs a live fire weapon because there's a not insignificant chance they roll up to something and get fired on.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but haven't cop "in-the-line-of duty" fatalities been on the decline?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Every cop car at least needs a live fire weapon because there's a not insignificant chance they roll up to something and get fired on.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but haven't cop "in-the-line-of duty" fatalities been on the decline?

I believe so, but I don't think it's a stretch to assume that trend would reverse if officers were disarmed.

[Kowani]

Correct me if I'm wrong...but haven't cop "in-the-line-of duty" fatalities been on the decline?

I believe so, but I don't think it's a stretch to assume that trend would reverse if officers were disarmed.

Fair point, yes.


...Doing that as an experiment would be considered rather unethical, wouldn't it?

[Thermodolia]

How many cop cars are there per cop?

Usually there's one or two cops per car when out on patrol, at least everywhere I've lived.

This why I say we should limit the amount of weapons the cops have but not disarm them. If civilians can’t have automatic weapons then neither can the police.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Maybe instead of defunding the Police, disarm regular Police officers like in most European nations.

The US doesn't even show any effort to stop police brutality. It seems such a easy fix. The consequence of inaction are increasingly violent protests, CHOPs distopias, reverse racisim and fascist nujobs that can now justify shooting protestors they don't like because these can actually harm people.

Just a little effort, that's all the US needs.

That's an awful idea given the way American culture is and how prone we are to respond to situations with violence.

American cities are far more dangerous than European ones (unless it's Eastern Europe). American cops need guns of some kind.

[Insaanistan]

That's an awful idea given the way American culture is and how prone we are to respond to situations with violence.

American cities are far more dangerous than European ones (unless it's Eastern Europe). American cops need guns of some kind.

Yeah, they need guns. They just don’t need to be armed like they’re off to fight DAESH in the desert, when in reality they’re being sent to take care of US citizens.