US Anti-Police Protests and Riots Thread II

[Trollgaard]

But you wanted to get rid of all cops and said nothing about replacing them. So that leaves the local population to enforce the law!

Most things should be deregulated or left to social workers and other professions.

The social workers wills stop a bank robbery for sure.

[Kowani]

Most things should be deregulated or left to social workers and other professions.

The social workers wills stop a bank robbery for sure.

The general investment in the community will make bank robberies unnecessary.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Most things should be deregulated or left to social workers and other professions.

The social workers wills stop a bank robbery for sure.

Banks themselves have mostly stopped bank robbery. It's why armed holdups occur mostly in less secure businesses.

The chances of police being there or getting there during an armed holdup are pretty small.

You know what will really stop the problem? Businesses stop dealing in cash.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

The social workers wills stop a bank robbery for sure.

The general investment in the community will make bank robberies unnecessary.

I don't believe that. Relative wealth equality doesn't mean everybody stops being greedy.

[Trollgaard]

The social workers wills stop a bank robbery for sure.

The general investment in the community will make bank robberies unnecessary.

Might reduce them, but won't eliminate them. There will always be crime, even if it is greatly reduced. Thus there will always be a need for police.

However, that does not mean police should get away with BS that they have been. I don't know if mass firing, mass retraining, selective firings, maybe not filling in spots that open up or something would work.

I get that people want change, and there should be, but I don't think you can just massively cut police without having the ground work for these...social programs?and INSTANTLY be able to shoulder their load and not leave things in a worse state.

[Kowani]

The general investment in the community will make bank robberies unnecessary.

I don't believe that. Relative wealth equality doesn't mean everybody stops being greedy.

Well, okay, firstly, that's just plain untrue.
But anyway, most people don't get into the bank robbing business out of greed. Bank robbery is complex and dangerous, and its usually left to the more competent criminals-the ones with a decent bit of experience. But if you invest in underserved communities, you eliminate the circumstances that push people into a lifestyle of crime, preventing them from gaining the necessary experience (and spirit) to rob banks.

[Neutraligon]

The general investment in the community will make bank robberies unnecessary.

Might reduce them, but won't eliminate them. There will always be crime, even if it is greatly reduced. Thus there will always be a need for police.

However, that does not mean police should get away with BS that they have been. I don't know if mass firing, mass retraining, selective firings, maybe not filling in spots that open up or something would work.

I get that people want change, and there should be, but I don't think you can just massively cut police without having the ground work for these...social programs?and INSTANTLY be able to shoulder their load and not leave things in a worse state.

I think what is needed is a mix of retraining, reducing the duties and increasing social programs, and ensuring that police wear body cams at all times with consequences for turning them off and the like.

[Kowani]

The general investment in the community will make bank robberies unnecessary.

Might reduce them, but won't eliminate them. There will always be crime, even if it is greatly reduced. Thus there will always be a need for police.

NS2 explained pretty well why bank robberies aren't super common, so I have to ask...what is it exactly that you think police do?

However, that does not mean police should get away with BS that they have been. I don't know if mass firing, mass retraining, selective firings, maybe not filling in spots that open up or something would work.

I get that people want change, and there should be, but I don't think you can just massively cut police without having the ground work for these...social programs?and INSTANTLY be able to shoulder their load and not leave things in a worse state.

Well, cities can't run budget deficits the way the feds can, so something's gonna have to go, and I think the guys who are actively making things worse should be the first on the chopping block.

[Trollgaard]

Might reduce them, but won't eliminate them. There will always be crime, even if it is greatly reduced. Thus there will always be a need for police.

However, that does not mean police should get away with BS that they have been. I don't know if mass firing, mass retraining, selective firings, maybe not filling in spots that open up or something would work.

I get that people want change, and there should be, but I don't think you can just massively cut police without having the ground work for these...social programs?and INSTANTLY be able to shoulder their load and not leave things in a worse state.

I think what is needed is a mix of retraining, reducing the duties and increasing social programs, and ensuring that police wear body cams at all times with consequences for turning them off and the like.

That sounds sensible, but again, these changes require time. This is something you phase in gradual. Body cam rules yesterday, training once they figure out what training to give (I don't know, I'm not in that business), and gradual let other agencies handle certain calls that police used to handle once those agencies are up and running. And generally you can't get an agency up and running overnight. It seems to me that the gradual reduction in duties would be begin in what, 6 months to a year, and then gradually over the course of the next couple years gain steam. Something like that anyway.

[Trollgaard]

Might reduce them, but won't eliminate them. There will always be crime, even if it is greatly reduced. Thus there will always be a need for police.

NS2 explained pretty well why bank robberies aren't super common, so I have to ask...what is it exactly that you think police do?

However, that does not mean police should get away with BS that they have been. I don't know if mass firing, mass retraining, selective firings, maybe not filling in spots that open up or something would work.

I get that people want change, and there should be, but I don't think you can just massively cut police without having the ground work for these...social programs?and INSTANTLY be able to shoulder their load and not leave things in a worse state.

Well, cities can't run budget deficits the way the feds can, so something's gonna have to go, and I think the guys who are actively making things worse should be the first on the chopping block.

Police prevent and solve crime, and help citizens in need.They protect lives and property.
In theory, anyway.

Again, as mentioned, you can't just get rid of police entirely (ever), and not have the groundwork for their successor agencies in place.

[Kowani]

NS2 explained pretty well why bank robberies aren't super common, so I have to ask...what is it exactly that you think police do?

Well, cities can't run budget deficits the way the feds can, so something's gonna have to go, and I think the guys who are actively making things worse should be the first on the chopping block.

Police prevent

This. Hm. Some do, some don't. Since the early 2000's, the relationship seems to be not.

and solve crime,

A minority of it, anyway...

and help citizens in need.They protect lives and property.
In theory, anyway.

Yeah, in theory.

Again, as mentioned, you can't just get rid of police entirely (ever), and not have the groundwork for their successor agencies in place.

Eh, we do need the groundwork, I agree with you on that. It is, however, very possible to eliminate the institution that currently serves as "the police."

[Gormwood]

Might reduce them, but won't eliminate them. There will always be crime, even if it is greatly reduced. Thus there will always be a need for police.

However, that does not mean police should get away with BS that they have been. I don't know if mass firing, mass retraining, selective firings, maybe not filling in spots that open up or something would work.

I get that people want change, and there should be, but I don't think you can just massively cut police without having the ground work for these...social programs?and INSTANTLY be able to shoulder their load and not leave things in a worse state.

I think what is needed is a mix of retraining, reducing the duties and increasing social programs, and ensuring that police wear body cams at all times with consequences for turning them off and the like.

Quite a few posters are calling for American DeBaathification with police in place of Baath Party members. And we saw what happened after DeBaathification. Getting rid of police with no replacement is a recipe for a fucktastrophe.

[Trollgaard]

I think what is needed is a mix of retraining, reducing the duties and increasing social programs, and ensuring that police wear body cams at all times with consequences for turning them off and the like.

Quite a few posters are calling for American DeBaathification with police in place of Baath Party members. And we saw what happened after DeBaathification. Getting rid of police with no replacement is a recipe for a fucktastrophe.

Yep.

[Genivaria]

The social workers wills stop a bank robbery for sure.

The general investment in the community will make bank robberies unnecessary.

While I generally support defunding the police I don't think bank robbers are from poor backgrounds, robbing a bank requires professional skill.

[Farnhamia]

The general investment in the community will make bank robberies unnecessary.

While I generally support defunding the police I don't think bank robbers are from poor backgrounds, robbing a bank requires professional skill.

Uhm, no. Any fool can walk into a bank with a gun - or without - and stick up a teller. Cracking a safe might require some more skill but really, when's the last time you heard of that being done?

[Genivaria]

While I generally support defunding the police I don't think bank robbers are from poor backgrounds, robbing a bank requires professional skill.

Uhm, no. Any fool can walk into a bank with a gun - or without - and stick up a teller. Cracking a safe might require some more skill but really, when's the last time you heard of that being done?

I hope not alone or he's going to be shot very quickly by the armed security.

[Jraden]

Any fool can try to rob a bank, doesn’t mean they’ll be successful.

[Farnhamia]

Uhm, no. Any fool can walk into a bank with a gun - or without - and stick up a teller. Cracking a safe might require some more skill but really, when's the last time you heard of that being done?

I hope not alone or he's going to be shot very quickly by the armed security.

Not the point. It doesn't take any sort of skill to make the attempt. I haven't looked into the backgrounds of bank robbers.

[Alcala-Cordel]

I think what is needed is a mix of retraining, reducing the duties and increasing social programs, and ensuring that police wear body cams at all times with consequences for turning them off and the like.

Quite a few posters are calling for American DeBaathification with police in place of Baath Party members. And we saw what happened after DeBaathification. Getting rid of police with no replacement is a recipe for a fucktastrophe.

If we decriminalize drugs and sex work, replace "fix-it tickets" with roadside assistance, help fund social work, rehabilitation, and other community-building efforts, mostly empty the prisons and rebuild them Swedish-style, fund universal healthcare, and better fund shelters cops will be pretty much useless and America will be a better place.

[Genivaria]

I hope not alone or he's going to be shot very quickly by the armed security.

Not the point. It doesn't take any sort of skill to make the attempt. I haven't looked into the backgrounds of bank robbers.

That is the point, fools who try to rob a bank without a plan or crew normally don't get a chance to learn their lesson, that's why bank robberies are actually far rarer than Hollywood would suggest, I''d rather knock over the Valero down the road than a fucking bank, I enjoy living.

[Mirjt]

I like the way Robert Reich described it:

You either have a society based on social control, that uses policing, surveillance, punishment, incarceration, confinement, exile, torture, militarization, strict borders, shaming, ostracism, etc... OR you have a society based on social investment, that uses education, healthcare, cooperation, freedom, redemption, etc...

I have been a supporter of penal abolition for about a year and 8 or 9 months. In this framework we use and develop non-violent, non-punitive, non-carceral, community based, accountable, reconciliatory, humanizing, redemptory, restorative, and transformative approaches to prevent harm, respond to harm, and address harm (in a way that acknowledges the humanity and the needs of the victims first, and the offenders). We understand that you don't and can't prevent and respond to harm with harmful institutions like policing and surveillance; and that you don't and can't address harm with more harm from punishment, incarceration, confinement, exile, shame, ostracism, etc...

The framework of penal abolition also understands that the prison industrial complex is always used to target whoever is marginalized in a given society, regardless if that marginalized is based on race, class, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, mental illness, religion, etc... It is also used to crush dissent, just look at the red scares and lavender scares.

Penal abolition means getting rid of all prisons, not just the for-profit prisons, and that includes things like immigrant detention, civil commitment, house arrest, disability institutionalization, mental illness institutionalization, etc... Penal abolition means getting rid of the whole PIC, including policing (not just the official police, policing - https://truthout.org/video/abolish-poli ... he-police/ - https://truthout.org/articles/abolishin ... rotection/), or at the very least minimizing our use of policing.

Anti-police and anti-prison is the consistent position of anyone who cares about having a better society, or about human rights, or about marginalized people of all kinds.

I would also like to say, for those whom are Christian like myself, that it is also the Christian position. You can find all kinds of resources talking about how Jesus came to free the prisoner and rejected the ancient forms of policing. There is even a whole penal abolition organization based around abolition from a Christian perspective. https://christiansforabolition.org/

These anti-police protests have every right to continue on, they are peaceful. Any time you have too many people, it will get labeled a riot, and the overwhelming amount of violence at protests were started by undercover police or proxies for police in order to give the police the excuse to attack protestors. Even the rare cases of violence that was started by protestors has usually been violence against property, not people. While it would be preferable to not damage property, I don't mind it too much as people are being killed and tortured by the police. It is unfortunate that some small business owners have had their private property destroyed (as generally opposed to private property as I am), but it is important to remember that it has been revealed that it was usually police masquerading as protesters who targeted small business owners and marginalized residential communities, and not the overwhelming majority of protestors.

I don't buy the complaints that some people say, that blocking traffic or shutting down parts of the city or the economy is violent, because it is not violent, it is assertive but not violent, and for a protest to have any teeth it must be unignorable, that is the whole point.

It should not be controversial to say that police states and surveillance states are bad, however people are defending our "proto-police" state and are supporting efforts to turn us into a full blown police state.

[Genivaria]

Quite a few posters are calling for American DeBaathification with police in place of Baath Party members. And we saw what happened after DeBaathification. Getting rid of police with no replacement is a recipe for a fucktastrophe.

If we decriminalize drugs and sex work, replace "fix-it tickets" with roadside assistance, help fund social work, rehabilitation, and other community-building efforts, mostly empty the prisons and rebuild them Swedish-style, fund universal healthcare, and better fund shelters cops will be pretty much useless and America will be a better place.

This pretty much^. If a criminal isn't an active threat to public safety than there's no justification for imprisonment which is both expensive and unproductive.
Fines and community service should be the only punishments for the vast majority of crimes.

[Mirjt]

Quite a few posters are calling for American DeBaathification with police in place of Baath Party members. And we saw what happened after DeBaathification. Getting rid of police with no replacement is a recipe for a fucktastrophe.

If we decriminalize drugs and sex work, replace "fix-it tickets" with roadside assistance, help fund social work, rehabilitation, and other community-building efforts, mostly empty the prisons and rebuild them Swedish-style, fund universal healthcare, and better fund shelters cops will be pretty much useless and America will be a better place.

YES, YES, YES.

I though I think you missed decriminalizing immigration along with drugs and sex work too.

[Jraden]

Why is policy making so bad in America? I hear so many good ideas and they are never implemented. What’s stopping the US from changing its social programs to rehabilitation and serving the public instead of creating massive prison systems that perpetuate crime and corruption?

[Aeritai]

When you guys say decriminalize drugs are you talking about making meth, crack, LSD and other hardcore drugs legal or are you talking about other drugs?

Just need that to be clarified.