US Anti-Police Protests and Riots Thread II

[Velosia]

Well, I'm hoping the local council or whoever has jurisdiction over the statue has the sense not to put it back up.

I'd think this is pretty much a given. The debate over whether or not to remove it had been raging for years before this. I'd imagine most people will now take the view that, since it isn't very PC, it isn't worth spending public money to have it restored and put back, even if it was brought down in an unlawful act of vandalism.

However, I do hope they at least fish it out the harbour and perhaps sell it to a private collector for restoration or something. I don't care who or what it represents, it's a well-made bronze statue and it shouldn't simply be left to corrode.

[Alt-Right Death Squads]

There is some room for improvement, obviously, but it will always be easier to fix a broken system then build a new one.

RUSURE
Like, really?

Northern Ireland... HA Ha ha, mate, where talking about reforming the police force of a nation. But I guess if you did it city by city I bet you eventually could.

[Gravlen]

My point is that people hear these stories of police brutality and they make the generalisation that the whole police force is like that. They don't stop to consider the policemen who are helpful, who do work to stop racism and who are on the receiving end of violence and anger because of the reputation of the police force, often down to a few extremist acts. Have some sympathy for your average police officer who has nothing to do with brutality or murder, who just wanted to help protect YOU from crime. It's not their fault. They aren't necessarily racists or excessively brutal.

We saw the Buffalo PD in action. Two out of 59 on the ERT went to far. The remaining 57 condoned their actions, did nothing to intervene or to minimize the harm the two had caused, and quit their jobs on the team to support the two afterwards. The department as a whole tried to cover up the actions of the two by lying about what had happened.

That was your average police officer in Buffalo PD.

Why should I have sympathy for one of them?

[Cisairse]

The problem with the american Police is not that it is being a Police but that it has gone strayed away from the principles of what a proper and good police ought to be, and upon which the entire institution was originally founded.

Nine principles were set out in the "General Instructions" issued to every new police officer in the Metropolitan Police from 1829.[1][9] Although Peel discussed the spirit of some of these principles in his speeches and other communications, the historians Susan Lentz and Robert Chaires found no proof that he compiled a formal list.[10] The Home Office has suggested that the instructions were probably written, not by Peel himself, but by Charles Rowan and Richard Mayne, the joint Commissioners of the Metropolitan Police when it was founded.[1][9]

The nine principles were as follows:


To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.

To recognise always that the power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect.

To recognise always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws.

To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.

To seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humour, and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.

To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.

To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

To recognise always the need for strict adherence to police-executive functions, and to refrain from even seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary, of avenging individuals or the State, and of authoritatively judging guilt and punishing the guilty.

To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them.

The institution was founded to enforce economic slavery on the lower classes by breaking strikes. The police were a socialism-for-the-rich, rugged-individualism-for-the-poor solution to robber-barons losing economic influence to unions in the 19th century.

[Cisairse]

In actual fact, very often police fear being attacked rather than dish out the violence. They sometimes have to go around in go about in groups to protect themselves from danger. People don't respect the police as much as they should, and then start asking the police to be kinder to them. Respect goes both ways, you know.

Why do the police, who routinely murder and assault innocent civilians, deserve more respect than the people they brutalize?

"Respect is earned" is a ridiculous and dangerous assertion to make about the group of people literally tasked with upholding law and protecting civil rights.

[SangMar]

The problem with the american Police is not that it is being a Police but that it has gone strayed away from the principles of what a proper and good police ought to be, and upon which the entire institution was originally founded.

The institution was founded to enforce economic slavery on the lower classes by breaking strikes. The police were a socialism-for-the-rich, rugged-individualism-for-the-poor solution to robber-barons losing economic influence to unions in the 19th century.

Maybe in America. In the UK, where the peelian principles are a thing, the police predate socialism and even the Chartists by two decades. Instead, they were created - at first in London, to deal with crime, as the system of watchmen and parish constables - who weren’t police officers, but more jack-of-all-trades types couldn’t handle the high levels of murder and crime. They were first founded in 1829, if you’d like a date.

EDIT: A decade for the Chartists, two for the Communist Manifesto.

[The Land of the Ephyral]

You're more likely to be struck by lightning than be killed by a police officer whilst black and unarmed.

The problem they are allegedly protesting does not even exist.

[Gravlen]

By the way, an example of what could happen to a police officer who holds on to his principles is Adrian Schoolcraft:

Adrian Schoolcraft (born 1976) is a former New York City Police Department (NYPD) officer who secretly recorded police conversations from 2008 to 2009. He brought these tapes to NYPD investigators in October 2009 as evidence of corruption and wrongdoing within the department. He used the tapes as evidence that arrest quotas were leading to police abuses such as wrongful arrests, while the emphasis on fighting crime sometimes resulted in underreporting of crimes to keep the numbers down.

After voicing his concerns, Schoolcraft was reportedly harassed and reassigned to a desk job. After he left work early one day, an ESU unit illegally entered his apartment, physically abducted him and forcibly admitted him to a psychiatric facility, where he was held against his will for six days.

[Gravlen]

You're more likely to be struck by lightning than be killed by a police officer whilst black and unarmed.

The problem they are allegedly protesting does not even exist.

The police is not an unmanagable force of nature, so the comparison is irrelevant.

Furthermore, the problem goes beyond simply killing. It is among other things being stopped more often, and it's being unsafe around the police.

Regardless, as the protests have shown, the police have a problem with violence. Even if there hadn't been a reason for protesting before (and there was), it is clear that the actions shown over the last week is grounds enough for protests in itself.

[Fartsniffage]

Well, I'm hoping the local council or whoever has jurisdiction over the statue has the sense not to put it back up.

I'd think this is pretty much a given. The debate over whether or not to remove it had been raging for years before this. I'd imagine most people will now take the view that, since it isn't very PC, it isn't worth spending public money to have it restored and put back, even if it was brought down in an unlawful act of vandalism.

However, I do hope they at least fish it out the harbour and perhaps sell it to a private collector for restoration or something. I don't care who or what it represents, it's a well-made bronze statue and it shouldn't simply be left to corrode.

Pretty sure someone will fish it out and weigh it in. Bronze is worth quite a lot per kilo.

[Gravlen]

Research Says Violent Cops Cause Violent Protests

[...] when cops show up in military gear and get aggressive, they actually make protest violence worse!

That’s one of the findings in “New Directions in Protest Policing,” a 2015 paper that reviews decades upon decades of police history and the conclusions of multiple separate commissions. Police that dress like they’re going to war, who try to control First Amendment expression rather than facilitate it, and who act in arbitrary ways can inflame violence and jeopardize their own safety and that of the public.

[SangMar]

I'd think this is pretty much a given. The debate over whether or not to remove it had been raging for years before this. I'd imagine most people will now take the view that, since it isn't very PC, it isn't worth spending public money to have it restored and put back, even if it was brought down in an unlawful act of vandalism.

However, I do hope they at least fish it out the harbour and perhaps sell it to a private collector for restoration or something. I don't care who or what it represents, it's a well-made bronze statue and it shouldn't simply be left to corrode.

Pretty sure someone will fish it out and weigh it in. Bronze is worth quite a lot per kilo.

I can’t wait for the argument around the Churchill statue.

-Helped put an end to the worst fascists in human history - a group who had committed mass genocide against Jews, Slavs, Homosexuals, Romani, disabled people, Chinese, Filipinos, Ethiopians and others.

VS

-Made a famine (Bengal) which was already going to be bad, even worse, by shipping food from India to Britain. Also considered Indians and non-whites to be far lesser.

[SangMar]

Research Says Violent Cops Cause Violent Protests

[...] when cops show up in military gear and get aggressive, they actually make protest violence worse!

That’s one of the findings in “New Directions in Protest Policing,” a 2015 paper that reviews decades upon decades of police history and the conclusions of multiple separate commissions. Police that dress like they’re going to war, who try to control First Amendment expression rather than facilitate it, and who act in arbitrary ways can inflame violence and jeopardize their own safety and that of the public.

Bang. Yes. Top of the class.

Except London, but we’ll brush over that.

[The New California Republic]

I'd think this is pretty much a given. The debate over whether or not to remove it had been raging for years before this. I'd imagine most people will now take the view that, since it isn't very PC, it isn't worth spending public money to have it restored and put back, even if it was brought down in an unlawful act of vandalism.

However, I do hope they at least fish it out the harbour and perhaps sell it to a private collector for restoration or something. I don't care who or what it represents, it's a well-made bronze statue and it shouldn't simply be left to corrode.

Pretty sure someone will fish it out and weigh it in. Bronze is worth quite a lot per kilo.

Just need someone with scuba gear to attach the ropes. Free slaver statue!

[Caracasus]

You're more likely to be struck by lightning than be killed by a police officer whilst black and unarmed.

The problem they are allegedly protesting does not even exist.

The police is not an unmanagable force of nature, so the comparison is irrelevant.

Furthermore, the problem goes beyond simply killing. It is among other things being stopped more often, and it's being unsafe around the police.

Regardless, as the protests have shown, the police have a problem with violence. Even if there hadn't been a reason for protesting before (and there was), it is clear that the actions shown over the last week is grounds enough for protests in itself.

It's also not even true. The US averages at 50 lightning strikes per year that lead in death with a vague 'hundreds' more injured, last year the US had 1004 police shootings. On average between 1000 and 1300 per year apparently.

As I have said stats are easily manipulated but this is just a flat out lie.

[La Xinga]

Why is looting justified?

[Cisairse]

Why is looting justified?

Bad question.

[Caracasus]

Why is looting justified?

Why are people asking others to justify the small minority of looters and not the massive mountain of decades worth of police brutality?

[South Odreria 2]

Why is looting justified?

Ask congress.

[Fartsniffage]

Why is looting justified?

You should ask a few CEOs that.

[Gravlen]

Why is looting justified?

Surely, like the White House says, the looters are just "a few bad apples that are giving law enforcement protesters a terrible name”.

[Australian rePublic]

If these protests cause another lockdown, I don't thibk it'll be enforceable. At least here in Australia. Too many people will be pissed that the BLM protestors caused a huge spike in cases and conduct their own protests. I hope whoever had decided that NSW should legalise protests had taken that into account

[Solomons Land]

Why is looting justified?

Why are people asking others to justify the small minority of looters and not the massive mountain of decades worth of police brutality?

We are appalled both by police brutality and the clear negligence of protesting during a plague.

[San Lumen]

Why are people asking others to justify the small minority of looters and not the massive mountain of decades worth of police brutality?

We are appalled both by police brutality and the clear negligence of protesting during a plague.

A pandemic does not remove the right to protest and quite frankly I find it a bit hypocritical our leaders allow protests but won' allow other large events or restrict capacity in business or keep their doors closed

[The Black Forrest]

If only we had Banksy.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/07/world/ba ... index.html