NationStates

Purple Rats wrote:I wanna discuss the police issue in general matter, not only U.S based. I know in lot of places the police is not as extreme as in some other areas, but still I have been thinking about the alternatives. There are still terrible people who would abuse their freedom. So which could be alternatives if there would be no police in a way we have now?

Probably far-right Islamic fundamentalists with machetes and sickles, maybe hammers too (heh). Way worse than our current police.

A m e n r i a wrote:

Purple Rats wrote:I wanna discuss the police issue in general matter, not only U.S based. I know in lot of places the police is not as extreme as in some other areas, but still I have been thinking about the alternatives. There are still terrible people who would abuse their freedom. So which could be alternatives if there would be no police in a way we have now?

Probably far-right Islamic fundamentalists with machetes and sickles, maybe hammers too (heh). Way worse than our current police.

What about the Army?

Ideal Britain wrote:

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

But right now we have cops attacking peaceful protesters, killing unarmed black people and, shooting people on there porch for being on there porch.

And yet democrats think cops should have a monopoly on guns.
Gun rights are African-American rights.

I didn't know you speak for every single democrat.

Also whatever happened to the 2016 Republican talking points of "blue lives matter"?

Are you just going to ditch that now that it is inconvenient to support it? Or where you a repub that was for Black Lives Matter from the start?

We know what happens from centuries in the past when you don't have a police force or a well-equipped authoritative figure to keep people in check...People either do nothing or take justice into their own hands which often means extremely high rates of injustice. You know how people handle crimes in Game Of Thrones? Think that but sometimes even worse.

Lanoraie II wrote:We know what happens from centuries in the past when you don't have a police force or a well-equipped authoritative figure to keep people in check...People either do nothing or take justice into their own hands which often means extremely high rates of injustice. You know how people handle crimes in Game Of Thrones? Think that but sometimes even worse.

We'd revert back to outlawry and bounty hunters. Those are the kind of things that happen when the government doesn't have a police force. Not a pretty world.

Don't do this.

Preston won't leave you alone for 2 minutes if you do.

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

Saint Nicholas and the Hussars wrote:2 seconds later a sociopath is born and grows up to be a paramilitary leader that goes on a genocide. 4 seconds later somebody shoots somebody for being annoying. 6 seconds later somebody makes a car bomb and drives into your house.

>”just ban objects lol”

But right now we have cops attacking peaceful protesters, killing unarmed black people and, shooting people on there porch for being on there porch.

Andrew Jackson = all U.S president bad, right?
Person, not people, lad. And when too many persons, then there is something to be done about their discipline. From your posts here, you seem to be against over generalization, how come you do the same for cops?

Saint Nicholas and the Hussars wrote:

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

But right now we have cops attacking peaceful protesters, killing unarmed black people and, shooting people on there porch for being on there porch.

Andrew Jackson = all U.S president bad, right?
Person, not people, lad. And when too many persons, then there is something to be done about their discipline. From your posts here, you seem to be against over generalization, how come you do the same for cops?

I do. If you like digging in my post history you must of found this one

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

SangMar wrote:
Yeah. I’m seeing a lot of posts online from some pretty pissed off American cops.

As one put it, it’s like all the idiots who shouldn’t have a badge decided to pick now to be fucking retarded.

As they should be. All the actually good cops who don't kill unarmed black people and don't shoot people on there porch should be mad at the morons who are doing such evil things.

And no, it was cops plural who shot people on there porch.

27 people were killed in Chicago this weekend - police didn't even try to do anything lol

Lanoraie II wrote:We know what happens from centuries in the past when you don't have a police force or a well-equipped authoritative figure to keep people in check...People either do nothing or take justice into their own hands which often means extremely high rates of injustice. You know how people handle crimes in Game Of Thrones? Think that but sometimes even worse.

And offen less bad.
Monetary compensation was an alternative to violence in many tribal cultures.

The military actually does a better job of enforcing order in a fair and consistant manner than the police. The same goes for most federal government agencies when compared to state/local ones.

Saiwania wrote:The military actually does a better job of enforcing order in a fair and consistant manner than the police. The same goes for most federal government agencies when compared to state/local ones.

but as stated in the Minneapolis riot thread the US military cannot be deployed on US soil for peace keeping duties besides even if they were the US military doesn't have enough personnel to patrol the entire US on police duties. That's why we have police forces and sheriff's and state troopers

Gig em Aggies wrote:

Saiwania wrote:The military actually does a better job of enforcing order in a fair and consistant manner than the police. The same goes for most federal government agencies when compared to state/local ones.

but as stated in the Minneapolis riot thread the US military cannot be deployed on US soil for peace keeping duties

The military can be deployed to the border however.

Purple Rats wrote:I wanna discuss the police issue in general matter, not only U.S based. I know in lot of places the police is not as extreme as in some other areas, but still I have been thinking about the alternatives. There are still terrible people who would abuse their freedom. So which could be alternatives if there would be no police in a way we have now?

The alternatives would be the military or private guards/mercenaries. That is, what we had in Europe in the Middle Ages.
Been there, done that, no more please.

Saiwania wrote:The military actually does a better job of enforcing order in a fair and consistant manner than the police. The same goes for most federal government agencies when compared to state/local ones.

Maybe in your country. We're talking "world without police".
in my country, the Carabinieri and the Polizia di Stato are much better at enforcing the law than the Folgore Brigade (paratroopers) or the Ariete Brigade (armoured). That's because they're trained to do VERY different things.

Bear Stearns wrote:

Gig em Aggies wrote:

but as stated in the Minneapolis riot thread the US military cannot be deployed on US soil for peace keeping duties

The military can be deployed to the border however.

yes but they cant do anything but logistics supporting CBP they couldn't apprehend any border crossers at all or duty any other policing operations.

Brunswick-upon-Raritan wrote:

The Reformed American Republic wrote:Psychologists will usually tell you that psychopaths are not rehabilitatable. Look, I'm all for rehabilitation, and I think we should take elements from Norway's model, but abolishing prisons altogether is not a good idea. Massive reform required, and we need to go further than what the Democrats propose, but not abolition. Unlike nonpsychopathic criminals, true Ted Bundy like psychopaths are a lost cause.

I don't think that's an up to date understanding of psychopathy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psycho ... nals%3famp


According to this they can be managed in prison, but not cured. I think this guy is qualified to comment on this.

Risottia wrote:

Purple Rats wrote:I wanna discuss the police issue in general matter, not only U.S based. I know in lot of places the police is not as extreme as in some other areas, but still I have been thinking about the alternatives. There are still terrible people who would abuse their freedom. So which could be alternatives if there would be no police in a way we have now?

The alternatives would be the military or private guards/mercenaries. That is, what we had in Europe in the Middle Ages.
Been there, done that, no more please.

The French Gendamerie and Italian Carabinieri seem to work okay as part of the Defence Forces. As do those of the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain and most civilized countriers around the world.
Really I think the Police should be considered the branch of the military and trained as peacekeepers with an emphasis on protection of the vulnerable, human rights and humanitarian assistance, community mentoring, communication and negotiation skills, crisis management and de-escalation, first aid and personal safety.

Bear Stearns wrote:27 people were killed in Chicago this weekend - police didn't even try to do anything lol

I'm guessing too busy shooting people for being on there property.

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

Ideal Britain wrote:And yet democrats think cops should have a monopoly on guns.
Gun rights are African-American rights.

I didn't know you speak for every single democrat.

Also whatever happened to the 2016 Republican talking points of "blue lives matter"?

Are you just going to ditch that now that it is inconvenient to support it? Or where you a repub that was for Black Lives Matter from the start?

1. I would be a reluctant Democrat if I was American
2. I support both BLM and the Second Amendment or Huey P.Newton.
3. I don't like hypocrisy. Democrats are more outspoken about black rights so they should support black people who pass appropriate background checks (roughly five out of 6) defending themselves.

Risottia wrote:

Saiwania wrote:The military actually does a better job of enforcing order in a fair and consistant manner than the police. The same goes for most federal government agencies when compared to state/local ones.

Maybe in your country. We're talking "world without police".
in my country, the Carabinieri and the Polizia di Stato are much better at enforcing the law than the Folgore Brigade (paratroopers) or the Ariete Brigade (armoured). That's because they're trained to do VERY different things.

The Carabinieri ARE MILITARY! Military police are police.

The difference is the military are subject to much stricter discipline. They cannot unionize, (neither can federal police though) and are subject to military justice.

Maybe police unions need to be rethought, unfortunately unions in the US (this is a big problem with the teachers unions as well) do nothing to discipline their own members for wrongdoing.
Something that needs to change. Unions do need to stand up for their members BUT to do this properly they need to expel bad members.

Police services are necessary, but it is how you train them.

I think the UK (with the exception of Northern Ireland) is the only country in the world that do not arm their police officers with fire arms.

Militarising the police in the US is a major issue that needs to be addressed.

We obviously need police, but better oversight and training. Also maybe police should go back to carrying revolvers on ordinary duties over high capacity semi automatics (because a gun with fewer, slower but more powerful rounds should encourage more careful firearm use.

We also need independent oversight commissions to adjusted complaints and discipline offenders, police living in their communities more, smaller neighborhood based police stations over large centralized ones.

Also I do think we need an alternative, social services and public health officers who are not police, riding along with police. Ideally have each police pair on regular patrols assigned an unarmed public health/social services officer who would not be a police officer. They would deal with things like people calling about mental health issues, and disputes that can be handled peacefully, the police officers standing back stepping in only if the situation becomes uncontrollable.

They would provide oversight as well as limiting police involvement in non criminal matters.

Novus America wrote:We obviously need police, but better oversight and training. Also maybe police should go back to carrying revolvers on ordinary duties over high capacity semi automatics (because a gun with fewer, slower but more powerful rounds should encourage more careful firearm use.

We also need independent oversight commissions to adjusted complaints and discipline offenders, police living in their communities more, smaller neighborhood based police stations over large centralized ones.

Also I do think we need an alternative, social services and public health officers who are not police, riding along with police. Ideally have each police pair on regular patrols assigned an unarmed public health/social services officer who would not be a police officer. They would deal with things like people calling about mental health issues, and disputes that can be handled peacefully, the police officers standing back stepping in only if the situation becomes uncontrollable.

They would provide oversight as well as limiting police involvement in non criminal matters.

A better structure for the US police services would also be a good idea. There are 2 many overlapping duties or lack thereof from different police forces of the US.

Celritannia wrote:Police services are necessary, but it is how you train them.

I think the UK (with the exception of Northern Ireland) is the only country in the world that do not arm their police officers with fire arms.

Militarising the police in the US is a major issue that needs to be addressed.

I do not like the term “militarizing”. The issue is more “Ramboizing”.
First of all the existence of heavily armed police units (which the UK does have) to be deployed in emergencies is a good thing. But we should not overuse them. And the military are subject the strict discipline.

A SWAT team with an APC is fine, IF it is used for things like terror attacks, mass shootings and organized crime groups and not for ordinary patrols and minor disputes and arrests.

Also unarmed police in the US are generally a bad idea because we are a heavily armed society.
But see my proposals, assigning unarmed social services workers/public health officers to work along side police, the police acting more as body guards for them, and maybe also having ordinary police carry revolvers over high capacity semiautomatics (although they would have a AR-15/Mini 14 type weapons in their trunk, but not carry it outside special circumstances) would help.

But it should be noted many of the recent issues in France and the US involved people killed not with weapons, but via chokeholds of some sort. Weapons are not the issue alone.
That seems to be a training and discipline issue, more than a weapons issue. Hand to hand combative techniques should be used far more sparingly.

We need better training to avoid such things, and independent commissions to investigate complaints and discipline those who violate rules regarding use of force.