World without police?

[Tekania]

Police is simply an extension of society as a whole. As long as you have one person who wants to rob/kill/hurt others then you will need a system of detention/arrest/enforcement which will be conducted by a person bearing some responsibility to that body. Irrespective what you want to call that body they are "government" and irrespective of what you want to call the enforcement person(s) they are "police". The only way to eliminate police is to eliminate soceity and they only way to eliminate society is to eliminate the people. So a world without police is a world without the human race.

[Novus America]

We obviously need police, but better oversight and training. Also maybe police should go back to carrying revolvers on ordinary duties over high capacity semi automatics (because a gun with fewer, slower but more powerful rounds should encourage more careful firearm use.

We also need independent oversight commissions to adjusted complaints and discipline offenders, police living in their communities more, smaller neighborhood based police stations over large centralized ones.

Also I do think we need an alternative, social services and public health officers who are not police, riding along with police. Ideally have each police pair on regular patrols assigned an unarmed public health/social services officer who would not be a police officer. They would deal with things like people calling about mental health issues, and disputes that can be handled peacefully, the police officers standing back stepping in only if the situation becomes uncontrollable.

They would provide oversight as well as limiting police involvement in non criminal matters.

A better structure for the US police services would also be a good idea. There are 2 many overlapping duties or lack thereof from different police forces of the US.

Although I do think a better differentiation of duties so that there is more specialization and less redundancy is a good thing, actually the larger urban police departments seem to have more issues than the smaller rural ones. Having the police locally controlled, community based is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Celritannia]

A better structure for the US police services would also be a good idea. There are 2 many overlapping duties or lack thereof from different police forces of the US.

Although I do think a better differentiation of duties so that there is more specialization and less redundancy is a good thing, actually the larger urban police departments seem to have more issues than the smaller rural ones. Having the police locally controlled, community based is not necessarily a bad thing.

Agreed, along with setting up some kind of Law Enforcement Chief's Council for each State, much like the National Police Chiefs Council of the UK.

[Novus America]

Although I do think a better differentiation of duties so that there is more specialization and less redundancy is a good thing, actually the larger urban police departments seem to have more issues than the smaller rural ones. Having the police locally controlled, community based is not necessarily a bad thing.

Agreed, along with setting up some kind of Law Enforcement Chief's Council for each State, much like the National Police Chiefs Council of the UK.

I do agree each state having a Independent Office for Police Conduct and NPCC type agencies would be good, those both seem to be good ideas.

Actually the federal police agencies (although redundancy is an issue) tend to have less issues, largely because they have usually have very specialized duties and actually very limited interaction with most of the public (you are unlikely to interact with one because they do not deal with minor crimes or disputes outside a few places like military bases).

[Bear Stearns]

27 people were killed in Chicago this weekend - police didn't even try to do anything lol

I'm guessing too busy shooting people for being on there property.

No, these were mostly premeditated murders, often carried out in conjunction with another crime (such as armed robbery). Many were gang related, some were not.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I didn't know you speak for every single democrat.

Also whatever happened to the 2016 Republican talking points of "blue lives matter"?

Are you just going to ditch that now that it is inconvenient to support it? Or where you a repub that was for Black Lives Matter from the start?

1. I would be a reluctant Democrat if I was American
2. I support both BLM and the Second Amendment or Huey P.Newton.
3. I don't like hypocrisy. Democrats are more outspoken about black rights so they should support black people who pass appropriate background checks (roughly five out of 6) defending themselves.

1. Ok

2. Ok.

3.Hey look if someone of any race wants a gun to defend them selves and they pass a background check more power to them.

[Diopolis]

Private vengeance could replace the police as a general social order keeping tool.
This does not mean we should desire it.

[Tornado Queendom]

Private Security Corpoations.

Basically, a Real-life APA.

[Diarcesia]

No.

Can we just have better police? The job attracts people who are OK with violence, also people who want petty power over others. Offering higher wages would give more to choose from, but still how to identify those bad motives in a recruit determined to get into the force?

How about a selection process from the general population, as is done to select juries? The pay would have to be outstanding (to compensate for possible lost wages during their stint), they'd serve a maximum of five years (though possibly longer if they're promoted above Sergeant), and if they are selected by lottery but refuse to serve there would be a punishment.

Or we could just wait for robots to take over the job. And don't give me that pop culture nonsense, it's nothing more than the modern version of Frankenstein. Robots are neither good nor evil, it's why they'll be perfect for the frontline work. Discretion could still be exercised by a human, once the robots have incapacitated the suspect and brought them to the police station.

Sortition ftw. Anyways, I extend this as all positions that exercise some form of power should have their holders determined by sortitions.

[American Pere Housh]

A world without police would be a world filled with rampant crime.

[Asle Leopolka]

A world without police would be a world filled with rampant crime.

And a police force would inevitably be formed as a result. Police and law enforcement has been around for thousands of years and will always be necessary as long as communities exist.

[Diopolis]

A world without police would be a world filled with rampant crime.

Depends on what you mean by rampant crime.
After all, the police fill two functions- protecting citizens from miscreants, and replacing private vengeance with the arm of the state. If we abolished the police cold turkey, most likely the second function would be replaced with private vengeance as a form of deterrent, a world where every liquor store has a pillar covered with thief hands out front.
The first function is one that citizens would have to take care of themselves.

[Technoscience Leftwing]

On the right political flank, libertarians are proposing to replace the police with private hired security agencies. On the left flank, the anarchists and Lenin (in the book "The State and the Revolution"), proposed a system of militias, formed on the basis of production collectives, residential quarters or party organizations. Which would be supplemented by the activity of the population on the streets: the population separates the fighters, intervenes when trying to offend the weak by the strong, and maintain order on their own. In the primitive tribes there was no police and state, and when trying to violate the customs of the tribe, the offender was killed or expelled. The socialists also proposed eliminating the social roots of crime by giving the poor a welfare or clothing and food rations in order to save them from the need to steal and rob for survival.

[Aeritai]

Without police we would have Vilgilantes running around killing people who act "suspicious." While the police have their problems all we need to do is reform and retrain police officers

[The Reformed American Republic]

A world without police would be a world filled with rampant crime.

Depends on what you mean by rampant crime.
After all, the police fill two functions- protecting citizens from miscreants, and replacing private vengeance with the arm of the state. If we abolished the police cold turkey, most likely the second function would be replaced with private vengeance as a form of deterrent, a world where every liquor store has a pillar covered with thief hands out front.
The first function is one that citizens would have to take care of themselves.

Racist groups like the clan might also try to enforce their vision of order as well.

[Diopolis]

Depends on what you mean by rampant crime.
After all, the police fill two functions- protecting citizens from miscreants, and replacing private vengeance with the arm of the state. If we abolished the police cold turkey, most likely the second function would be replaced with private vengeance as a form of deterrent, a world where every liquor store has a pillar covered with thief hands out front.
The first function is one that citizens would have to take care of themselves.

Racist groups like the clan might also try to enforce their vision of order as well.

Possible, but there's no reason to assume all vigilante groups would be based on racism. Expect a decent in-mixing of religious groups, corporate interests, family/clan based groups, former gangs, etc.
Certainly there would be lynchings. But abolishing the police will probably not bring back segregation.

[The Two Jerseys]

We obviously need police, but better oversight and training. Also maybe police should go back to carrying revolvers on ordinary duties over high capacity semi automatics (because a gun with fewer, slower but more powerful rounds should encourage more careful firearm use.

Problem there is that sometimes an officer's life depends on being able to rapidly dump 15 rounds into someone.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Racist groups like the clan might also try to enforce their vision of order as well.

Possible, but there's no reason to assume all vigilante groups would be based on racism. Expect a decent in-mixing of religious groups, corporate interests, family/clan based groups, former gangs, etc.
Certainly there would be lynchings. But abolishing the police will probably not bring back segregation.

I wasn't implying that, rather, lack of police would give license to groups of people who are dangerous to do what they want, and enemies of the leftists who support this would be included in that.

[Diopolis]

Possible, but there's no reason to assume all vigilante groups would be based on racism. Expect a decent in-mixing of religious groups, corporate interests, family/clan based groups, former gangs, etc.
Certainly there would be lynchings. But abolishing the police will probably not bring back segregation.

I wasn't implying that, rather, lack of police would give license to groups of people who are dangerous to do what they want, and enemies of the leftists who support this would be included in that.

Oh, yeah, police presence is definitely protective for extreme leftists in the US, for the simple reason that the far right, unlike them, is actually well organized enough to get what it wants if it wants it bad enough.
This is likely an inherent feature of our society/political spectrum and not a feature contingent on the far left needing some time to get organized or being repressed, because membership is far right groups is largely socialized through eg militias, churches, hunting clubs, certain workplaces, which imposes a measure of organization as an inherent factor. This does not appear to be the same for the extreme left(which in some countries achieves the same feat through labor unions, but not in the US- labor unions lean democrat, but not particularly left wing).

[Novus America]

We obviously need police, but better oversight and training. Also maybe police should go back to carrying revolvers on ordinary duties over high capacity semi automatics (because a gun with fewer, slower but more powerful rounds should encourage more careful firearm use.

Problem there is that sometimes an officer's life depends on being able to rapidly dump 15 rounds into someone.

Well only a few hits with a 357 should stop most targets. Spray and pray type shooting does not encourage accuracy or discipline. And greatly increases the risk of collateral damage.
The revolver will require more discipline and accuracy to make up for the fewer rounds.

As I mentioned this would only apply to police on regular patrol duties, and they would have an AR-15/Mini 14 type gun in the trunk of their car for emergencies.
Obviously SWAT and police doing organized crime raids would be more heavily armed.

Sure there is a balance to be struck, but right now the urban warrior attitude is not working.

Also only having a revolver for regular carry was common practice up through the 80s.
A few departments still do this.

[Joohan]

So long as a state exists, there will be some kind of martial force which executes stately obligations.

A lot of people decry the death of the community cop and the militarization of the police in recent years - but it was a necessary development. The 1960's brought about mass protests which had seldom been seen before ( outside of full blown revolutions ), the 70's brought on a new wave of international and domestic terrorism, the 80's saw the rise of the drug cartels, and so on. It's gotten to be more dangerous to be a cop of the decades, and their arsenal has reflected that - especially in terms of riot control ( rubber bullets, bean bags, pepper spray, and all other manner of non-lethal weapons are vastly superior to billy clubs and actual Kent State firing squads ).

Civil police, as they are currently conceived ( basically ) are the best law enforcement currently available to us. Militia's would devolve into sectarian violence and corruption, public shaming is a ridiculously stupid concept, PMC's would become essentially mafia style organizations, and the military would be much more overtly brutal in their enforcement.

I'm open to alternatives, I just cannot ( on my own ) conceive of a superior model.

[Kanadorika]

It would be like Red Dead Redemption where you sneeze at somebody, and then get chased out of the county by bounty hunters trying to earn the $5 you have on your head.

[The Marlborough]

It's pretty much impossible in any complex society. Since the dawn of civilization have always been some sort of law enforcement in place, be it nightwatchmen, prefects, using slaves as law enforcement, privately hired investigators, so on so forth. What is needed is law enforcement based within and coming from communities. A lot of cops do not live or come from the cities they work in and many police departments still try to keep community policing to a minimum, which cultivates mistrust within the communities. The institution is rotten and we have to start holding more and more LEO to account for their misdeeds which is insanely hard to do as things stand.

[Celritannia]

It would be like Red Dead Redemption where you sneeze at somebody, and then get chased out of the county by bounty hunters trying to earn the $5 you have on your head.

Prepare for real life DnD groups gathering together to stop the case of the missing handbag.

[Neanderthaland]

We could just build police robots.

You Have 20 Seconds To Comply.