America riots after Police kill unarmed Black Man

[SangMar]

*like Sweden
Sure lets do it!

Uh maybe not like Sweden.

Going to wait for context on this one.

[Greed and Death]

Uh maybe not like Sweden.

Going to wait for context on this one.

The Swedes really do not like the Sami.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Within a minute or so yeah, unless it gets in your eyes. Then you'd know right away.

That's why I say the right approach would be to arrest the liquid thrower right away. Don't shoot rubber bullets at them, that's certain to make them retreat into the crowd. The cop nearest (who got the most liquid on them) should have grabbed that person by their clothes and pulled.

There's a barrier of bicycles which I guess is supposed to keep the crowd back. A mistake in my opinion, since they also keep the cops back and make affecting any arrests difficult.

Hurting people (or injuring them) with rubber bullets would only be justified in self defense or defense of others. I do after all agree that the risk of the liquid being something more toxic than water was low, it doesn't justify the violent act of "defense". But that low level of risk IS enough for probable cause to arrest. The person MAY be in the act of committing a crime, and that would be discovered after arresting them.

Cops arresting someone may be committing a crime.

Obviously, since that's what started the whole shitshow. But a minor crime was committed in this case, there was also sufficient reason to believe a more serious crime was being committed. I think it's enough for an arrest.

[Vassenor]

*National oversight board - not the current system which has a patchwork of civilian review boards and such.
*60 police forces, not 17,500.
*No MRAPs, camouflaged clothing or shit like that - sure, fully automatic weapons are great though - no one wants another North Hollywood shootout.
*Better combatives training.
*An overhaul in training nationally - maybe something like in Sweden or some German states.
*Reprioritising police unions - with a focus on defending their cops in court and other union benefits - end whatever political clout they have.
*No off duty or on duty political displays - cops need to remain impartial (at least, publicly).
*Section Housing - cheap, subsidised housing in the community for cops, so they can get to know them.

Done.

*like Sweden
Sure lets do it!

I'm confused. Are you calling that a good or bad idea?

[Dominioan]

*like Sweden
Sure lets do it!

I'm confused. Are you calling that a good or bad idea?

Its not perfect, but its better. Somewhat.

[SangMar]

Going to wait for context on this one.

The Swedes really do not like the Sami.

I don’t think many of them are Sami. Sweden has a significant Somali and Arab community.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SjuttonQ/status/1268251026693459968

This shows the same video from another angle. Is it the most aggressive thing ever from the protesters? No. But if you look, the cops aren’t cracking peaceful protesters heads in like in America. They’re all left alone - in this clip anyway, we don’t have any idea about the protests in the rest of Stockholm - though, I doubt they’re much worse.

[Ifreann]

Cops arresting someone may be committing a crime.

Obviously, since that's what started the whole shitshow. But a minor crime was committed in this case, there was also sufficient reason to believe a more serious crime was being committed. I think it's enough for an arrest.

Should protesters equally be allowed to arrest the cops?

[Salandriagado]

Cops or peaceful protesters, they should all be complying with social distancing.

Why's that?

You know when you claim to be "pro-freedom" rather than just wanting people to die? This shit is why nobody believes you.

[SangMar]

*like Sweden
Sure lets do it!

I'm confused. Are you calling that a good or bad idea?

Not Dominioan, It’s a good idea in my book though. If the UK were more like Sweden in some respects, that’d be great.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Obviously, since that's what started the whole shitshow. But a minor crime was committed in this case, there was also sufficient reason to believe a more serious crime was being committed. I think it's enough for an arrest.

Should protesters equally be allowed to arrest the cops?

OK I'll humor you. Yes.

[Ifreann]

Should protesters equally be allowed to arrest the cops?

OK I'll humor you. Yes.

Now that sounds fun. Everyone trying to arrest each other.

[SangMar]

OK I'll humor you. Yes.

Now that sounds fun. Everyone trying to arrest each other.

This but unironically.

[Ifreann]

Now that sounds fun. Everyone trying to arrest each other.

This but unironically.

I wasn't being ironic.

[SangMar]

This but unironically.

I wasn't being ironic.

E X C E L L E N T

[The Chuck]

This but unironically.

I wasn't being ironic.

Come to Missouri, try your luck in court with a citizens arrest... this is already on the books in our statutes...

2005 Missouri Revised Statutes - § 544.180. — Arrest.

"(1973) A private citizen may make an arrest without a warrant on a showing of commission of a felony and reasonable grounds to suspect the arrested party. State v. Fritz (Mo.), 490 S.W.2d 46."

[Dresderstan]

I wasn't being ironic.

Come to Missouri, try your luck in court with a citizens arrest... this is already on the books in our statutes...

2005 Missouri Revised Statutes - § 544.180. — Arrest.

"(1973) A private citizen may make an arrest without a warrant on a showing of commission of a felony and reasonable grounds to suspect the arrested party. State v. Fritz (Mo.), 490 S.W.2d 46."

So basically vigilantism.

[The Chuck]

Come to Missouri, try your luck in court with a citizens arrest... this is already on the books in our statutes...

2005 Missouri Revised Statutes - § 544.180. — Arrest.

"(1973) A private citizen may make an arrest without a warrant on a showing of commission of a felony and reasonable grounds to suspect the arrested party. State v. Fritz (Mo.), 490 S.W.2d 46."

So basically vigilantism.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm just stating that this happened and that maybe you could push your luck but who knows.

[SangMar]

Come to Missouri, try your luck in court with a citizens arrest... this is already on the books in our statutes...

2005 Missouri Revised Statutes - § 544.180. — Arrest.

"(1973) A private citizen may make an arrest without a warrant on a showing of commission of a felony and reasonable grounds to suspect the arrested party. State v. Fritz (Mo.), 490 S.W.2d 46."

So basically vigilantism.

Lel. Britain’s not a vigilante state after 3 decades with citizen’s arrests on the books. So nope.

[Ifreann]

Come to Missouri, try your luck in court with a citizens arrest... this is already on the books in our statutes...

2005 Missouri Revised Statutes - § 544.180. — Arrest.

"(1973) A private citizen may make an arrest without a warrant on a showing of commission of a felony and reasonable grounds to suspect the arrested party. State v. Fritz (Mo.), 490 S.W.2d 46."

So basically vigilantism.

Under the Peelian principles of policing, which you know are good because of the alliteration, the police are not a special class under the law, they do not have powers that other civilians lack, but rather they are civilians that have chosen to take up as a profession the duty to uphold the law and protect their community that we all share.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Why's that?

You know when you claim to be "pro-freedom" rather than just wanting people to die? This shit is why nobody believes you.

Speaking of, was browsing kym and saw this ""lovely"" straw man meme.

I really find this funny because I was from the moment the protests that later escalated to riots, I said that much like the Trump supporters protesting early on this would cause COVID-19 to spike again.

So yeah the above meme is trash.

we got some better memes from them here tho.

Semi unrelated but fin be out here doing great peaceful protesting

[SangMar]

So basically vigilantism.

Under the Peelian principles of policing, which you know are good because of the alliteration, the police are not a special class under the law, they do not have powers that other civilians lack, but rather they are civilians that have chosen to take up as a profession the duty to uphold the law and protect their community that we all share.

Not always though. British police - since I don’t believe the Peelian principles apply anywhere else, haven’t always done this. (Well, they’re trying, but all I’m saying is, BLM wouldn’t resonate as much in the UK if the police hadn’t treated minorities and working class people like crap for much of the 20th century.)

[Nobel Hobos 2]

OK I'll humor you. Yes.

Now that sounds fun. Everyone trying to arrest each other.

More interestingly, if a cop (on duty) sprayed a civilian with "water" I wouldn't find grounds for arrest.

It's not that I trust cops to use water when it seems to be water, more than civilians. It's because the cop has a badge and can be ID'd through their commander, so they can be prosecuted if the "water" turned out to be something dangerous. It's not necessary to arrest them to ID them, so there's not enough reason for an arrest.

Essential to this line of reasoning is that assaulting someone with a sprinkle of (somehow verified) plain water is not itself a sufficiently serious crime to warrant arrest and charge, so unless there's suspicion of something else or property is damaged by the water, it wouldn't be enough for an arrest either. Arrest without charge is sometimes justified: for probable cause or to remove a person from a situation (say blocking traffic) or perhaps to allow them to talk freely without other civilian witnesses. In this case it would be "probable cause for a search" and it might be only a few minutes before the cop who got sprinkled is reassured that they haven't been poisoned or maimed. The "search" being their investigation of the effects of the liquid.

[SangMar]

You know when you claim to be "pro-freedom" rather than just wanting people to die? This shit is why nobody believes you.

Speaking of, was browsing kym and saw this ""lovely"" straw man meme.

I really find this funny because I was from the moment the protests that later escalated to riots, I said that much like the Trump supporters protesting early on this would cause COVID-19 to spike again.

So yeah the above meme is trash.

we got some better memes from them here tho.

Semi unrelated but fin be out here doing great peaceful protesting

My only criticism of John Boyega’s speech is invoking Mark Duggan - other than that, that’s what protests should be. Hat’s off to the majority of people in London, and all? the people in Liverpool, Cardiff and Manchester for peacefully protesting.

I have to say, protesters really should be mentioning this guy instead.

[New Bremerton]

After the Army already showed sympathies with protests, Mattis now stepped out of the shadows:

James Mattis, the esteemed Marine general who resigned as secretary of defense in December 2018 to protest Donald Trump’s Syria policy, has, ever since, kept studiously silent about Trump’s performance as president. But he has now broken his silence, writing an extraordinary broadside in which he denounces the president for dividing the nation, and accuses him of ordering the U.S. military to violate the constitutional rights of American citizens.

“I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled,” Mattis writes. “The words ‘Equal Justice Under Law’ are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.” He goes on, “We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution.”

Mike Mullen: I cannot remain silent

In his j’accuse, Mattis excoriates the president for setting Americans against one another.

“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”

He goes on to contrast the American ethos of unity with Nazi ideology. “Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that ‘The Nazi slogan for destroying us … was “Divide and Conquer.” Our American answer is “In Union there is Strength.”’ We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.”

Mattis’s dissatisfaction with Trump was no secret inside the Pentagon. But after his resignation, he argued publicly—and to great criticism—that it would be inappropriate and counterproductive for a former general, and a former Cabinet official, to criticize a sitting president. Doing so, he said, would threaten the apolitical nature of the military. When I interviewed him last year on this subject, he said, “When you leave an administration over clear policy differences, you need to give the people who are still there as much opportunity as possible to defend the country. They still have the responsibility of protecting this great big experiment of ours.” He did add, however: “There is a period in which I owe my silence. It’s not eternal. It’s not going to be forever.”

That period is now definitively over. Mattis reached the conclusion this past weekend that the American experiment is directly threatened by the actions of the president he once served. In his statement, Mattis makes it clear that the president’s response to the police killing of George Floyd, and the ensuing protests, triggered this public condemnation.

“When I joined the military, some 50 years ago,” he writes, “I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.”

He goes on to implicitly criticize the current secretary of defense, Mark Esper, and other senior officials as well. “We must reject any thinking of our cities as a ‘battlespace’ that our uniformed military is called upon to ‘dominate.’ At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/612640/

I agree with James Mattis, and as a foreigner who once grew up in a vibrant, cosmopolitan city that is now seeing what's left of its freedoms and autonomy rapidly swept away by a brutal Communist regime intent on assuming complete control of the territory, I respect the U.S. Army tremendously after reading their official statement on the unrest surrounding George Floyd's death. America has, can, and MUST uphold the principles of freedom, democracy, the rule of law, due process, and all of these other fundamental rights that the country was founded upon and that so many in the West currently take for granted.

As a staunch, non-woke, non-PC, centrist liberal, I believe that America is the greatest country in the world not only because of its sheer strength and ubiquitous global cultural and geopolitical influence, but also and especially because of all the things that it stands for. HK protesters fighting against vicious police brutality and totalitarian political repression are often seen waving the American flag and singing the U.S. national anthem for this very reason.

As much as I condemn the opportunistic rioters and looters who are piggybacking on a wave of legitimate anger and frustration, as much as I disagree with the woke, ideologically misguided, race-based rhetoric of BLM, the Left, corrupt Democrat politicians, woke, clueless, virtue-signaling celebrities such as Taylor Swift, and left-wing media mouthpieces such as CNN, as much as I condemn the rank hypocrisy of many a leftist in (rightly) condemning right-wing anti-lockdown protesters who fail to observe social distancing while failing to condemn a similar disregard for social distancing measures among leftist and BLM protesters, and as much as I strongly appreciate Donald Trump's recent actions against China and the WHO, his administration's unprecedented support and solidarity with Taiwan and the people of Hong Kong, his recent Executive Order to uphold free speech, good or bad, on social media platforms/publishers with a large, global userbase, and a number of other actions he has taken during his first term in office, the countless instances of HK-style police brutality against peaceful protesters that have materialized online and Donald Trump's recent "law & order" statements and actions have made me very uncomfortable about endorsing Trump outright and unambiguously denouncing the antics of the Left, BLM, Antifa, and actual rioters like I used to in the very recent past.

The federal AG's order to military police to clear protesters from a square in D.C. so the President could take a stroll to a nearby burned-out church and Trump's call to "dominate" the streets is not something I can enthusiastically get behind in any way, shape, or form. I have said time and time again that, given his propensity to run his mouth on Twitter, I prefer to judge the President by his actions rather than his words. Well, this time, his recent, ham-fisted actions in D.C. are no different than that of any wannabe dictator. I am honestly shocked that he is even able to order federal security forces around a federal district in such a brazen manner, something I would've expected the U.S. Constitution and America's robust, centuries-old democratic institutions to legally prevent.

Chinese state media has seized upon the President's heavy-handed response to the George Floyd protests and riots to accuse him and ALL Americans of hypocrisy and justify Beijing's unrelenting crackdown on dissent in HK and Mainland China. HK Chief Executive Carrie Lam is literally gloating about the situation in America, as is a certain pro-CCP apologist on this forum whom I will not name. Makes me absolutely sick to my stomach.

It wouldn't be the first time Trump has done or said something to cause me to seriously question whether I should even be supporting him at all. The last time this happened, Trump announced a sudden and unilateral withdrawal of U.S. forces from Kurdish Rojava in northern Syria without bothering to consult any of the affected parties, leaving Kurdish militias to fend for themselves and forcing them to make a deal with Russia and the murderous Assad regime in order to fend off a Turkish invasion attempt, which I don't blame them for doing. This is, coincidentally, a view I happen to share with Gen. Mattis. Not only has the U.S. president managed to polarize already existing political divisions in his country, but he has also managed to personally divide me down the middle.

Meanwhile, the Wuhan coronavirus continues to claim the lives of countless thousands of Americans thanks to a combination of Donald Trump's incompetence in handling the pandemic at home and the total lack of social distancing among many protesters of both the right-wing, anti-lockdown and left-wing, BLM persuasions. A second wave of infections is pretty likely at this point. I honestly don't know who to unambiguously support or side with during this period of civil unrest, and genuinely good actors are very hard to come by. For now, I'm going to monitor the unrest from afar and see how events continue to unfold. One thing I'm certain of is that America urgently needs to get its shit together with the coronavirus and the unrest in order that it may once again be the leader of the free world that it was destined to be.

[Caracasus]

Now that sounds fun. Everyone trying to arrest each other.

More interestingly, if a cop (on duty) sprayed a civilian with "water" I wouldn't find grounds for arrest.

It's not that I trust cops to use water when it seems to be water, more than civilians. It's because the cop has a badge and can be ID'd through their commander, so they can be prosecuted if the "water" turned out to be something dangerous. It's not necessary to arrest them to ID them, so there's not enough reason for an arrest.

Essential to this line of reasoning is that assaulting someone with a sprinkle of (somehow verified) plain water is not itself a sufficiently serious crime to warrant arrest and charge, so unless there's suspicion of something else or property is damaged by the water, it wouldn't be enough for an arrest either. Arrest without charge is sometimes justified: for probable cause or to remove a person from a situation (say blocking traffic) or perhaps to allow them to talk freely without other civilian witnesses. In this case it would be "probable cause for a search" and it might be only a few minutes before the cop who got sprinkled is reassured that they haven't been poisoned or maimed. The "search" being their investigation of the effects of the liquid.

Ah water and police and accountability.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_o ... 20touch%22.

Tl:dr pigs 'punished' a mentally ill black man by boiling him alive in a prison shower.

A couple of them lost their jobs.