Is time for Men to get the right to vote?

[Rojava Free State]

Selective service either needs to be done away with entirely (optimal) or women need to sign up for it as well.

I love how we exclude women from the draft because "we need people to raise the kids," as if men can't do it. So if a man dies in war and leaves his family, the woman can take care of the kids, but if a woman dies in war, the family is just fucked cause men can't do anything right when it comes to children?

[Cisairse]

Incidentally, this is what people mean when they talk about “male disposability” being a problem that we need to address as a society.

I was speaking from a military perspective but, from a social one, men are supposed to be the disposable ones. I don't think this is an idea forced upon men, mind you, I think that it's one that we have willing taken upon ourselves. Most men, I would say, enjoy working, providing for themselves and others - even if that work involves dangerous labor. It's a fairly common sentiment among men that, " Better me in the coal mines than my sister or daughter ". Generally then, men like to work, and they don't like to put their women before them in possibly dangerous situations.

That is not to say that men are actually disposable, merely that, they are the ones most willing to be disposed of.

I have literally never heard anyone say that, in any situation

[Knask]

It's very different from the US, where you are allowed to vote when you are 18 years or older.

*if you are female, or avoid becoming a felon from not signing up to die if male

It's actually more of a challenge to become a felon from not registering than the opposite, since the feds no longer prosecute for failing to register.

But what if you're a female murderer? THEN you get prosecuted and disenfranchised, in some states. So it is time for women to get the right to vote!

[Oceanor]

Now that I've thought about it, this is probably just an election plot on Trumps part. Seeing as a huge part of the Democrats voters are Women from the ashes of 18 to 25, the Republicans are probably pushing for this to discourage that voting group from going to the polls.

[Washington Resistance Army]

No, make women sign up for the draft before they can vote too.

[Cisairse]

Now that I've thought about it, this is probably just an election plot on Trumps part. Seeing as a huge part of the Democrats voters are Women from the ashes of 18 to 25, the Republicans are probably pushing for this to discourage that voting group from going to the polls.

OP isn't a Trump supporter, and nobody has said anything about discouraging women from voting.

[The East Marches II]

*if you are female, or avoid becoming a felon from not signing up to die if male

It's actually more of a challenge to become a felon from not registering than the opposite, since the feds no longer prosecute for failing to register.

But what if you're a female murderer? THEN you get prosecuted and disenfranchised, in some states. So it is time for women to get the right to vote!

How mediocre and pathetic does your position have to be that when one brings up a male specific issue we get moaning about muh women. Always the victim status, one can never ask your sort to engage without that as a shield.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Selective service either needs to be done away with entirely (optimal) or women need to sign up for it as well.

I love how we exclude women from the draft because "we need people to raise the kids," as if men can't do it. So if a man dies in war and leaves his family, the woman can take care of the kids, but if a woman dies in war, the family is just fucked cause men can't do anything right when it comes to children?

Tbf it makes sense biologically. Women are more important to the reproduction cycle and maintaining a population than men are. Our contribution is little more than a pump and dump and we can move on and do other stuff. A woman has to deal with it for 9 months before she can even think of doing it again. If you lose a big portion of your male population you can bounce back pretty quickly, but that's not true if a lot of your women die.

[Galloism]

I love how we exclude women from the draft because "we need people to raise the kids," as if men can't do it. So if a man dies in war and leaves his family, the woman can take care of the kids, but if a woman dies in war, the family is just fucked cause men can't do anything right when it comes to children?

Tbf it makes sense biologically. Women are more important to the reproduction cycle and maintaining a population than men are. Our contribution is little more than a pump and dump and we can move on and do other stuff. A woman has to deal with it for 9 months before she can even think of doing it again. If you lose a big portion of your male population you can bounce back pretty quickly, but that's not true if a lot of your women die.

I mean, this is only true if your society has polygamy as a societal norm. Russia still has ongoing birth dips that are a repercussion of all the people (predominantly men) of reproduction age that died in World War 2, because they had monogamy as a social norm.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Tbf it makes sense biologically. Women are more important to the reproduction cycle and maintaining a population than men are. Our contribution is little more than a pump and dump and we can move on and do other stuff. A woman has to deal with it for 9 months before she can even think of doing it again. If you lose a big portion of your male population you can bounce back pretty quickly, but that's not true if a lot of your women die.

I mean, this is only true if your society has polygamy as a societal norm. Russia still has ongoing birth dips that are a repercussion of all the people (predominantly men) of reproduction age that died in World War 2, because they had monogamy as a social norm.

Russia is a bit of a unique case because people also stopped having kids because of the whole economic and political collapse thing a while back.

[The East Marches II]

I mean, this is only true if your society has polygamy as a societal norm. Russia still has ongoing birth dips that are a repercussion of all the people (predominantly men) of reproduction age that died in World War 2, because they had monogamy as a social norm.

Russia is a bit of a unique case because people also stopped having kids because of the whole economic and political collapse thing a while back.

It is unfortunately not unique that war killing alot of men in a monogamous society ruins everything. I suspect it would be a nightmare even in the places where polygamy was the norm. In France, the resulting loss manpower and non-births led to what the French military would call the lean years. I've old studies on German propaganda magazines with excerpts on their concerns regarding the population tree and the missing Germans not killed by shells but who were never born due to the First World War.

[Oceanor]

Now that I've thought about it, this is probably just an election plot on Trumps part. Seeing as a huge part of the Democrats voters are Women from the ashes of 18 to 25, the Republicans are probably pushing for this to discourage that voting group from going to the polls.

OP isn't a Trump supporter, and nobody has said anything about discouraging women from voting.

I wasnt talking about anybody on this thread, I was talking about the Republican Party.

[Major-Tom]

I think there is something to be said about both the selective service and especially felony disenfranchisement, but I wouldn't compare it to anything "misandrist" as the OP implies.

[Katganistan]

Selective service either needs to be done away with entirely (optimal) or women need to sign up for it as well.

I love how we exclude women from the draft because "we need people to raise the kids," as if men can't do it. So if a man dies in war and leaves his family, the woman can take care of the kids, but if a woman dies in war, the family is just fucked cause men can't do anything right when it comes to children?

Hence, everyone or no one.

[Katganistan]

I think there is something to be said about both the selective service and especially felony disenfranchisement, but I wouldn't compare it to anything "misandrist" as the OP implies.

I also think that once one serves their time, they should be allowed to vote.

[Vassenor]

I love how we exclude women from the draft because "we need people to raise the kids," as if men can't do it. So if a man dies in war and leaves his family, the woman can take care of the kids, but if a woman dies in war, the family is just fucked cause men can't do anything right when it comes to children?

Hence, everyone or no one.

Exactly what the feminist groups say about the draft, but we're not allowed to talk about that because it's bad for the oppression narrative.

[Thepeopl]

Selective service either needs to be done away with entirely (optimal) or women need to sign up for it as well.

I love how we exclude women from the draft because "we need people to raise the kids," as if men can't do it. So if a man dies in war and leaves his family, the woman can take care of the kids, but if a woman dies in war, the family is just fucked cause men can't do anything right when it comes to children?

Well, to be fair when the draft was introduced (in ancient Mesopotamia, https://www.history.com/topics/us-gover ... nscription )there wasn't a substitute for breastfeeding.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_formula

[United Muscovite Nations]

Voting is a privilege, not a right. When you surrender your power and freedoms to the state so they can enforce your freedom, it means the state gets to decide what those freedoms are, since they are the ones enforcing it. It is a social contract, not a social gift.

I've seen the idea of a social contract torn up so many times, I can't even find a little piece of it left to tear up.

"Voting is a privilege, not a right" ... can you explain why, without resorting to a circular argument about freedoms?

Because the state rules society independently of the social contract. The social contract is the agreement that the state agrees to abide by, and which the people living under the state must abide by.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Voting is a privilege, not a right.

No, it's not. It's a prerogative of the members of the "People".

"The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature."

Constitutions are irrelevant to the power of the state.

[King of the Incels]

You won't get any traction on this because people still believe women are oppressed. And that this "fact" means mens lives should be disposable and for women's use.

[Oceanor]

You won't get any traction on this because people still believe women are oppressed. And that this "fact" means mens lives should be disposable and for women's use.

I knew the instant that I set my eyes on your name and your flag that I shouldn't take you seriously.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Hence, everyone or no one.

Exactly what the feminist groups say about the draft, but we're not allowed to talk about that because it's bad for the oppression narrative.

"Everyone or no one" has been said by several men in this thread. It's trivially obvious frankly, only a few like Joohan disagree.

So should it be everyone? Or no one?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

1. You won't get any traction on this because people still believe women are oppressed. 2.And that this "fact" means mens lives should be disposable and for women's use.

Hmm.
1. "people still believe" is too vague to prove or disprove.
2. You're saying most people support conscription for men but not for women. That CAN be proved or disproved.

As a matter of courtesy, you get the first chance. Prove 2.

[Galloism]

1. You won't get any traction on this because people still believe women are oppressed. 2.And that this "fact" means mens lives should be disposable and for women's use.

Hmm.
1. "people still believe" is too vague to prove or disprove.
2. You're saying most people support conscription for men but not for women. That CAN be proved or disproved.

As a matter of courtesy, you get the first chance. Prove 2.

This is actually very largely split along gender lines.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public ... _the_draft

Notably, this didn't ask if NO one should register for the draft, but merely whether women should be made to register like men.

But while 61% of male voters believe women should be required to register for the draft, only 38% of female voters agree. Most women (52%) oppose such a requirement, and 10% more are undecided.

[Albrenia]

Does this technically mean that the US is 'disablist' because people like me who are exempt from the draft due the being as useful as a dog's bollocks on the battlefield get the right to vote without having to sign up for it?

I still think conscription should be done away with, and that anyone of age who is a citizen should have a right to vote, no matter their personal circumstances or status.