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Alternate History Thread(CLOSED)

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Which of these will we primarily discuss in the future?

Poll ended at Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:31 am

-What if Alexander the Great lived to old age?
24
25%
-What if Britain and its allies completely won the War of the Spanish Succession?
4
4%
-What if France and its allies completely won the War of the Spanish Succession?
1
1%
-What if America lost the Revolutionary war?
10
10%
-What if the CSA won the Civil War(and got all slave-holding states and D.C.)?
9
9%
-What if Anime was made in the USSR?
33
34%
-What if America collapsed?
15
16%
 
Total votes : 96

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Xmara
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Postby Xmara » Mon May 25, 2020 1:20 pm

I have a bunch of what-ifs:

What if European settlers never colonized the Americas?
What if the South won the American Civil War?
What if West Virginia never split from Virginia?
What if Abraham Lincoln was never assassinated?
What if the Bolshevik Revolution never occurred?
What if the Central Powers won WWI?
What if the Axis Powers won WWII?
What if the Korean War never happened?
What if the Vietnam War never happened?
What if tensions escalated during the Cold War and the US and USSR began attacking each other?
What if Martin Luther King Jr. was never assassinated?
What if John F. Kennedy was never assassinated?
What if German Reunification never happened?
What if 9/11 never happened?
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Brunswick-upon-Raritan
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Ex-Nation

Postby Brunswick-upon-Raritan » Mon May 25, 2020 1:22 pm

What if Star Wars really did happen a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away?
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Feyrisshire
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Feyrisshire » Mon May 25, 2020 1:24 pm

Exalted Inquellian State wrote:So how long until a revolution happens in Germany or the USSR fights them? Also, would he likely integrate his puppets into the USSR or keep them as nominally sovereign nations?


Trotsky is more known to be idealist than Stalin/Lenin, so we really don't know whether he would change his mind in after knowing the conditions while being in leadership. Suffice to say he also wrote very little on what he would do if he ever came to power. Also, Trotsky’s “world revolution” is also objectively bad as the USSR going into war with everybody or supporting revolutions before strengthening itself is suicidal. There’s a reason why Stalin’s “Socialism in One Country” won out since it is the more practical approach.

I think he would simply be forced to discard it or his theory would be reinterpreted like biding in time before a revolution in Germany is part of the “world revolution”.

Also, there was no successful socialist revolution in Germany. The Spartacist uprising in Berlin in 1919 was quickly squashed. It’s very hard to say how Trotsky can change the situation as the conditions for a revolution in Germany are not tenable at the time. The decisions of Stalin on what places to annex or to leave independent, rely on factors outside their control such as the need to place annexations within Russian national borders so I’m not sure also how would Trotsky change that.
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Exalted Inquellian State
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Mon May 25, 2020 3:17 pm

Feyrisshire wrote:
Exalted Inquellian State wrote:So how long until a revolution happens in Germany or the USSR fights them? Also, would he likely integrate his puppets into the USSR or keep them as nominally sovereign nations?


Trotsky is more known to be idealist than Stalin/Lenin, so we really don't know whether he would change his mind in after knowing the conditions while being in leadership. Suffice to say he also wrote very little on what he would do if he ever came to power. Also, Trotsky’s “world revolution” is also objectively bad as the USSR going into war with everybody or supporting revolutions before strengthening itself is suicidal. There’s a reason why Stalin’s “Socialism in One Country” won out since it is the more practical approach.

I think he would simply be forced to discard it or his theory would be reinterpreted like biding in time before a revolution in Germany is part of the “world revolution”.

Also, there was no successful socialist revolution in Germany. The Spartacist uprising in Berlin in 1919 was quickly squashed. It’s very hard to say how Trotsky can change the situation as the conditions for a revolution in Germany are not tenable at the time. The decisions of Stalin on what places to annex or to leave independent, rely on factors outside their control such as the need to place annexations within Russian national borders so I’m not sure also how would Trotsky change that.

Well, I guess he would find a middle ground i.e- integrating all former Russian imperial territories, along with all Slavic territories, to form the U.S.S.S.R- Union of Soviet Socialist Slavic Republics.

Also, you said SUCCESSFUL revolution- so would he attempt revolution before or after 1933?
Last edited by Exalted Inquellian State on Mon May 25, 2020 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Exalted Inquellian State
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Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Mon May 25, 2020 3:19 pm

Ok, we're adding what if the CSA won the civil war.
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Tokora
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Tokora » Mon May 25, 2020 4:03 pm

Has anyone watched "The Man in the High Castle" on Amazon. Or read the book, I loved both but personally the book's better.

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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon May 25, 2020 4:06 pm

Alexander living for ~3 more decades probably would have wildly changed world history and is a real interesting one to think about.
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon May 25, 2020 4:24 pm

I had to vote for Soviet anime, it's the derpiest option there.
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Drew Durrnil
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Postby Drew Durrnil » Mon May 25, 2020 4:27 pm

I have a question, what if France won the Seven Years War?

My answer to this is that if France won the Seven Years War, then America will never have gone through a revolution and so won't all the other countries that went through a revolution, which means that:

1. Napoleon would not have ruled France;
1a. The Holy Roman Empire will still exist because Napoleon defeated the HRE;

2. America would not exist;
2a. Even if America did go through a revolutionary war, they would probably lose because they would not have help from allies;

3. Poland-Lithuania will still exist

If America did not exist;

1. The War of 1812 would not happen;

2. The Louisiana Purchase would not have happened;
2a. France will have kept the land for a long time, probably until WW2, which will definitely make France much stronger;

3. Immigrants would not have emigrated to Ellis Island, making the would-be immigrants stuck at their homeland;

4. The Atlantic Revolutions (Revolution of France, Poland-Lithuania, Latin America, etc.) would never had happened

If Napoleonic France did not exist;

1. Waterloo would never had happened;

2. The HRE would still exist;
2a. There will be no German Empire nor Nazi Germany, thus no WW2

What do you think?
Last edited by Drew Durrnil on Mon May 25, 2020 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Rojava Free State
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Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Mon May 25, 2020 4:27 pm

What if Europeans never found America?
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Neanderthaland
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Neanderthaland » Mon May 25, 2020 4:29 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:What if Europeans never found America?

Uhh... I mean, never?

Like, ever?

Probably Europe would be a wasteland, having been devastated by a giant meteor.
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Feyrisshire
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Nov 27, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Feyrisshire » Mon May 25, 2020 4:30 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:I had to vote for Soviet anime, it's the derpiest option there.


I promised to make a serious and detailed alt history timeline for "What if anime and hentai was made in the USSR" if it ever wins the poll.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon May 25, 2020 4:33 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:What if Europeans never found America?

Uhh... I mean, never?

Like, ever?

Probably Europe would be a wasteland, having been devastated by a giant meteor.


What if the New World discovered Europe first? Like Europeans didn't bother traveling west and the Native people had enough time to advance enough to head east and reach Europe?
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Neanderthaland
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Neanderthaland » Mon May 25, 2020 4:48 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Uhh... I mean, never?

Like, ever?

Probably Europe would be a wasteland, having been devastated by a giant meteor.


What if the New World discovered Europe first? Like Europeans didn't bother traveling west and the Native people had enough time to advance enough to head east and reach Europe?

Right...

So technological progress is not a strictly linear process. In some ways the civilizations of Mesoamerica were more advanced than Europeans upon contact. But we're not concerned here with hydroponic agriculture, we're concerned with ship building ability. And... well, it seems likely that the Natives of North and South America were several thousand years away from completing a boat that could cross the Atlantic. It's hard to put exact dates on it, because technology advances in spurts. But this would require them to develop what, to them, would be a mostly novel technology and advance it in sophistication quite a bit. To the point where it took the Old World millennia to make the same progress.

So at some point in the year 3,800 AD, when the North American Indians go over to Europe. They will encounter flying cities populated by genetically modified cat girls, who - for some unknown reason - are pathologically incapable of traveling West, never took any satellite photos of the Earth, and are instinctively incurious about maps.

We're excluding the Northernmost parts of North America in this. Because the Natives of that region had constant contact with Asia to the West since basically forever. And constant contact with Europe to the East at least since the Vikings showed up near their settlements in Greenland. The Inuit and the Icelanders knew each other, even in Columbus' time, and well before.
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Voxija
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Postby Voxija » Mon May 25, 2020 4:54 pm

I considered voting for "CSA won" because I'm Floridian, but I voted for "Soviet Anime" because I know a Russian otaku.
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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Mon May 25, 2020 4:54 pm

An alternate history I've been writing in my free time on-and-off for the past few years is one where certain political figures take different paths in the 1830s where by the 1850s, the American Civil War still occurs, but it is much more irregular, with frequent acts of terrorism occurring in Northern cities and the South being directly supported by foreign powers. The Union still wins the war but the end result is that the United States has become a military dictatorship that remains in power well into the 20th Century.
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Exalted Inquellian State
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Mon May 25, 2020 4:55 pm

Darn it why is the CSA proposal getting no votes?
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Rojava Free State
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Mon May 25, 2020 4:55 pm

A common alternate history idea is what if the Axis won World War II?
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Exalted Inquellian State
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Mon May 25, 2020 5:06 pm

Also, kargentina, sory for ridiculing your Regan timeline.
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Exalted Inquellian State
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Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Mon May 25, 2020 5:21 pm

Drew Durrnil wrote:I have a question, what if France won the Seven Years War?

My answer to this is that if France won the Seven Years War, then America will never have gone through a revolution and so won't all the other countries that went through a revolution, which means that:

1. Napoleon would not have ruled France;
1a. The Holy Roman Empire will still exist because Napoleon defeated the HRE;

2. America would not exist;
2a. Even if America did go through a revolutionary war, they would probably lose because they would not have help from allies;

3. Poland-Lithuania will still exist

If America did not exist;

1. The War of 1812 would not happen;

2. The Louisiana Purchase would not have happened;
2a. France will have kept the land for a long time, probably until WW2, which will definitely make France much stronger;

3. Immigrants would not have emigrated to Ellis Island, making the would-be immigrants stuck at their homeland;

4. The Atlantic Revolutions (Revolution of France, Poland-Lithuania, Latin America, etc.) would never had happened

If Napoleonic France did not exist;

1. Waterloo would never had happened;

2. The HRE would still exist;
2a. There will be no German Empire nor Nazi Germany, thus no WW2

What do you think?

Why would there be No German Empire?
My Three Way Cold War Map Game=https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=486045

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Greater Miami Shores
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Mon May 25, 2020 5:21 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:A common alternate history idea is what if the Axis won World War II?

I was thinking of posting my alternate history if the Axis won world war 2.

Due to German spies in London the allied invasion of Normandy failed. The German leader declared victory in Europe, over Britain, the USA and Russia. Britain and the US withdrew from the war in Asia and Europe. Hitler Forced the other fascist leaders to serve under him in a council of fascist leaders. Prime Minister Winston Churchill was not blamed for losing the war, still popular went into self exile in Canada and became Prime Minister of Canada under the crown. King Edward and Queen Wallace became King and Queen of England under a council of British Kings and Queens. Kennedy Senior became the next US President. Charles Limbourg became the first American Ambassador to Germany. After Hitler died the fascist council of leaders declared the new German led empire a multi political party democratic capitalist nation. Welcoming Jews as rich respected business man, business women, and Council of Ministers. The Greater German led empire recognized Israel as the main nation of the Jewish People. Recognized a Palestinian State of Palestine as the main nation of the Palestinian People. Happy ending for all at the end.
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Exalted Inquellian State
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Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Mon May 25, 2020 5:26 pm

Greater Miami Shores wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:A common alternate history idea is what if the Axis won World War II?

I was thinking of posting my alternate history if the Axis won world war 2.

Due to German spies in London the allied invasion of Normandy failed. The German leader declared victory in Europe, over Britain, the USA and Russia. Britain and the US withdrew from the war in Asia and Europe. Hitler Forced the other fascist leaders to serve under him in a council of fascist leaders. Prime Minister Winston Churchill was not blamed for losing the war, still popular went into self exile in Canada and became Prime Minister of Canada under the crown. King Edward and Queen Wallace became King and Queen of England under a council of British Kings and Queens. Kennedy Senior became the next US President. Charles Limbourg became the first American Ambassador to Germany. After Hitler died the fascist council of leaders declared the new German led empire a multi political party democratic capitalist nation. Welcoming Jews as rich respected business man, business women, and Council of Ministers. The Greater German led empire recognized Israel as the main nation of the Jewish People. Recognized a Palestinian State of Palestine as the main nation of the Palestinian People. Happy ending for all at the end.

I agree on the happy ending. But it probably wouldn't end like that, even though I really, really would want it too. It would be a lot longer and bloodier before we got that. When a certain ruler of the USSR died in 1953, it lasted years after. This is the same situation. And ultimately, though it's positive, it makes it seem like a German victory wouldn't change anything in the long run, and be inconsequential. Also, it's unlikely it would become a republic even after the end of Third Realm. Likely a military junta or empire. Maybe a republic later.
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Celritannia
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Posts: 9513
Founded: Nov 10, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Mon May 25, 2020 5:27 pm

Greater Miami Shores wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:A common alternate history idea is what if the Axis won World War II?

I was thinking of posting my alternate history if the Axis won world war 2.

Due to German spies in London the allied invasion of Normandy failed. The German leader declared victory in Europe, over Britain, the USA and Russia. Britain and the US withdrew from the war in Asia and Europe. Hitler Forced the other fascist leaders to serve under him in a council of fascist leaders. Prime Minister Winston Churchill was not blamed for losing the war, still popular went into self exile in Canada and became Prime Minister of Canada under the crown. King Edward and Queen Wallace became King and Queen of England under a council of British Kings and Queens. Kennedy Senior became the next US President. Charles Limbourg became the first American Ambassador to Germany. After Hitler died the fascist council of leaders declared the new German led empire a multi political party democratic capitalist nation. Welcoming Jews as rich respected business man, business women, and Council of Ministers. The Greater German led empire recognized Israel as the main nation of the Jewish People. Recognized a Palestinian State of Palestine as the main nation of the Palestinian People. Happy ending for all at the end.


Even for alternate-history, that end would be unlikely. Even the invasion of the UK would be difficult for the Germans. Their Navy and Air Force would not be able to disrupt the superiority of the RAF and RN, especially with US ships and aircraft stationed their too.
Let's also not forget the time the Normandy landings were happening, the USSR was already steam rolling across from the East.
So even if D-Day failed, that does not stop the British along with her Commonwealth, and the US from fighting. There'll still be troops in southern countries working their way up.

In fact, any attempt at an invasion of the UK after 1944 would be impossible. The Germans would turn all their attention East to stop the Soviet invasion, which could have Hitler's military commanders advise peace with the allies to help stop the spread of communism.

There is also the point that there were 2 possible invasions points by the allies, Normandy (which was chosen second) and Italy (soft under belly which did not work out). If Normandy failed, then using Italy, or at least the Balkan states as an invasion (which is what Churchill wanted) would be the next point of invasion for the allies, and was considered.
This had 2 aspects. 1, invading Nazi Germany and it's Reich. 2. stopping the Soviet Union from heading far into Europe.
Last edited by Celritannia on Mon May 25, 2020 5:35 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Voxija
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Postby Voxija » Mon May 25, 2020 5:30 pm

Greater Miami Shores wrote:After Hitler died the fascist council of leaders declared the new German led empire a multi political party democratic capitalist nation. Welcoming Jews as rich respected business man, business women, and Council of Ministers. The Greater German led empire recognized Israel as the main nation of the Jewish People. Recognized a Palestinian State of Palestine as the main nation of the Palestinian People. Happy ending for all at the end.


Ha! That happy ending reminds me of my timeline for the CSA winning. CSA wins the Civil War. They keep their slaves because slavery is in the Confederate constitution. In the twenties or thereabouts, the slaves revolt in a communist revolution and the South becomes less racist. The North becomes more racist due to the first Red Scare making Northers see everything "commie" as evil, and racial tolerance as commie due to the communist South suddenly adopting it. The North turns fascist in response to the "Southern Bolsheviks" and joins the Axis. The Allies still win, but barely, and the North maintains its power and economy. When the Cold War ends, the South stops being communist and turns into a racial utopia. The North remains a quasi-democratic dictatorship with no freedoms and a great economy. The North is now invading the South because the North's leader thinks there is an oppressed white minority.
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Exalted Inquellian State
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Mon May 25, 2020 5:36 pm

Guys, this is our chance! Everyone, Vote the Alexander timeline!
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