Polyamorous relationships, are they damaging to society?

[Celritannia]

If people are more open to the concept of ethical non-monogamy, there could very well be less instances of cheating, divorce, etc. Getting rid of the expectation of rigid "two people fall in exclusive romantic love and get married" and letting people develop natural, fluid relationships without stigma can do a lot of good.

I have qualms with your use of "ethical".

What is an ethical relationship, exactly? And how do you define an ethical non-monogamous relationship?

Also, based on the answer to the questions above, what makes your definition of an ethical non-monogamous relationship better than, say, the definition other non-monogamous societies and religious groups have used in the past?

As the article described, there is no difference between what goes on between a monogamous relationship and a non-monogamous relationship.

[Salandriagado]

So...bullshit someone pulled out of their ass.

"I don't like it when studies show polygamy is bad"

If you've got studies, post studies. Not shitty news articles reporting on studies.

[Galloism]

im cackling
an incel will be an incel, no matter what types of relationships are common.

If anything, mass acceptance of polyamory would be beneficial to incels (assuming they're not total shitbags that nobody in their right mind would want to date), since it would give them more potential dating partners.

Probably not. Due to differences in male vs female attractiveness metrics, the most common type of polyamorous relationship is likely to be polygynous in nature. This is borne out by the statistics we have (such as they are) which give some indication how it’s working on the ground:

There are more women than men: Essentially half of the respondents (49.5 percent) identified as female, while only 35.4 percent identified as male. The remaining 15.1 percent either declined to choose between male and female or wrote in “third” genders such as two-spirit and genderqueer.

The survey didn’t ask respondents to state their sexual orientation, but about half of the female respondents and about a fifth of the male respondents were actively bisexual, having had sex with both men and women within the preceding 12 months.

It’s likely to go the other way.

https://www.advocate.com/current-issue/ ... ry-numbers

[Atlacatl Batallion]

Can someone really point to a social good that comes out of polygamy/polyamory?

Also, can someone point to a meaningful difference between polygamy and polyamory?

I understand everyone has strong opinions regarding both, but the topic is whether or not, at the social level, they would do more harm than good, if I understand the OP correctly, not whether or not we should allow them per se.

1. People being accepted for who they are regardless of what kind of amorous relationships they choose to enter into.

2. Polygamy is one man taking multiple female partners. Polyamory is any number of individuals entering into an amorous relationship regardless of gender identity.

Got it? Good.

Your first point doesn't make sense. As not all amorous relationships are accepted, or should be accepted in society. As a matter of fact we look down and judge certain kinds of relationships as illicit because they tear apart society more than they bring harmony in it.

As for your second point, that a distinction without a difference. All you're really saying is it is more acceptable because you think one definition has to do with patriarchy and the other doesn't, which is not how definitions work.

[Luminesa]

yes, but it seems like common sense to want there to be as few incels as possible

I mean, if we go with this logic, LGBT+ acceptance drives up instances of inceldom and is therefore, bad. Maybe the problem causing incels isn't the sexual and romantic practices of other people, but the incels themselves.

I mean...inceldom is driven by a number of factors that are not LGBT related. Considering a lot of incels tend to be straight (or at least the horrible examples from Reddit, and the one kid who tried to get me to date him like four years ago, who turned-out to be a cyber stalker), it tends more toward being a problem of guys having so little esteem, and so warped a view of love, that they only feel fulfilled by getting a chick to have sex with them. But I guess LGBT incels do exist? Sexual abuse isn’t exactly confined to straight people.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

ding ding ding
lack of relationship doesn't cause incelness
incelness causes lack of relationship

orrrr maybe psychology is more complex than that and there's some sort of feedback loop going on :thinking:

Orrrrrrrrrr millions of people don't have a relationship and don't turn into incels. It's not a lack of relationship that causes incels. Period. They're just garbage people.

[Rojava Free State]

orrrr maybe psychology is more complex than that and there's some sort of feedback loop going on :thinking:

Orrrrrrrrrr millions of people don't have a relationship and don't turn into incels. It's not a lack of relationship that causes incels. Period. They're just garbage people.

Who would have thought that hating women would make women hate you?

[Grenartia]

Blaming polyamory on the fall of empires and massive amounts of violence and radicalization is as fucking pants-on-head stupid as blaming the fall of Rome on gay marriage.



Congratulations on missing my entire point. Maybe you should go back, and actually read it instead of skimming.

I didn’t miss anything. You literally told Cek that they of all people should know better than to go against polyamory, since people go against transgenderism. They’re not the same thing. Transgenderism is a condition, polyamory is a relationship. Transgenderism is not a choice, polyamory is.

You missed the entire part where I stated that they're both instances of people getting butthurt over a harmless thing for bullshit reasons.

And uhhhhhh Solomon’s empire is explicitly said to have fallen more or less because when he got married, he began worshipping the gods of his wives. And then ordered the people to do so.

That sounds less like a problem with polyamory, and more like a problem with religious intolerance, and lack of separation of church and state. Come on, a 3rd grader could debunk these arguments.

I never would have said that Rome fell because of gay love, because Rome fell due to barbarian invasions and a breakdown of its infrastructure due to overexpansion (among other things).

I've actually encountered people (including one of my high school teachers) who have said that. I wasn't saying you said that, but I was comparing it to your and others' statements about polyamory.

This is assuming that I would make uneducated comparisons due to your rage at being told that a particular kind of relationship is unhealthy by basically everyone else. You’ve got an entire page of people asking you for proofs, and you’re more or less just defaulting to, “IT’S STUPID YOU GOTTA BELIEVE ME.” On any place other than an Internet forum, you’d be laughed out the room.

Again, burden of proof is not on me here. Its on all of you who are saying its bad. You are the people making the claims, you have to prove them, and collectively, the attempts so far have been piss-poor.

[Celritannia]

Polygamy, not polyamory.

I would like to provide a rundown of the events leading up.
GVH: I would also allow polygamy because I don't think it's bad either
Me: Actually, polygamy has been shown to have a number of bad effects
US-SR+Gren: Provide proofs
Me: k *provides evidence from studies investigating cultures where polygamy is practiced vs monogamous ones*
US-SR+Gren: This is bullshit! This isn't true! This says nothing about polyamory
Me: I was addressing the point about polygamy tho

I know, but, the links you used to show problems with polygamy, is not the same for polyamory, which a few were doing.

[Cekoviu]

orrrr maybe psychology is more complex than that and there's some sort of feedback loop going on :thinking:

Orrrrrrrrrr millions of people don't have a relationship and don't turn into incels. It's not a lack of relationship that causes incels. Period. They're just garbage people.

wow, nice job totally missing the point :/

[Atlacatl Batallion]

I have qualms with your use of "ethical".

What is an ethical relationship, exactly? And how do you define an ethical non-monogamous relationship?

Also, based on the answer to the questions above, what makes your definition of an ethical non-monogamous relationship better than, say, the definition other non-monogamous societies and religious groups have used in the past?

As the article described, there is no difference between what goes on between a monogamous relationship and a non-monogamous relationship.

Again, you're confusing the personal with the social.

You personally can be okay with polygamy. I don't care about your personal feelings about polygamy, because I didn't ask how do you feel about polygamy. We're discussing the social effects of polygamy.

[Galloism]

Good sir and/or madam, I believe this post was overlooked.

It's not fully about signing a document or not.
So no, polygamy is somewhat different to polyamory, and therefore the articles relating to polygamy are not related to polyamory.

Explain the difference.

It’s not that polyamory has multiple interrelated relationships. Polygamy has that sometimes, and polyamory doesn’t necessarily. It’s that there’s love between all participants, which polygamy has that sometimes, and polyamory doesn’t necessarily.

Barring the paperwork aspect, I’m really struggling to see any difference at all.

[Luminesa]

ding ding ding
lack of relationship doesn't cause incelness
incelness causes lack of relationship

orrrr maybe psychology is more complex than that and there's some sort of feedback loop going on :thinking:

This. It’s a vicious cycle that is perpetuated from the time a child is young. They grow-up into a bitter, disturbed individual with a warped view of what constitutes a successful relationship.

[Grenartia]

I'm not the one making a positive claim. The burden of proof falls on them to show that polyamory is bad, not on me to disprove that claim.

we have though

And I've cast reasonable doubt on that "proof". The flat earthers have better proof for their claims than I've seen so far here.

[Nap the Magnificent]

"I don't like it when studies show polygamy is bad"

If you've got studies, post studies. Not shitty news articles reporting on studies.

TIL that the Royal Society and World Journal of Psychiatry are just shitty news rags.

[Celritannia]

Orrrrrrrrrr millions of people don't have a relationship and don't turn into incels. It's not a lack of relationship that causes incels. Period. They're just garbage people.

Who would have thought that hating women would make women hate you?

The Revolutionary Women's Anarchist Association (RWAA)

[Washington Resistance Army]

we have though

And I've cast reasonable doubt on that "proof". The flat earthers have better proof for their claims than I've seen so far here.

Or you're just exceptionally close minded on anything that doesn't conform to your pre-existing views when it comes to sexuality and gender issues lol

[Grenartia]

I'm not the one making a positive claim. The burden of proof falls on them to show that polyamory is bad, not on me to disprove that claim.

The claim you're making that their studies are false or don't apply falls on you to prove.

That's not how positive claims work, fam.

[Salandriagado]

I know you want to keep stating that polygamy is polyamory without paper work, but polyamory is not always the same.
And thus polygamy has more of a structure where one or a few people control others, which is not always the case with polyamory.

Those studies are therefore not focusing on polyamory.

Polygamy has multiple structures that are not always the same. Structures you described have existed.

Here’s what you are doing. Let’s say I want to engage in a practice of schtlicking. That’s my new word. It’s where when people have a disagreement, one can challenge the other to a schtlick. That’s where you back up back to back, walk at least 25 yards, and turn and shoot. One person wins and the other is dead.

And then, when you point out dueling had lots of bad consequences, I say “schtlicking is not dueling. In dueling, you only had to be ten yards apart. This is totally different. “

Then your head explodes from frustration.

For a better criticism: these studies focus on one particular kind of polygamy, and tell us nothing whatsoever about other forms of polyamorous relationships, even if we accept the validity of the studies at face value.

[Galloism]

I would like to provide a rundown of the events leading up.
GVH: I would also allow polygamy because I don't think it's bad either
Me: Actually, polygamy has been shown to have a number of bad effects
US-SR+Gren: Provide proofs
Me: k *provides evidence from studies investigating cultures where polygamy is practiced vs monogamous ones*
US-SR+Gren: This is bullshit! This isn't true! This says nothing about polyamory
Me: I was addressing the point about polygamy tho

I know, but, the links you used to show problems with polygamy, is not the same for polyamory, which a few were doing.

What are those differences?

Besides paperwork.

[Grenartia]

Pretend like anyone else knows what that means in context.

I'm pretty sure most people understand what the word 'cope' means.

Yes, but it makes no sense in this context.

[Grenartia]

Polyamorous relationships are morally wrong and damaging to society.

Human beings are meant to engage in only one intimate relationship, not multiple with multiple relationships with multiple partners.

Hahaha polycule machine go brrrrrrrt

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Orrrrrrrrrr millions of people don't have a relationship and don't turn into incels. It's not a lack of relationship that causes incels. Period. They're just garbage people.

wow, nice job totally missing the point :/

An incel isn't just an involuntarily celibate person. It's a way of viewing partners (particularly women) and feeling entitled to romantic or sexual attraction. This mindset is not caused by not being in a relationship, nor would ENM being an accepted relationship type increase the number of incels and incel-adjacent people.

[Nap the Magnificent]

I'm pretty sure most people understand what the word 'cope' means.

Yes, but it makes no sense in this context.

Fam, you are coping hard rn fr tho and I think that is pretty obvious to a lot of people.

[Celritannia]

Good sir and/or madam, I believe this post was overlooked.

Explain the difference.

It’s not that polyamory has multiple interrelated relationships. Polygamy has that sometimes, and polyamory doesn’t necessarily. It’s that there’s love between all participants, which polygamy has that sometimes, and polyamory doesn’t necessarily.

Barring the paperwork aspect, I’m really struggling to see any difference at all.

-Sir-
Sorry it was.

Some people don't, but there is a difference, and those involved do know the difference.