In Defence of All Lives Matter

[Jedi Council]

They say that. They're either lying or oblivious to their own geographic and circumstantial privilege. They need to show some fucking gratitude to their host countries instead of spiting the white people who fought and voted alongside them to abolish slavery, repeal Jim Crow laws, and consign racism and white supremacy to the dustbin of history. It was white people living in HK who gave me a good education and inculcated the very liberal, democratic, inclusive values that BLM activists are now twisting and appropriating to serve their own hateful, divisive agenda. Unlike these woke activists, I am grateful. They are not.

This is just an absolutely perverse take.

I mean come on, really? They need to show gratitude to their "host country," whatever the hell that means, and thank the whites for ending slavery and white supremacy?

Number one, host countries are not a thing. And even if they were, are you trying to claim that America is merely the "host country" for the black community, centuries after the first slave arrived?

Number two, the idea that black people should thank white people en masse for abolishing slavery, or repealing the Jim Crow Laws is the height of stupidity. It was white people who instituted these systems in the first place. Were there important white campaigners for equality and civil rights? Sure, and their contributions should be recorded, noted, and respected. But attributing the end of slavery, or Jim Crow, to the actions of white people, for which the black community should be thankful for is nonsense.

Thirdly, racism, and white supremacy, are not in the dustbin of history, unfortunately for all of us. They are very real, very powerful forces that are still shaping our society.

EDIT: Also, please show an example of the BLM movement saying no other lives but black lives matter, since you have claimed that is what they are proposing.

[The Alma Mater]

They say that. They're either lying or oblivious to their own geographic and circumstantial privilege. They need to show some fucking gratitude to their host countries instead of spiting the white people who fought and voted alongside them to abolish slavery, repeal Jim Crow laws, and consign racism and white supremacy to the dustbin of history. It was white people living in HK who gave me a good education and inculcated the very liberal, democratic, inclusive values that BLM activists are now twisting and appropriating to serve their own hateful, divisive agenda. Unlike these woke activists, I am grateful. They are not.

This is just an absolutely perverse take.

I mean come on, really? They need to show gratitude to their "host country," whatever the hell that means, and thank the whites for ending slavery and white supremacy?

Number one, host countries are not a thing. And even if they were, are you trying to claim that America is merely the "host country" for the black community, centuries after the first slave arrived?

Number two, the idea that black people should thank white people en masse for abolishing slavery, or repealing the Jim Crow Laws is the height of stupidity. It was white people who instituted these systems in the first place. Were there important white campaigners for equality and civil rights? Sure, and their contributions should be recorded, noted, and respected. But attributing the end of slavery, or Jim Crow, to the actions of white people, for which the black community should be thankful for is nonsense.

Thirdly, racism, and white supremacy, are not in the dustbin of history, unfortunately for all of us. They are very real, very powerful forces that are still shaping our society.

Nitpick: white people did not invent slavery. Most slaves brought to the USA were bought from African tribes that kept slaves. So in a sense they did end something they did not start.

Still human trafficking and I agree with the main gist of your post.

[Jedi Council]

This is just an absolutely perverse take.

I mean come on, really? They need to show gratitude to their "host country," whatever the hell that means, and thank the whites for ending slavery and white supremacy?

Number one, host countries are not a thing. And even if they were, are you trying to claim that America is merely the "host country" for the black community, centuries after the first slave arrived?

Number two, the idea that black people should thank white people en masse for abolishing slavery, or repealing the Jim Crow Laws is the height of stupidity. It was white people who instituted these systems in the first place. Were there important white campaigners for equality and civil rights? Sure, and their contributions should be recorded, noted, and respected. But attributing the end of slavery, or Jim Crow, to the actions of white people, for which the black community should be thankful for is nonsense.

Thirdly, racism, and white supremacy, are not in the dustbin of history, unfortunately for all of us. They are very real, very powerful forces that are still shaping our society.

Nitpick: white people did not invent slavery. Most slaves brought to the USA were bought from African tribes that kept slaves. So in a sense they did end something they did not start.

Still human trafficking and I agree with the main gist of your post.

Yes of course, I did not mean to imply that slavery was invented by white people, that shit has existed for thousands upon thousands of years.

I meant "slavery" in the context of the American system in particular.

[Knask]

Also, just to clarify, affirmative action is not racist. Period.

Funfact:

In Sweden, the Supreme Court has ruled that "affirmative action" ethnic quotas in universities are discrimination and hence unlawful. It said that the requirements for the intake should be the same for all. The justice minister said that the decision left no room for uncertainty

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmati ... te_note-24

Sweden. Of all places.

That's not so strange. Sweden is very comfortable with nazi and racist ideology. There was no reckoning after WW2 like there was in the rest of the movie, and the quiet support Sweden gave to Nazi Germany under the guise of "neutrality" has similarly gone uncritizised.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Funfact:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmati ... te_note-24

Sweden. Of all places.

That's not so strange. Sweden is very comfortable with nazi and racist ideology. There was no reckoning after WW2 like there was in the rest of the movie, and the quiet support Sweden gave to Nazi Germany under the guise of "neutrality" has similarly gone uncritizised.

This is a pretty wild swing at Sweden, for a court ruling I'm pretty sure you haven't read.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I think it was the analogy itself which burned to the ground there.

It was a bad one to begin with Doesn't help that there are people who chant black lives matter and actually are racist towards others (e.g. would never allow their daughter to marry a white boy).

Sadly, I do not have a better slogan.

There can be more than one slogan. It's interesting to see the movement trying to resolve the "Defund the Police" and "Abolish the Police" into one plan of action. But when they do I hope they also find a better slogan. Neither of those is as good as Black Lives Matter.

Back in the sixties I hear, "Off the Pig!" was popular. It's a bit violent for my taste, but it has that ring.

[New Bremerton]

An analogy from a commentator on a slightly unrelated subject, JK Rowling's odd comments on transgender people. Just sayin'. [emphasis added]

The problem is that blacks indeed have it bad - but not the worst nor the only one in their category To use the house analogy: you have several house that are on fire, a fee houses where there is a little fire in the kitchen and a few that are fine now but at risk of the fire moving to them.
Black lives matter is interpreted as picking one of those burning houses randomly and ignoring the others, including the ones with children inside. Not the intent, but is how it is received.

Speaking of burning homes with children inside...

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

Black lives matter is interpreted as picking one of those burning houses randomly and ignoring the others, including the ones with children inside. Not the intent, but is how it is received.

And this is the fault of people being bigoted, not Black Lives Matter.

I don’t see people begrudging Catholic Charities USA, the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, the Hispanic Heritage Foundation, the Birthright Israel Foundation, the Irish American Business Network, etc. the same way they do Black Lives Matter, even though the same superficial critique of “being perceived as singling out a particular demographic” could be levied at any of them. People are projecting a lot of other unspoken beliefs onto Black Lives Matter groups that they don’t do for other community-centered organizations.

[Rojava Free State]

I think it was the analogy itself which burned to the ground there.

It was a bad one to begin with Doesn't help that there are people who chant black lives matter and actually are racist towards others (e.g. would never allow their daughter to marry a white boy).

Sadly, I do not have a better slogan.

Since BLM is amorphous, there's alot of different people in there, some of whom are normal and some of whom are basically some dang old Afrika Bambata and the Zulu Nation racist ripoff. At day's end I'm still reluctant to associate with the movement because of the less than minimal amount of afrocentric bigots and white guilt liberals within it. I support ending police misconduct but that doesnt mean I totally support this specific movement. Black Lives do Matter, and saying they matter doesn't mean others don't, but police brutality doesn't only affect black people and even the BLM types have admitted the latinos are affected too, so why call it black lives matter? Why not just call it fuck 12, cause that was the label I went by for years and it worked fine regardless of your race.

[Rojava Free State]

Black lives matter is interpreted as picking one of those burning houses randomly and ignoring the others, including the ones with children inside. Not the intent, but is how it is received.

And this is the fault of people being bigoted, not Black Lives Matter.

I don’t see people begrudging Catholic Charities USA, the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, the Hispanic Heritage Foundation, the Birthright Israel Foundation, the Irish American Business Network, etc. the same way they do Black Lives Matter, even though the same superficial critique of “being perceived as singling out a particular demographic” could be levied at any of them. People are projecting a lot of other unspoken beliefs onto Black Lives Matter groups that they don’t do for other community-centered organizations.

I'm not a fan of the hispanic heritage foundation and birthright Israel holds the same place in my view that an upside down cross holds in the eyes of a Christian. It's basically like evil incarnate and is nothing more than Israeli propoganda to try and convince young Jewish Americans to throw their lives away and go join the terror state. Alot of people have an issue with birthright. I mean how could you not unless you die hard like Israel and yet you aren't proud enough to show people the oppressed Arab populations?

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

I think it was the analogy itself which burned to the ground there.

It was a bad one to begin with Doesn't help that there are people who chant black lives matter and actually are racist towards others (e.g. would never allow their daughter to marry a white boy).

Sadly, I do not have a better slogan.

I mean apart from the absurdity of this argument as a reason to judge Black Lives Matter, there are actually regular public opinion surveys that reveal Republicans are disproportionately segregationist compared to normal Americans (something like 1 in 10 would have a problem with a close relative marrying a Black person, according to either Pew or Gallup, a big firm) — and to date I don’t know of any Black Lives Matter groups that support racial separatism... That was more of a 1960s issue.

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

And this is the fault of people being bigoted, not Black Lives Matter.

I don’t see people begrudging Catholic Charities USA, the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, the Hispanic Heritage Foundation, the Birthright Israel Foundation, the Irish American Business Network, etc. the same way they do Black Lives Matter, even though the same superficial critique of “being perceived as singling out a particular demographic” could be levied at any of them. People are projecting a lot of other unspoken beliefs onto Black Lives Matter groups that they don’t do for other community-centered organizations.

I'm not a fan of the hispanic heritage foundation and birthright Israel holds the same place in my view that an upside down cross holds in the eyes of a Christian. It's basically like evil incarnate and is nothing more than Israeli propoganda to try and convince young Jewish Americans to throw their lives away and go join the terror state. Alot of people have an issue with birthright. I mean how could you not unless you die hard like Israel and yet you aren't proud enough to show people the oppressed Arab populations?

I mean sure but are people going to just start banning every organization that isn’t called “Citizen Organization Number 486” or something? Where does the hysteria over nomenclature stop, if even something as innocuous as “Black Lives Matter” is considered controversial? I don’t really have a dog in any Birthright Israel or Hispanic Heritage controversy, my point was just that they’re not criticized for simply being based around a specific community as Black Lives Matter is.

[Rojava Free State]

It was a bad one to begin with Doesn't help that there are people who chant black lives matter and actually are racist towards others (e.g. would never allow their daughter to marry a white boy).

Sadly, I do not have a better slogan.

I mean apart from the absurdity of this argument as a reason to judge Black Lives Matter, there are actually regular public opinion surveys that reveal Republicans are disproportionately segregationist compared to normal Americans (something like 1 in 10 would have a problem with a close relative marrying a Black person, according to either Pew or Gallup, a big firm) — and to date I don’t know of any Black Lives Matter groups that support racial separatism... That was more of a 1960s issue.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... /80637498/

[Rojava Free State]

I'm not a fan of the hispanic heritage foundation and birthright Israel holds the same place in my view that an upside down cross holds in the eyes of a Christian. It's basically like evil incarnate and is nothing more than Israeli propoganda to try and convince young Jewish Americans to throw their lives away and go join the terror state. Alot of people have an issue with birthright. I mean how could you not unless you die hard like Israel and yet you aren't proud enough to show people the oppressed Arab populations?

I mean sure but are people going to just start banning every organization that isn’t called “Citizen Organization Number 486” or something? Where does the hysteria over nomenclature stop, if even something as innocuous as “Black Lives Matter” is considered controversial? I don’t really have a dog in any Birthright Israel or Hispanic Heritage controversy, my point was just that they’re not criticized for simply being based around a specific community.

I'm on the fence with black lives matter. On one hand you are right, ethnic communal organizations aren't alien to American soil, but on the other hand black people aren't the only people cops wantonly kill or abuse in America. If they were, my brother wouldn't have PTSD attacks everytime we drive past the park in town. For reasons I've gone over too many times.

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

I mean apart from the absurdity of this argument as a reason to judge Black Lives Matter, there are actually regular public opinion surveys that reveal Republicans are disproportionately segregationist compared to normal Americans (something like 1 in 10 would have a problem with a close relative marrying a Black person, according to either Pew or Gallup, a big firm) — and to date I don’t know of any Black Lives Matter groups that support racial separatism... That was more of a 1960s issue.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... /80637498/

Having an all-black meeting is not the same thing as saying you’re against interracial marriage or against all integration. It’s literally just a discussion group, and frankly I think it’s the library that’s discriminatory for kicking out a particular group from meeting because they want it to just be black people and people of color. Imagine if they kicked out a Narcotics Anonymous group for not including Alcoholics. It’s equally absurd.

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

I mean sure but are people going to just start banning every organization that isn’t called “Citizen Organization Number 486” or something? Where does the hysteria over nomenclature stop, if even something as innocuous as “Black Lives Matter” is considered controversial? I don’t really have a dog in any Birthright Israel or Hispanic Heritage controversy, my point was just that they’re not criticized for simply being based around a specific community.

I'm on the fence with black lives matter. On one hand you are right, ethnic communal organizations aren't alien to American soil, but on the other hand black people aren't the only people cops wantonly kill or abuse in America. If they were, my brother wouldn't have PTSD attacks everytime we drive past the park in town. For reasons I've gone over too many times.

Okay but it’s not the responsibility of private citizens to include an “ackshully there’s more to this issue than just Black people” disclaimer every single time they talk about police issues.

[Rojava Free State]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... /80637498/

Having an all-black meeting is not the same thing as saying you’re against interracial marriage or against all integration. It’s literally just a discussion group, and frankly I think it’s the library that’s discriminatory for kicking out a particular group from meeting because they want it to just be black people and people of color. Imagine if they kicked out a Narcotics Anonymous group for not including Alcoholics. It’s equally absurd.

Why should the meeting be racially segregated? How is a movement supposed to get white allies when it doesn't want them around in its meeting? You do understand if the roles were reversed ANYWHERE on earth, people would wanna kill someone, right? What if an Afrikaaner advocacy group wanted to have an all white afrikaaner meeting, is that ok?

[Rojava Free State]

I'm on the fence with black lives matter. On one hand you are right, ethnic communal organizations aren't alien to American soil, but on the other hand black people aren't the only people cops wantonly kill or abuse in America. If they were, my brother wouldn't have PTSD attacks everytime we drive past the park in town. For reasons I've gone over too many times.

Okay but it’s not the responsibility of private citizens to include an “ackshully there’s more to this issue than just Black people” disclaimer every single time they talk about police issues.

It isnt like they should be forced at gunpoint to do it but they would completely sway me onto their side if they did. I dont like that police violence is being turned into a black issue when it never was just a black issue. It's like turning drug trafficking into a latino issue. Or saying that being blown up in an explosion is an Arab issue.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... /80637498/

Having an all-black meeting is not the same thing as saying you’re against interracial marriage or against all integration. It’s literally just a discussion group, and frankly I think it’s the library that’s discriminatory for kicking out a particular group from meeting because they want it to just be black people and people of color. Imagine if they kicked out a Narcotics Anonymous group for not including Alcoholics. It’s equally absurd.

Two things can be equally absurd without being analogous. What I mean is that was a very bad analogy ...

EDIT: I am in fact the Analogy Police. 100% brutality free, I don't even carry mace.

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

Okay but it’s not the responsibility of private citizens to include an “ackshully there’s more to this issue than just Black people” disclaimer every single time they talk about police issues.

It isnt like they should be forced at gunpoint to do it but they would completely sway me onto their side if they did. I dont like that police violence is being turned into a black issue when it never was just a black issue. It's like turning drug trafficking into a latino issue. Or saying that being blown up is an Arab issue.

Good thing it’s not being turned into just a black issue, and Black Lives Matter has made police and criminal justice reform in general a hotter topic than anyone else was doing before...

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

Having an all-black meeting is not the same thing as saying you’re against interracial marriage or against all integration. It’s literally just a discussion group, and frankly I think it’s the library that’s discriminatory for kicking out a particular group from meeting because they want it to just be black people and people of color. Imagine if they kicked out a Narcotics Anonymous group for not including Alcoholics. It’s equally absurd.

Why should the meeting be racially segregated? How is a movement supposed to get white allies when it doesn't want them around in its meeting? You do understand if the roles were reversed ANYWHERE on earth, people would wanna kill someone, right? What if an Afrikaaner advocacy group wanted to have an all white afrikaaner meeting, is that ok?

I’m sorry, but do you have any proof this Black Lives Matter group is actually segregated or banning white people from participating in other activities?

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

Also where are the same complaints about culture-based college fraternities and sororities, or professional organizations like National Society of Black Engineers? Is it problematic for them to exclude white engineers?

[Rojava Free State]

Why should the meeting be racially segregated? How is a movement supposed to get white allies when it doesn't want them around in its meeting? You do understand if the roles were reversed ANYWHERE on earth, people would wanna kill someone, right? What if an Afrikaaner advocacy group wanted to have an all white afrikaaner meeting, is that ok?

I’m sorry, but do you have any proof this Black Lives Matter group is actually segregated or banning white people from participating in other activities?

They shouldn't be segregated against in ANY activity. Racial segregation is wrong. If I made a group called "Celebrating Cinco De Mayo" and then when some black guy tried to enter the conference hall I said "no you stay the fuck out. This is for esses only," do you think people would be cool with that or do you think I would end up like how Tupac ended up on the Las Vegas strip? What horrible thing would happen if BLM meetings included people of all races? Would people spontaneously combust?

[Rojava Free State]

Also where are the same complaints about culture-based college fraternities and sororities, or professional organizations like National Society of Black Engineers? Is it problematic for them to exclude white engineers?

Not a fan of those either. I wouldnt like it if someone told me "stay out, this is a whites only residency hall" so I wouldn't want the same done to white people or anyone else.

In my society, we recognize race as bullshit and end racism by ending racial segregation of any forms. My society though is just a thought experiment and instead we live in the United States of Ulster, so I gotta deal with racist bullshit from almost every group out there.

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

I’m sorry, but do you have any proof this Black Lives Matter group is actually segregated or banning white people from participating in other activities?

They shouldn't be segregated against in ANY activity. Racial segregation is wrong. If I made a group called "Celebrating Cinco De Mayo" and then when some black guy tried to enter the conference hall I said "no you stay the fuck out. This is for esses only," do you think people would be cool with that or do you think I would end up like how Tupac ended up on the Las Vegas strip? What horrible thing would happen if BLM meetings included people of all races? Would people spontaneously combust?

As I pointed out, people don’t have the same complaints about groups like the National Black Chamber of Commerce for not including white-owned businesses...