In Defence of All Lives Matter

[Centai Mal]

The MRM doesn't actively include fascists. That's a ridiculous understanding of the MRM, probably borne of conflating all anti-feminist movements as being the same.

If you paid attention you'd note that I'm happy to concede that my criticism of the flaws of BLM could apply to the MRM if you can demonstrate an example on an issue. The same nuance is being provided in both examples.

I think we all know there are a lot of fascist MRAs, and saying that is less ridiculous than saying BLM and organizations that organize along race are exclusionary of white people, the disabled, etc.

Also, as a disabled person - we get shot for completely different reasons than black people. I can't comply, I can't be respectful, in the middle of a mental health crisis. Black people die when they're complying and begging for their life. I can't even get a coherant thought train out, let alone say "sir, I can't breathe"

[Vassenor]

ALL LIVES MATTERhehe

Cite me one time a white man attempting to pass a phony $20 bill was knelt on by a cop for ten minutes until he died. Then get back to me.[/quote]

It wasn't even a fake bill. The teller just assumed it was.

[Alessandretta]

I've read a lot of articles by pro-Black Lives Matter groups about why they don't like the phrase All Lives Matter, but I've never seen anyone defend the All Lives Matter phrase instead. I am curious to see what supporters have to say on the matter. On the one hand, I understand that racial profiling and police brutality may be an issue but on the other, I see that law enforcement is necessary for any non-Utopian society and most police officers risk life and limb to save lives, not end them.

Any supporters of All Lives Matter are welcome here.

a sensible speech

[Rojava Free State]

The MRM doesn't actively include fascists. That's a ridiculous understanding of the MRM, probably borne of conflating all anti-feminist movements as being the same.

If you paid attention you'd note that I'm happy to concede that my criticism of the flaws of BLM could apply to the MRM if you can demonstrate an example on an issue. The same nuance is being provided in both examples.

I think we all know there are a lot of fascist MRAs, and saying that is less ridiculous than saying BLM and organizations that organize along race are exclusionary of white people, the disabled, etc.

BLM does exclude whites though. It's why they have had segregated meetings.

Thats a great way to lose the support of the majority, something that should be cultivated in order to stop police violence.

[Aureumterra]

The MRM doesn't actively include fascists. That's a ridiculous understanding of the MRM, probably borne of conflating all anti-feminist movements as being the same.

If you paid attention you'd note that I'm happy to concede that my criticism of the flaws of BLM could apply to the MRM if you can demonstrate an example on an issue. The same nuance is being provided in both examples.

I think we all know there are a lot of fascist MRAs, and saying that is less ridiculous than saying BLM and organizations that organize along race are exclusionary of white people, the disabled, etc.

There are MRAs who want an authoritarian state ruled by a strong central government inspired by ideas of popular uprising and intense nationalism to restore their country to what is perceived as a better time in history and rule through the principals of Caesarism built upon by Benito Mussolini and Gentile?

[Stanmenistan]

Sure, all lives matter. But right now, because they face far more violence than whites in the US, we’re focusing on black lives. You know, since we live in a country where jogging/driving/etc while black can get you killed and all that... yeah.

I wouldnt say far more. Disproportionately more but far is a little far.

A Black Guy jogging would probably be assumed to be Kenyan. I can't imagine any police officer of any background profiling a black person just for getting some exercise.

[Diarcesia]

Just found this post in Reddit that I think sheds a lot of light on what was otherwise left unsaid. My take in that is those who are not fully on board with BLM are afraid (justifiably) that what they're being told is that "black lives matter only/more". Unfortunately, the other side doesn't think that way (obviously) and what they have in mind is "black lives matter too/as well". This was not conveyed properly and thus they hurl accusations at one another.

Imagine that you're sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don't get any. So you say "I should get my fair share." And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, "everyone should get their fair share." Now, that's a wonderful sentiment -- indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad's smart-ass comment just dismissed you and didn't solve the problem that you still haven't gotten any!

The problem is that the statement "I should get my fair share" had an implicit "too" at the end: "I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else." But your dad's response treated your statement as though you meant "only I should get my fair share", which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that "everyone should get their fair share," while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out.

That's the situation of the "black lives matter" movement. Culture, laws, the arts, religion, and everyone else repeatedly suggest that all lives should matter. Clearly, that message already abounds in our society.

The problem is that, in practice, the world doesn't work the way. You see the film Nightcrawler? You know the part where Renee Russo tells Jake Gyllenhal that she doesn't want footage of a black or latino person dying, she wants news stories about affluent white people being killed? That's not made up out of whole cloth -- there is a news bias toward stories that the majority of the audience (who are white) can identify with. So when a young black man gets killed (prior to the recent police shootings), it's generally not considered "news", while a middle-aged white woman being killed is treated as news. And to a large degree, that is accurate -- young black men are killed in significantly disproportionate numbers, which is why we don't treat it as anything new. But the result is that, societally, we don't pay as much attention to certain people's deaths as we do to others. So, currently, we don't treat all lives as though they matter equally.

Just like asking dad for your fair share, the phrase "black lives matter" also has an implicit "too" at the end: it's saying that black lives should also matter. But responding to this by saying "all lives matter" is willfully going back to ignoring the problem. It's a way of dismissing the statement by falsely suggesting that it means "only black lives matter," when that is obviously not the case. And so saying "all lives matter" as a direct response to "black lives matter" is essentially saying that we should just go back to ignoring the problem.

TL;DR: The phrase "Black lives matter" carries an implicit "too" at the end; it's saying that black lives should also matter. Saying "all lives matter" is dismissing the very problems that the phrase is trying to draw attention to.

[Tornado Queendom]

At this point, NO lives matter in the eyes of BLM. I don't even think they care about the BLACK lives that they claim to say "matter", which is VERY hypocritical.

[Diarcesia]

At this point, NO lives matter in the eyes of BLM. I don't even think they care about the BLACK lives that they claim to say "matter", which is VERY hypocritical.

What made up your thoughts on that?

I thought that, yes, BLM is more of an advocacy by blacks and for blacks. However, that they don't mention other demographics does not imply their lives don't matter. If other "[GROUP] lives matter" movements spring up, they're free to collaborate with BLM to help ensure "all lives matter".

It's not like you gave any sources for your completely subjective perspective on BLM either. "Black Lives Matter doesn't care about poor, white, disabled people!" Source?

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.
We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

I.E, their inclusivity is race limited due to their race reductionist view. They argue against police brutality against *black* disabled people. Not Disabled people.

I'll also note that you're arguing that something exists (I.E, that BLM has statements about police violence against disabled people and so on). I'm arguing it doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on you, because i'm adopting the default position of skepticism. It's the "Invisible pink unicorn" thing.

I don't think you're going to get on here if you react this way to sources being requested by the way.

[US-SSR]

This from a guy I work with: "you know that feeling you had earlier this week when you were afraid to go out, afraid your home might be raided or your business burned down? That's what it's like to be black. You know that knee that was on George Floyd's neck? That knee is on us all the time."

Just sayin'.

[Centai Mal]

At this point, NO lives matter in the eyes of BLM. I don't even think they care about the BLACK lives that they claim to say "matter", which is VERY hypocritical.

So, any proof, or just like.... you just making claims?

Pretty sure BLM cares about black lives, seeing as they've been the ones leading peaceful protests. While white is still "normal", there's gonna be a designation

[Outer Sparta]

At this point, NO lives matter in the eyes of BLM. I don't even think they care about the BLACK lives that they claim to say "matter", which is VERY hypocritical.

That's a very disingenuous claim right there.

[Arzt0zka]

If you unironically disagree with the statement "all lives matter" you are a racist.

[Senkaku]

If you unironically disagree with the statement "all lives matter" you are a racist.

no one does

the whole point of black lives matter is that all lives DON'T and CAN'T matter until black lives matter (which they have not in the US for, oh, abt 500 years)

[Arzt0zka]

If you unironically disagree with the statement "all lives matter" you are a racist.

no one does

the whole point of black lives matter is that all lives DON'T and CAN'T matter until black lives matter (which they have not in the US for, oh, abt 500 years)

Someone saying the statement "all lives matter" does not contradict that statement, in fact it supports it. Try harder.

[Necroghastia]

no one does

the whole point of black lives matter is that all lives DON'T and CAN'T matter until black lives matter (which they have not in the US for, oh, abt 500 years)

Someone saying the statement "all lives matter" does not contradict that statement, in fact it supports it. Try harder.

Someone saying that in response to someone saying black lives matter is, generally speaking, trying to speak over the latter someone and not acknowledge the point they are trying to make. Try harder, and learn some fucking nuance while you're at it.

[Vassenor]

no one does

the whole point of black lives matter is that all lives DON'T and CAN'T matter until black lives matter (which they have not in the US for, oh, abt 500 years)

Someone saying the statement "all lives matter" does not contradict that statement, in fact it supports it. Try harder.

[PICTURE RELATED]

[Arzt0zka]

Someone saying the statement "all lives matter" does not contradict that statement, in fact it supports it. Try harder.

[PICTURE RELATED]

I am the cartoonist.

The other side is stupid and wrong.

The other side says something stupid.

I say something smart.

The other side gets mad or dismisses it.

I win the argument and make a smug expression or walk away.

The other side is mad.

Why are political cartoons like this such garbage on both sides of the political spectrum?

[Vassenor]

[PICTURE RELATED]

I am the cartoonist.

The other side is stupid and wrong.

The other side says something stupid.

I say something smart.

The other side gets mad or dismisses it.

I win the argument and make a smug expression or walk away.

The other side is mad.

Why are political cartoons like this such garbage on both sides of the political spectrum?

So you have no response to the argument actually being made.

[Arzt0zka]

I am the cartoonist.

The other side is stupid and wrong.

The other side says something stupid.

I say something smart.

The other side gets mad or dismisses it.

I win the argument and make a smug expression or walk away.

The other side is mad.

Why are political cartoons like this such garbage on both sides of the political spectrum?

So you have no response to the argument actually being made.

It isn't an argument, it's a straw man that was specifically created to derail arguments. Make your own point.

[Necroghastia]

So you have no response to the argument actually being made.

It isn't an argument, it's a straw man that was specifically created to derail arguments. Make your own point.

A point like the one you oh-so-conveniently ignored?

Someone saying the statement "all lives matter" does not contradict that statement, in fact it supports it. Try harder.

Someone saying that in response to someone saying black lives matter is, generally speaking, trying to speak over the latter someone and not acknowledge the point they are trying to make. Try harder, and learn some fucking nuance while you're at it.

[Vassenor]

So you have no response to the argument actually being made.

It isn't an argument, it's a straw man that was specifically created to derail arguments. Make your own point.

So shouting ALL LIVES MATTER when someone talks about how they're made to feel like Black Lives Don't Matter isn't trying to talk over them?

[Arzt0zka]

It isn't an argument, it's a straw man that was specifically created to derail arguments. Make your own point.

So shouting ALL LIVES MATTER when someone talks about how they're made to feel like Black Lives Don't Matter isn't trying to talk over them?

Yes, because you aren't shouting it and over the internet they can be quite clear on twitter and other areas due to the platforms amplifying their voices. So saying a harmless statement that only racists would oppose like all lives matter isn't shouting over them.

[Vassenor]

So shouting ALL LIVES MATTER when someone talks about how they're made to feel like Black Lives Don't Matter isn't trying to talk over them?

Yes, because you aren't shouting it and over the internet they can be quite clear on twitter and other areas due to the platforms amplifying their voices. So saying a harmless statement that only racists would oppose like all lives matter isn't shouting over them.

Who is actually opposing all lives matter?

[Necroghastia]

So shouting ALL LIVES MATTER when someone talks about how they're made to feel like Black Lives Don't Matter isn't trying to talk over them?

Yes, because you aren't shouting it and over the internet they can be quite clear on twitter and other areas due to the platforms amplifying their voices. So saying a harmless statement that only racists would oppose like all lives matter isn't shouting over them.

Metaphorically, it is. It's a way to not have to engage with the point being made.