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Battle for the Beehive(A New Zealand Election Thread)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Who do you support?

Labour
38
38%
National
21
21%
Green Party
14
14%
NZ First
9
9%
ACT NZ
5
5%
Maori Party
4
4%
New Conservatives
9
9%
TOP
0
No votes
Other
1
1%
 
Total votes : 101

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Shrillland
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Battle for the Beehive(A New Zealand Election Thread)

Postby Shrillland » Thu May 21, 2020 11:05 pm

A little earlier than I usually put up threads like this, but with the big news that came out of New Zealand today, I can accept a mostly dormant thread until July. As some of you know, especially if you live down in NZ, elections are coming up on Saturday, October 17, and what seemed for a while to be a close run between the Nationals and Jacinda Ardern's Labour Party is quickly turning into a Labour blowout, at least if the current polls are anything to go by. Even after a mid-level sex scandal had brought sagging numbers to Labour, Ardern's handling of COVID-19, which has been better than most other nations(helped, no doubt, by the fact that Aotearoa's a group of islands in the relative middle of nowhere, which makes cordoning the nation off an easy task) has led to personal support numbers for her soaring to 63% and Labour as a whole averaging 58%, while the National Party Leader, Simon Bridges, had an approval rating of 5%. That's not a typo, either.

It got so bad, and dissent within National ranks so high due to both his unpopularity and his refusal to allow Winston Peters' New Zealand First Party(currently in the government with Labour) into a coalition government if needed, that an emergency leadership caucus was held today(May 22), and Bridges was unseated by Todd Muller, who had the endorsement of former PM and National giant Jim Bolger: https://ca.yahoo.com/news/zealand-opposition-leader-ousted-pm-042048150.html

Muller didn't really have aspirations for leadership before now, having previously been a dairy executive before becoming MP for Bay of Plenty in 2014. Now, he's being called to try to stave off what looks increasingly likely to be a Landslide Labour Majority Government in September.

On top of this, there are two referenda going on in September as well: A non-binding proposal on legalising recreational marijuana, and a binding measure to legalise euthansia. This thread can be for discussing those as well.

Now, on to how the vote will go. New Zealand has an MMP Parliament of 120 members: 72 will be elected via FPTP from constituencies, and 48 will be elected via closed-list PR with a 5% threshold. Overhang seats are also a thing(seats added in case a party gets more constituency seats than the amount of list seats they're entitled to), but they aren't often added. Seven of the constituency seats are special Maori constituencies reserved for those who are registered on a special Maori electoral roll(Maori can choose whether they want to be on the regular rolls or the Maori rolls).

Now, here are the most likely or best-known parties:

Labour led by current PM Jacinda Ardern: Centre-left, Social Democratic

National Party(Nats) led by Judith Collins: Centre-right, Liberal Conservative, Economic Liberal

Green Party led by James Shaw and Marama Davidson: Left Wing, Green Policy, Social Democracy

New Zealand First led by Winston Peters: Centrist, Populist, Social Conservative(by NZ Standards), Nationalist

ACT New Zealand led by David Seymour: Right Wing, Libertarian, Classical Liberal

Maori Party(Te Pāti Māori) led by Debbie Ngarewa-Packer and John Tamihere: Cenre-left, Maori Rights and Advocacy

New Conservatives led by Leighton Baker: Right to Far Right, Right Populist, Fiscal Conservative, Social Conservative

The Opportunities Party(TOP) led by Geoff Simmons: Centrist, Radical Centrist, Environmentalist

So, who do you support? I'm standing with Labour, Ardern's managed to handle and master every storm that's come her way so far, and I think she's the best way forward for the next three years. As for the ballot measures, I'm in favour of both legalised marijuana and euthanasia, nothing the government should get in the way of.

EDIT: National Leader Todd Muller has himself resigned on July 14 after saying that the job was taking a greater toll on his health than he had expected. A new leader shall be decided later today.

EDIT 2: Judith Collins is now National Leader.

EDIT 3: The elections were postponed on August 17 to October 17 after Covid reappeared in Auckland triggering a return to a national lockdown.
Last edited by Shrillland on Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:06 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Postby Costa Fierro » Fri May 22, 2020 12:28 am

Even after a mid-level sex scandal had brought sagging numbers to Labour


What "sex scandal" was this?

I'm standing with Labour, Ardern's managed to handle and master every storm that's come her way so far, and I think she's the best way forward for the next three years.


I mean I don't think there's been a Prime Minister that's handled as much as she's been forced to handle given the events of the last twelve and a bit months. However, before that, government support was flagging as unfortunately trying to lead a progressive government with social conservatives like New Zealand First went about as well as could be expected. So far most of the promises made in 2017 have either been half-arsed or not fulfilled entirely, and I fully believe the only reason she's perceived to be as popular as she is, is thanks to all the crises she's had to deal with, especially the pandemic, which I think has saved her bacon.

A Labour-Greens government would be ideal, but if current polling continues (and I don't believe it will), it's not looking likely.
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Postby Drongonia » Fri May 22, 2020 12:34 am

I'm standing with New Conservative.

To answer this
Costa Fierro wrote:What "sex scandal" was this?

It was when a Labour party staffer sexually assaulted members of the Young Labour movement during a camp or something.

National is a joke, Muller is an innefectual unknown. I absolutely can't stand Jacinda Ardern but both sides of the mainstream in New Zealand are much the same. Labour will move us further to the left and National will just keep with whatever the status quo is at their time of election.
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Postby Costa Fierro » Fri May 22, 2020 1:22 am

Drongonia wrote:I'm standing with New Conservative.


Yikes.

It was when a Labour party staffer sexually assaulted members of the Young Labour movement during a camp or something.


Ah, that scandal.

National is a joke, Muller is an innefectual unknown. I absolutely can't stand Jacinda Ardern but both sides of the mainstream in New Zealand are much the same. Labour will move us further to the left and National will just keep with whatever the status quo is at their time of election.


Must be a fun time for you guys right now.
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Postby Nakena » Fri May 22, 2020 1:40 am

I would support Jacinda Ardern from Labour for obvious reasons. Specifically her swift and decisive handling of the corona-crisis.

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Jedi Council
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Postby Jedi Council » Fri May 22, 2020 1:44 am

Hmm, hadn't heard about Bridges being tossed.

I am not entirely surprised, from what little I saw/read of him he did seem pretty, well, meh is probably the beat word I have.

From my understanding, Ardern had done a good job as Prime Minister; I watched the events of the Christchurch shooting unfold live on the news and her handling that day and in the aftermath was excellent. She seems to have done well regarding Covid-19 as well. Aside from these events, I am not totally aware of her specific policies, apart from their broad ideological context.

As for the New Conservatives, I did not realize they were a thing until now. I will have to look in to them, I was only aware of ACT and National in terms of the conservative movement.

I would vote Labour in all likelihood.
Last edited by Jedi Council on Fri May 22, 2020 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Drongonia » Fri May 22, 2020 1:46 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Drongonia wrote:I'm standing with New Conservative.

Yikes.

Don't care didn't ask plus you're cringe.
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Postby Jedi Council » Fri May 22, 2020 1:48 am

Drongonia wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:Yikes.

Don't care didn't ask plus you're cringe.

It's the first page my man, lower the flame thrower please.
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Postby Drongonia » Fri May 22, 2020 1:49 am

Jedi Council wrote:
Drongonia wrote:Don't care didn't ask plus you're cringe.

It's the first page my man, lower the flame thrower please.

I hope calling someone cringe for "yikes"ing at my views doesn't count as flaming, that's a pretty low bar.
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Jedi Council
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Postby Jedi Council » Fri May 22, 2020 1:53 am

Drongonia wrote:
Jedi Council wrote:It's the first page my man, lower the flame thrower please.

I hope calling someone cringe for "yikes"ing at my views doesn't count as flaming, that's a pretty low bar.


All I am saying is that starting the personal attacks on the first page is not a good sign.

Just leaving it at that.
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Postby Costa Fierro » Fri May 22, 2020 1:55 am

Drongonia wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:Yikes.

Don't care didn't ask plus you're cringe.


Always a civil bunch, the hard right.

Jedi Council wrote:I am not entirely surprised, from what little I saw/read of him he did seem pretty, well, meh is probably the beat word I have.


It's a bit more than that. Bridges went from gaffe to gaffe, especially with the recent criticisms against the government which really turned public opinion against him and tainted National, and I don't doubt that there would have been movements within National long before Bridges was dropped like a hot brick. Problem was that most of National's front bench either didn't have big enough metaphorical testicles to launch a challenge against him until it became clear that the public literally hated him, or were too polarising. God knows what would have happened if Judith Collins became leader.

Probably about a month ago or so he posted on social media lambasting the government's move to Level 3 as opposed going straight into Level 2. I have never seen any politician so readily hated, and it was actual hate, on social media. And this is a country where some angry Boomer farmer mowed a message into a field telling the PM to "fuck off back to Moscow", or where an entire city lost its collective shit because Santa wasn't white.

From my understanding, Ardern had done a good job as Prime Minister; I watched the events of the Christchurch shooting unfold live on the news and her handling that day and in the aftermath was excellent. She seems to have done well regarding Covid-19 as well. Aside from these events, I am not totally aware of her specific policies, apart from their broad ideological context.


It's been lacklustre for the most part. Lots of disappointment on the policy front.
Last edited by Costa Fierro on Fri May 22, 2020 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Slavakino » Fri May 22, 2020 1:55 am

I still don't get the support for Jacinda's government. Only good thing she did was handling corona.
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Postby Costa Fierro » Fri May 22, 2020 1:57 am

Slavakino wrote:I still don't get the support for Jacinda's government. Only good thing she did was handling corona.


That's basically it. COVID-19 saved the government although she was reasonably popular beforehand. Preferred PM polls always had her in double figures ahead of Simon Bridges, who usually languished in single figure territory alongside Judith Collins and Winston Peters.
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Fri May 22, 2020 1:58 am

Slavakino wrote:I still don't get the support for Jacinda's government. Only good thing she did was handling corona.


She did give birth in office. Is that a world first?
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Postby Slavakino » Fri May 22, 2020 2:00 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Slavakino wrote:I still don't get the support for Jacinda's government. Only good thing she did was handling corona.


That's basically it. COVID-19 saved the government although she was reasonably popular beforehand. Preferred PM polls always had her in double figures ahead of Simon Bridges, who usually languished in single figure territory alongside Judith Collins and Winston Peters.

So basically everyone is supporting her because of one good factor as opposed to others? What a dogshit way to go about politics Jesus.
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Fri May 22, 2020 2:04 am

Slavakino wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
That's basically it. COVID-19 saved the government although she was reasonably popular beforehand. Preferred PM polls always had her in double figures ahead of Simon Bridges, who usually languished in single figure territory alongside Judith Collins and Winston Peters.

So basically everyone is supporting her because of one good factor as opposed to others? What a dogshit way to go about politics Jesus.


It's a pretty big one AND it's not finished yet.

What's your main beef with her government?
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Postby Jedi Council » Fri May 22, 2020 2:06 am

Alright been doing reading from the New Conservative site. The first red flag should have been that Family Policy was listed first on the website. There a few gems just from that section.

The traditional definition of marriage goes back thousands of years and spans all cultures


This is just plain inaccurate.

"We believe that couples should undergo pre-marriage or relationship training prior to entering into marriage – and that this will be State funded and highly encouraged."

What even is this? What happened to being for personal responsibility? Now we need "relationship training" before marriage? I would expect this to be satire.

Family Planning should be required to include abstinence and long term relationships as the option with the statistically proven best outcomes for all in their syllabus, or lose their funding.


Flagrant assumption.

New Conservative believes research that shows gender identity issues are psychological and not physiological is clear, and therefore gender dysphoria should be dealt with as any other psychological issue. Gender identity should not be taught in schools, apart from offering help for those struggling in that area. Students should use bathrooms, changing rooms and participate in sport based on their biological gender.


To borrow from Costa Fierro, "Yikes."

New Conservative would introduce legislation requiring internet service providers to block access to explicit adult websites by default. This would mean that all porn in New Zealand would be blocked or filtered by default, and would only be made available to individuals when an ISP receives a request to unblock it from a customer with appropriate age ID. Opt in rather than opt out.


There goes my weekends.

We believe that parents should be notified for all medical procedures on their children 16 years and under, including but not limited to abortion and immunisations, etc.


Because patient confidentiality is overrated, right?

All in all, definitely not the Party for me. I had no idea New Zealand had a right-wing fringe, but chalk that up to by own ignorance.
Last edited by Jedi Council on Fri May 22, 2020 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Liriena » Fri May 22, 2020 2:11 am

First off, the New Conservatives sound like a bunch of cunts.

Fingers crossed for a Labour victory, of course.
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Postby Liriena » Fri May 22, 2020 2:14 am

Slavakino wrote:I still don't get the support for Jacinda's government. Only good thing she did was handling corona.

It's almost as if the pandemic is a global crisis which threatens the lives of millions and the stability of our societies, and a good handling of it is, ergo, a big feat.
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Fri May 22, 2020 2:15 am

Jedi Council wrote:
Family Planning should be required to include abstinence and long term relationships as the option with the statistically proven best outcomes for all in their syllabus, or lose their funding.


Flagrant assumption.


You missed it.

abstinence and long term relationships as the option


Get married and never have sex. Statistics show ...
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Postby Jedi Council » Fri May 22, 2020 2:19 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Jedi Council wrote:
Family Planning should be required to include abstinence and long term relationships as the option with the statistically proven best outcomes for all in their syllabus, or lose their funding.


Flagrant assumption.


You missed it.

abstinence and long term relationships as the option


Get married and never have sex. Statistics show ...


My contention was their broad generalization that states these strategies offer "the best outcomes" was an assumption.

If they are talking about STI's or Abortions, sure, statistics might be on their side, but saying those strategies offer "the best outcomes for all" is an extremely vague, and most likely incorrect statement.

Glad it will be an option, but it should be taught properly.
Last edited by Jedi Council on Fri May 22, 2020 2:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Slavakino » Fri May 22, 2020 2:22 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Slavakino wrote:So basically everyone is supporting her because of one good factor as opposed to others? What a dogshit way to go about politics Jesus.


It's a pretty big one AND it's not finished yet.

What's your main beef with her government?

Her government is dogshit and the policies proposed are never implemented or are outright dogshit. National is also doing a shit job by the looks of it
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Postby Jedi Council » Fri May 22, 2020 2:23 am

Slavakino wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
It's a pretty big one AND it's not finished yet.

What's your main beef with her government?

Her government is dogshit and the policies proposed are never implemented or are outright dogshit. National is also doing a shit job by the looks of it

Her government is dogshit is not really an argument, it's an opinion.

Apart from not implementing policies, what else makes her government dogshit?
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Fri May 22, 2020 2:29 am

Jedi Council wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
You missed it.

abstinence and long term relationships as the option


Get married and never have sex. Statistics show ...


My contention was their broad generalization that states these strategies offer "the best outcomes" was an assumption.


Oh granted. They might have a study from some US "university" which shows that you know. Not the sort of study that deserves to be called a "paper" of course.

One more time. Stay abstinent before marriage. Get married. Stay abstinent forever ...


If they are talking about STI's or Abortions, sure, statistics might be on their side, but saying those strategies offer "the best outcomes for all" is an extremely vague, and most likely incorrect statement.

Glad it will be an option, but it should be taught properly.


Which one are you glad of being an option? Abstinence or long-term relationship?
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Postby Slavakino » Fri May 22, 2020 2:32 am

Jedi Council wrote:
Slavakino wrote:Her government is dogshit and the policies proposed are never implemented or are outright dogshit. National is also doing a shit job by the looks of it

Her government is dogshit is not really an argument, it's an opinion.

Apart from not implementing policies, what else makes her government dogshit?

One thing I absolutely hate her for is the handling of Christchurch which was awful and only supported by fudds or people who know nothing about firearms. And the results of innocent people being sent to jail for "terrorism".
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