What is a good Christian?

[Geneviev]

I must admit...watching some of you Christians making declarations about who is a Christian in this thread is rather funny.

It is funny for anyone who isn't a Christian being excluded from that definition. Because that is being condemned to hell that you believe in.

[Salus Maior]

Once more, I AM a Catholic, and there is a difference between admitting the wrongs that have been done in the name of the Catholic church and not being one.

And you can still go climb a tree.

Do we literally have to go through all of the teachings of the Church, asking you if you profess belief in them, just to prove that you’re in error? Lmao

Kat's faith however she decides to define it isn't the subject of this thread.

[Neanderthaland]

They also have a very long history, so it seems likely that there have been a few scandals in there somewhere.

Still, let's not make the best the enemy of the good. They're a far more peaceful religion than most religions. And it's not unjust to generalize them as "non-violent."

I've always wondered; are Jainism, Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism etc. even religions? They're not exactly worshiping a God or two.

I mean, you can call them "philosophy" if you want. Some people certainly try to do that.

But there's a lot of supernatural baggage packed in there that seems to go beyond the preview of you conundrums of philosophy.

[Atheris]

I'm curious as to why you linked this.

You mean, aside from the fact that they were veering towards the exact subject of the thread to which I linked?

Oh, shit, right. My bad. It's 30 minutes past midnight, I should be working on one of my fics, but instead I decided to hop on NS.

[Andechs-Sisebut]

Katganistan is the epitome of a nominal Catholic. He/she (don’t know, don’t really care) uses the fact that they’re a member of the Church to validate sin. Imagine something like “I’m a Catholic and I think such and such is alright”.

And yet I am not the topic of this thread, so kindly don't make it about me.

Don’t falsely call yourself a Catholic then.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Katganistan is the epitome of a nominal Catholic. He/she (don’t know, don’t really care) uses the fact that they’re a member of the Church to validate sin. Imagine something like “I’m a Catholic and I think such and such is alright”.

And yet I am not the topic of this thread, so kindly don't make it about me.

Didn’t stop you from engaging in conversation about yourself. I imagine someone so strict about the topic would just ignore posts about ones person. Nevertheless I don’t care.

[Neutraligon]

I must admit...watching some of you Christians making declarations about who is a Christian in this thread is rather funny.

It is funny for anyone who isn't a Christian being excluded from that definition. Because that is being condemned to hell that you believe in.

And here I thought it as your god who decided that. Wasn't there something about not commenting on the splinter in the eye of someone else while ignoring the stake in your own?

[Katganistan]

Katganistan is the epitome of a nominal Catholic. He/she (don’t know, don’t really care) uses the fact that they’re a member of the Church to validate sin. Imagine something like “I’m a Catholic and I think such and such is alright”.

Is abortion even against the Bible?

No, actually. It's not. Especially since there is a passage about "bitter waters" you can look up, oh and about smashing baby's brains out, and paying the husband if one causes the death of their wife's fetus.

There is no passage in the Bible that explicitly bans it, but several about killing firstborns.

[Atheris]

And yet I am not the topic of this thread, so kindly don't make it about me.

Don’t falsely call yourself a Catholic then.

Kat follows the Catholic church and upholds the Testament. You do not get to decide if someone is following a religion are not, you do not have that power. You're insulting Kat and her religion to her face. Go vent somewhere else if you need to get rid of the static electricity you got metaphorically rubbing your socks against the fucking carpet. You are not acting like a Christian.

[Godular]

And yet I am not the topic of this thread, so kindly don't make it about me.

Don’t falsely call yourself a Catholic then.

Don't go saying whether anyone is or isn't something just because you happen to disagree with them.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Do we literally have to go through all of the teachings of the Church, asking you if you profess belief in them, just to prove that you’re in error? Lmao

Kat's faith however she decides to define it isn't the subject of this thread.

I’ll reiterate what I said to Kat, I don’t care.

[The Alma Mater]

Is abortion even against the Bible?

No, actually. It's not. Especially since there is a passage about "bitter waters" you can look up, oh and about smashing baby's brains out, and paying the husband if one causes the death of their wife's fetus.

There is no passage in the Bible that explicitly bans it, but several about killing firstborns.

And many about killing women who have a high chance of being with child with no regard whatsoever for the unborn.

[Neanderthaland]

And yet I am not the topic of this thread, so kindly don't make it about me.

Don’t falsely call yourself a Catholic then.

There's no way to escape Catholicism, mate.

Even being an atheist merely makes you a "bad Catholic."

[Geneviev]

It is funny for anyone who isn't a Christian being excluded from that definition. Because that is being condemned to hell that you believe in.

And here I thought it as your god ho decided that.

It is. But there are people who claim to represent him here.

[Andechs-Sisebut]

Don’t falsely call yourself a Catholic then.

Kat follows the Catholic church and upholds the Testament. You do not get to decide if someone is following a religion are not, you do not have that power. You're insulting Kat and her religion to her face. Go vent somewhere else if you need to get rid of the static electricity you got metaphorically rubbing your socks against the carpet.

No, she doesn’t. And she has been taken to task for it by most Catholics on NS.

[Andechs-Sisebut]

Don’t falsely call yourself a Catholic then.

There's no way to escape Catholicism, mate.

Even being an atheist merely makes you a "bad Catholic."

It makes you an apostate.

[Neutraligon]

And here I thought it as your god ho decided that.

It is. But there are people who claim to represent him here.

Funny since I thought there was also something about no one knowing the mind of god.

[Godular]

Oh, and Good Christian, since I done stuck my nose in here as an extreme outsider:

1. Golden Rule
2. Judges not
3. Pays attention to that bit about God Helping Those Who Help Themselves, and actually try to do things rather than expect God to do the work for 'em.

(Like those idiots that would go to church even during the lockdown thinking God would protect them from the Coronavirus... I'm sure God would protect you better if ya just stayed the fuck home)

[Neanderthaland]

There's no way to escape Catholicism, mate.

Even being an atheist merely makes you a "bad Catholic."

It makes you an apostate.

You're no fun.

[The Free Joy State]

It is. But there are people who claim to represent him here.

Funny since I thought there was also something about no one knowing the mind of god.

There is. Some people seem to think He added "except them, them and them" in parentheses.

[Atheris]

Kat follows the Catholic church and upholds the Testament. You do not get to decide if someone is following a religion are not, you do not have that power. You're insulting Kat and her religion to her face. Go vent somewhere else if you need to get rid of the static electricity you got metaphorically rubbing your socks against the carpet.

No, she doesn’t. And she has been taken to task for it by most Catholics on NS.

Kat's a better Christian than me. I doubt Kat has ever wavered from worshiping the Lord, and if she has, she certainly never acts like it. What you need to be a true Christian is to treat others with respect, obey the Trinity and the Father's commandments, and just generally not be a dick. You're failing at two of those, and just generally being a hypocrite. Kat's doing all three. Shush.

[Godular]

And here I thought it as your god ho decided that.

It is. But there are people who claim to represent him here.

'There's a Sin for That!'(tm)

[Andechs-Sisebut]

No, but this confused mess that you present to us is the reason why we have the Church. What recourse, then, do we have? Well, I am Catholic and Joohan is Orthodox, we should therefore appeal to the Fathers and Teachers of the Church.

1. Psalm 137:9 — The Catholic Douay Rheims reads, ‘The Lord will repay for me: thy mercy, O Lord, endureth for ever: O despise not the work of thy hands.’. But I assume you actually mean this verse in Protestant Bibles (it is 136:9 in the Douay Rheims), ‘Blessed shall he be who takes your little one and a dashes them against the rock!’ Firstly, this is not God, but King David the Prophet, though the Psalms are inspired. We will forego the spiritual dimension because it isn’t relevant to your contention. God does fulfil this prayer through Cyrus the Great and Darius, that destroy Babylon that held captive the Jews. ‘Thy nakedness shall be discovered, and thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and no man shall resist me.’ (Isaiah 47:3) And, ‘There is no peace to the wicked, saith the Lord.’ (Isaiah 48:22) (Really Isaiah 47-50). We revisit Job, ‘the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away: as it hath pleased the Lord so is it done: blessed be the name of the Lord.’ (Job 1:21) You have not provided why God has done evil here? Rather, he punished Babylon and set free the Jews.
2. Exodus 22:18 — This reads, ‘Wizards thou shalt not suffer to live.’ More commonly translated as ‘Thou shalt not suffer the witch to live.’ St. Thomas Aquinas (which I think Joohan won’t mind in this case) writes in Chapter 147 of Of God and His Creatures,

Hereby is excluded the error of those who say that corporal punishments are unlawful, and quote in support of their error such texts as, Thou shalt not kill (Exod. xx, 13): Let both grow until the harvest (Matt. xiii, 30). But these are frivolous allegations. For the same law which says, Thou shalt not kill, adds afterwards: Thou shalt not suffer poisoners (maleficos, φαρμακούς) to live (Exod. xxii, 18)

And in the Apostolic Constitutions, Book Seven, p. 466, The Prohibition of Conjuring, Murder of Infants, Perjury, and False Witness,

Thou shalt not use magic. Thou shalt not use witchcraft; for He says, « Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. » (Exodus 22:18) Thou shall not slay thy child by causing abortion, nor kill that which is begotten; for « everything that is shaped, and has received a soul from God, if it be slain, shall be avenged, as being unjustly destroyed. »

What do we know from all this? That ‘witches’ are evil-doers, poisoners (metaphorically and literally), wicked people that make pacts with Satan and demons (See: Catholic Encyclopedia: Witchcraft). Why, then, shouldn’t lawful authority put these people to death if it is God’s whim, who can say that it is evil?
3. Proverbs 23:13-14 — This translates as, ‘Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell.’ Rather straightforward, discipline your child. It is written by St. Clement of Alexandria in The Instructor,

In fine, the system He pursues to inspire fear is the source of salvation. And it is the prerogative of goodness to save: “The mercy of the Lord is on all flesh, while He reproves, corrects, and teaches as a shepherd His flock. He pities those who receive His instruction, and those who eagerly seek union with Him.” And with such guidance He guarded the six hundred thousand footmen that were brought together in the hardness of heart in which they were found; scourging, pitying, striking, healing, in compassion and discipline: “For according to the greatness of His mercy, so is His rebuke.” For it is indeed noble not to sin; but it is good also for the sinner to repent; just as it is best to be always in good health, but well to recover from disease. So He commands by Solomon: “Strike thou thy son with the rod, that thou mayest deliver his soul from death.” And again: “Abstain not from chastising thy son, but correct him with the rod; for he will not die.”

And in the Apostolic Constitutiond, Book IV, Sec. II — On Domestic and Social Life,

Ye fathers, educate your children in the Lord, bringing them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord; and teach them such trades as are agreeable and suitable to the word, lest they by such opportunity become extravagant, and continue without punishment from their parents, and so get relaxation before their time, and go astray from that which is good. Wherefore be not afraid to reprove them, and to teach them wisdom with severity. For your corrections will not kill them, but rather preserve them. As Solomon says somewhere in the book of Wisdom: “Chasten thy son, and he will refresh thee; so wilt thou have good hope of him. Thou verily shalt smite him with the rod, and shall deliver his soul from death.” And again, says the same Solomon thus, “He that spareth his rod, hateth his son;” and afterwards, “Beat his sides whilst he is an infant, lest he be hardened and disobey thee.”2960 He, therefore, that neglects to admonish and instruct his own son, hates his own child. Do you therefore teach your children the word of the Lord. Bring them under with cutting stripes, and make them subject from their infancy, teaching them the Holy Scriptures, which are Christian and divine, and delivering to them every sacred writing, “not giving them such liberty that they get the mastery,” and act against your opinion, not permitting them to club together for a treat with their equals. For so they will be turned to disorderly courses, and will fall into fornication; and if this happen by the carelessness of their parents, those that begat them will be guilty of their souls. For if the offending children get into the company of debauched persons by the negligence of those that begat them, they will not be punished alone by themselves; but their parents also will be condemned on their account. For this cause endeavour, at the time when they are of an age fit for marriage, to join them in wedlock, and settle them together, lest in the heat and fervour of their age their course of life become dissolute, and you be required to give an account by the Lord God in the day of judgment.

None of these things are evil, not one. One of them isn’t even God commanding anyone to dash ‘them against a rock!’ Babylon, however, was destroyed to free the Jews from captivity and their enemies yoke. Killing people of all ages, male or female, was common in ancient warfare. As a sidenote, nowhere in the Bible can I find it endorsing ‘abuse’ of a man’s wife, I don’t care if some random denomination misinterprets scripture nor for Steven Anderson.



A Good Christian is necessarily a good person, that is a moral person. But what does Mark record? ‘And Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? None is good but one, that is God.’ (Mark 10:18) No person is perfect, and thus no person is ‘good’. This is what I say, men may be good but only by participation of God's goodness. I’ll just reiterate what Joohan said.

Therefore, a ‘Good Christian’ is someone that follows Goodness itself and is thus virtuous. They may stray, fall away, but if they return pertinent, they will be called Holy. St. Andrew Wouters was a Martyr of Gorkum (1572), he was a notoriously scandalous, horrible priest; a fornicator, but not a heretic. He joined his brother priests in ‘the valley of the shadow of death’, and was subsequently hanged. He proved in his last moments that he could, and was, a Good Christian, clinging to the Lord. This cannot be said of his dissolute life.

As for your reduction, I’m afraid much is left out in your assessment, and your assessment is even wrong (for instance, there are more commandments than the Decalogue, they’re summary, then there is Christ’s Summary of the Law). Your conception of ‘Love’ is deficient and faulty. If you do not have good will to your neighbour, then you truly do not love them. We force the addict to leave his addiction, we do not tolerate it because of a faulty sense of ‘love’. We conform men to Truth, to medicine, that is love. When you lie to a man, you do love him. We also must be conscious by what we mean by ‘force’. No man is allowed to coerce (through violence and other such means) someone to the Faith, they must assent freely.

And you dare call my post a mess.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

You excuse killing people, if you believe God commands it (let's find it in that mammoth mess of a post):

What do we know from all this? That ‘witches’ are evil-doers, poisoners (metaphorically and literally), wicked people that make pacts with Satan and demons (See: Catholic Encyclopedia: Witchcraft). Why, then, shouldn’t lawful authority put these people to death if it is God’s whim, who can say that it is evil?

The very concept is dangerously expansive (murder anyone considered evil and be considered clean).

You also excuse beating children.

And -- though you call for people to "assent freely" to conversion, say this can be done by force (although God gave people free-will for a reason).

Beat a child, slay your "evil neighbour", and force your other neighbour to convert against his will (by lying?)...

When you lie to a man, you do love him.

So, lying is permitted -- if by Good Christians^TM -- too?

Certainly, this concept of Good Christianity is much different to the one I was raised with.

This is whole lot of nothing, with so many words you say exactly the same things without addressing what I said. In the final case you are just obtuse and jumping at an error in my writing.

[Geneviev]

It is. But there are people who claim to represent him here.

Funny since I thought there was also something about no one knowing the mind of god.

Sure. Some people haven't heard of that part yet, though. Or they just consider themselves the exception.

[Atheris]

Funny since I thought there was also something about no one knowing the mind of god.

Sure. Some people haven't heard of that part yet, though. Or they just consider themselves the exception.

Oh, if I had a penny for every Christian who considered themselves the exception, I'd have enough pennies to buy off Congress to stop making pennies.