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India vs. China - Who Would Win in a War?

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What would the result be?

Chinese Victory, Indian Defeat
41
39%
Indian Victory, Chinese Defeat
13
12%
Chinese Tactical Victory, Strategic Defeat
25
24%
Indian Tactical Victory, Strategic Defeat
6
6%
Don't Know/Inconclusive
20
19%
 
Total votes : 105

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Baja California Autonoma
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Postby Baja California Autonoma » Sun May 17, 2020 9:43 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:It ignores the cultural context (imperialism is not the Chinese way) and the economic realities of the business


China had thousands of years of imperialism, maybe wiki has articles on that. It was literally the Chinese way for thousands of years.

Why wouldnt the Chinese economically exploit people? What makes them immune to such motivations?

What economic realities? It's clear that the Chinese leverage enormous investment on risky conditions(Myanmar wont own the major pipeline going from Indian Ocean to China, they've basically leased the land and on certain conditions the territory legally is China's). The Chinese bring their own workers in their development projects, it's a major source of contention in Malaysia and South Africa, because the locals don't even get paid to build the damn thing. Chinese are not altruistic just cause they're Chinese. They're exploiting them. The countries need infrastructure and they get exploited on unfair terms. You know, the kind of deals China used to hate being imposed on it by outsiders?
Last edited by Baja California Autonoma on Sun May 17, 2020 9:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon May 18, 2020 12:29 am

I think it will go down the cold war route.
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New Bremerton
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Postby New Bremerton » Mon May 18, 2020 2:11 am

A long war of attrition along the Himalayas would result in a stalemate.

This is what WWIII would look like IMO:

Image


Allies led by the USA in blue; Axis led by China in red; neutral in gray

It's a little out of date. Maybe I should add Indonesia as an Ally and Cambodia as pro-Axis? The Philippines should be neutral, I think.
Last edited by New Bremerton on Mon May 18, 2020 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stellar Colonies
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Mon May 18, 2020 1:24 pm

New Bremerton wrote:A long war of attrition along the Himalayas would result in a stalemate.

This is what WWIII would look like IMO:



Allies led by the USA in blue; Axis led by China in red; neutral in gray

It's a little out of date. Maybe I should add Indonesia as an Ally and Cambodia as pro-Axis? The Philippines should be neutral, I think.

So Turkey just withdraws from NATO during the war and switches sides?

Edit:
Belarus might side with the Russians as well.
Last edited by Stellar Colonies on Mon May 18, 2020 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Baja California Autonoma
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Postby Baja California Autonoma » Mon May 18, 2020 1:25 pm

Stellar Colonies wrote:
New Bremerton wrote:A long war of attrition along the Himalayas would result in a stalemate.

This is what WWIII would look like IMO:



Allies led by the USA in blue; Axis led by China in red; neutral in gray

It's a little out of date. Maybe I should add Indonesia as an Ally and Cambodia as pro-Axis? The Philippines should be neutral, I think.

So Turkey just withdraws from NATO during the war and switches sides?


That hardly seems impossible. See: Erdogan

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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Mon May 18, 2020 1:34 pm

New Bremerton wrote:A long war of attrition along the Himalayas would result in a stalemate.

This is what WWIII would look like IMO:



Allies led by the USA in blue; Axis led by China in red; neutral in gray

It's a little out of date. Maybe I should add Indonesia as an Ally and Cambodia as pro-Axis? The Philippines should be neutral, I think.

Doesn't seem very likely. Well, the map doesn't. Russia would probably stay out, along with their buddy-buddy allied countries. Turkey has nothing to gain from siding with China. Etc, etc.
In any case, a Sino-Indian war would be won by whoever's on the defensive.
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New Bremerton
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Postby New Bremerton » Mon May 18, 2020 1:42 pm

I'm going to have to update my WWIII map.
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Tokora
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Postby Tokora » Mon May 18, 2020 3:57 pm

Would India have a better chance if Russia was to flip over to India's side as a combatant?

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Baja California Autonoma
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Postby Baja California Autonoma » Mon May 18, 2020 4:04 pm

Tokora wrote:Would India have a better chance if Russia was to flip over to India's side as a combatant?


Hell yeah, the Chinese would have to defend thousands of miles on two fronts. Plus, Russia and China do see each other as potential threats or enemies. Look at Mao and Nixon and what the Russians were thinking about China at the time.

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Postby US-SSR » Mon May 18, 2020 4:04 pm

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Postby Heloin » Mon May 18, 2020 4:16 pm

New Bremerton wrote:I'm going to have to update my WWIII map.

Sudan joining with China doesn't make much sense since the revolution and coup. Also Cuba may not like the States but they aren't fucking stupid. And Yemen siding with the Saudi's? Aside from Pakistan and North Korea that map has a lot of countries that don't really like either the US or China but are siding with China for, reasons?
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Shanghai industrial complex
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Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Mon May 18, 2020 6:02 pm

Baja California Autonoma wrote:
Tokora wrote:Would India have a better chance if Russia was to flip over to India's side as a combatant?


Hell yeah, the Chinese would have to defend thousands of miles on two fronts. Plus, Russia and China do see each other as potential threats or enemies. Look at Mao and Nixon and what the Russians were thinking about China at the time.


Russians are not stupid. If China fails, the next goal of the west is Russia.Russia has long had no power to stand alone against the threat of the US.It's amazing that you're still in the cold war.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Mon May 18, 2020 6:03 pm

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
Baja California Autonoma wrote:
Hell yeah, the Chinese would have to defend thousands of miles on two fronts. Plus, Russia and China do see each other as potential threats or enemies. Look at Mao and Nixon and what the Russians were thinking about China at the time.


Russians are not stupid. If China fails, the next goal of the west is Russia.Russia has long had no power to stand alone against the threat of the US.It's amazing that you're still in the cold war.

Accusing others of "still being in the cold war" while saying, "the next goal of the west is Russia."
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Shanghai industrial complex
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Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Mon May 18, 2020 6:31 pm

New Bremerton wrote:A long war of attrition along the Himalayas would result in a stalemate.

This is what WWIII would look like IMO:



Allies led by the USA in blue; Axis led by China in red; neutral in gray

It's a little out of date. Maybe I should add Indonesia as an Ally and Cambodia as pro-Axis? The Philippines should be neutral, I think.


You don't even include the former Soviet Union in Central Asia. Don't you know that they have a military cooperation organization with China?
The Shanghai Cooperation Organization:Permanent intergovernmental international organizations announced by the Republic of Kazakhstan, the people's Republic of China, Kyrgyzstan, the Russian Federation, the Republic of Tajikistan and the Republic of Uzbekistan in Shanghai, China
But interestingly, India and Pakistan, through political mediation, are now full members of the group.By the way, India used to be the traditional military partner of the Soviet Union, but now its relationship with the United States is not to that extent. They are still closer to Russia.Do many people here think India is already an ally of the west?

Kenya, Zambia, Tanzania, Ethiopia, Rwanda and other countries may stand with China, whose military and high-level are trained and supported by China.Tanzania in particular.However,Sudan and China do not have much military ties.South Africa and West African countries will obviously stand with Britain and France.They are blue.New Zealand will join, too. They're part of the five eye alliance.Will Vietnam join the war? It's hard to say. But definitely not in the first , so they're going to be the first targets.Belarus will keep pace with Russia, which is the highest level of cooperation with China.
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Shanghai industrial complex
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Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Mon May 18, 2020 6:32 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
Russians are not stupid. If China fails, the next goal of the west is Russia.Russia has long had no power to stand alone against the threat of the US.It's amazing that you're still in the cold war.

Accusing others of "still being in the cold war" while saying, "the next goal of the west is Russia."


No, I'm in the new Cold War.Unless Russia goes back 40 years
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Alba and Cymru
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Postby Alba and Cymru » Mon May 18, 2020 6:37 pm

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:But interestingly, India and Pakistan, through political mediation, are now full members of the group.By the way, India used to be the traditional military partner of the Soviet Union, but now its relationship with the United States is not to that extent. They are still closer to Russia.Do many people here think India is already an ally of the west?


Um, yes? India is part of the Commonwealth, and they have close ties with the United States. India is in no way allies with Russia. Economic partners? Certainly, but not allies by any means.
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Shanghai industrial complex
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Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Mon May 18, 2020 6:48 pm

Alba and Cymru wrote:
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:But interestingly, India and Pakistan, through political mediation, are now full members of the group.By the way, India used to be the traditional military partner of the Soviet Union, but now its relationship with the United States is not to that extent. They are still closer to Russia.Do many people here think India is already an ally of the west?


Um, yes? India is part of the Commonwealth, and they have close ties with the United States. India is in no way allies with Russia. Economic partners? Certainly, but not allies by any means.


Where do I say ally? Don't you know what traditional military partners mean?
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Serria
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Postby Serria » Mon May 18, 2020 6:56 pm

Alba and Cymru wrote:Um, yes? India is part of the Commonwealth, and they have close ties with the United States. India is in no way allies with Russia. Economic partners? Certainly, but not allies by any means.

The fact that India is in the Commonwealth doesn't mean much. Both India and Pakistan are in the Commonwealth, and they have fought numerous wars with each other. In most of said disputes, the Commonwealth and its allies were ambivalent or antagonistic to India.

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Conservative Republic Of Huang
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Postby Conservative Republic Of Huang » Mon May 18, 2020 7:05 pm

Baja California Autonoma wrote:
Tokora wrote:Would India have a better chance if Russia was to flip over to India's side as a combatant?


Hell yeah, the Chinese would have to defend thousands of miles on two fronts. Plus, Russia and China do see each other as potential threats or enemies. Look at Mao and Nixon and what the Russians were thinking about China at the time.

That was 50 years ago and due to ideological differences. Both nations now have strategic reasons to align to oppose the West and do now cooperate militarily and economically.
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Bassoe
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Postby Bassoe » Mon May 18, 2020 9:56 pm

Green October Z wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Does India have a stronger navy though?

Even if it does, a blockade would cause trade disruptions, and given the importance of Chinese trade, generate pro-Chinese sympathies


.........How?

Wealthy businesses in lots of countries besides China have outsourced manufacturing to China. Therefore, if China is blockaded, the flow of Made In China™ products would be cut off, causing said businesses to lose money, causing them to fund anti-India, anti-blockade, pro-China politicians.

Or on the other hand, the opposite effect could take place as populists supported India in thanks for causing the restoration of jobs to their own countries now that the Indian blockade meant Made In China™ was no longer a reliable option and elected politicians on a pro-India, anti-China platform.

I'd give it 50/50 either way.
Last edited by Bassoe on Mon May 18, 2020 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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New Bremerton
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Postby New Bremerton » Wed May 20, 2020 2:38 am

Indian and Chinese soldiers play rugby along the border. Wish all wars were like this.
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Auze
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Postby Auze » Wed May 20, 2020 5:25 am

Any major invasion would be largely stymied by the series of mountain ranges. I doubt it would go nuclear, and it would most likely be in a stalemate barring a major event such as an economic collapse or a USA intervention.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Wed May 20, 2020 2:15 pm

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
Baja California Autonoma wrote:
Hell yeah, the Chinese would have to defend thousands of miles on two fronts. Plus, Russia and China do see each other as potential threats or enemies. Look at Mao and Nixon and what the Russians were thinking about China at the time.


Russians are not stupid. If China fails, the next goal of the west is Russia.Russia has long had no power to stand alone against the threat of the US.It's amazing that you're still in the cold war.


The US has as much interest invading Russia as we do mandating everyone be gay. Such a concept exists only amongst conspiracy theory rankings of the Dugin sort, not any actual relationship to reality.

Admittedly Russia is in a tough spot. Their best interest right now is neither side becoming too powerful. They do not want the US to triumph over the PRC NOR for the PRC to triumph over the US.

Actually the PRC is the greater threat in terms of actually wanting Russian territory (sure it officially gave up its claims in a treaty but we know how the PRC treats treaties, and treaties do not last forever) but also the US and Russia are more ideologically different. Russia is painted into a bad corner.
Last edited by Novus America on Wed May 20, 2020 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Wed May 20, 2020 2:21 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Eckie-Cola wrote:The best India has against China is their navy. Cut off China’s seagoing trade India just has to sit and wait as China’s economy tanks hard.


From yahoo


Does India have a stronger navy though?

Even if it does, a blockade would cause trade disruptions, and given the importance of Chinese trade, generate pro-Chinese sympathies


Locally India does. India could cut off Persian Gulf oil going to the PRC. Because it has to pass India. The PRC cannot easily get its navy to the Indian Ocean and supply it there.
India does not have to blockade the whole of the PRC. Just cut off its oil.

And again you over emphasize the importance of trade, which is mostly only really so rabidly supported by a small number of out of touch people, not the general populations.

The PRC is widely hated in the US regardless of trade, and in fact hated in part because of trade.
Last edited by Novus America on Wed May 20, 2020 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Aureumterra
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Postby Aureumterra » Wed May 20, 2020 3:34 pm

Alba and Cymru wrote:
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:But interestingly, India and Pakistan, through political mediation, are now full members of the group.By the way, India used to be the traditional military partner of the Soviet Union, but now its relationship with the United States is not to that extent. They are still closer to Russia.Do many people here think India is already an ally of the west?


India is in no way allies with Russia.

Yeah… I can't taking anything you post regarding geopolitics seriously after reading this
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