NationStates

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:12 pm**

Jedi Council wrote:I think we can all agree that no one is gonna convince La Xinga that he is being ignorant and foolish for rejecting the concept of facts, and likewise that this strategy is not going to convince any of us.

We might as well all stop trying.

Probably, yeah.

Anyway, to go back to the thread topic, if religions are to be taught, they must be taught as objectively as possible. If teaching them objectively is impossible, it should not be taught.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:13 pm**

Necroghastia wrote:
La xinga wrote:Actually, very much twisting my words.

You literally said you don't understand something, but that's okay because you don't believe it.
How can you decide whether you believe in something without understanding it?

What did I say I don't undersatnd?

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:14 pm**

Estanglia wrote:
Jedi Council wrote:I think we can all agree that no one is gonna convince La Xinga that he is being ignorant and foolish for rejecting the concept of facts, and likewise that this strategy is not going to convince any of us.

We might as well all stop trying.

Probably, yeah.

Anyway, to go back to the thread topic, if religions are to be taught, they must be taught as objectively as possible. If teaching them objectively is impossible, it should not be taught.

Agreed, but what about religious schools? What to do about them?

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:14 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Jedi Council wrote:I think we can all agree that no one is gonna convince La Xinga that he is being ignorant and foolish for rejecting the concept of facts, and likewise that this strategy is not going to convince any of us.

We might as well all stop trying.

Yeah, I agree, and since no one can convince me, I still think I'm not.

Albrenia wrote:
No, they don't.

*sigh* As I have said before, religion has its evidences. Just its people's choice to trust it or not.

Although I'm obviously not going to convince you to change your unfortunate mindset, and it's not entirely on topic, what are these evidences you speak of?

Hopefully better than the past shams of 'bananas are proof of God' or 'what use is half an eye?'.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:14 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:You literally said you don't understand something, but that's okay because you don't believe it.
How can you decide whether you believe in something without understanding it?

What did I say I don't undersatnd?

I believe he may be referring to evolution as you did not know what selective breeding was.

I may be wrong.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:15 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:You literally said you don't understand something, but that's okay because you don't believe it.
How can you decide whether you believe in something without understanding it?

What did I say I don't undersatnd?

Evolution. Dog breeds. Selective breeding. The Amish.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:15 pm**

Eudea wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Probably, yeah.

Anyway, to go back to the thread topic, if religions are to be taught, they must be taught as objectively as possible. If teaching them objectively is impossible, it should not be taught.

Agreed, but what about religious schools? What to do about them?

Nothing LOL

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:16 pm**

Kernen wrote:
La xinga wrote:What did I say I don't undersatnd?

Evolution. Dog breeds. Selective breeding. The Amish.

So because I don't understand dog breeds I cannot choose my faith, interesting.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:16 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Eudea wrote:
Agreed, but what about religious schools? What to do about them?

Nothing LOL

Even if they involve curriculum that I'd harmful, either by design or by omission, to their students?

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:16 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:You literally said you don't understand something, but that's okay because you don't believe it.
How can you decide whether you believe in something without understanding it?

What did I say I don't undersatnd?

La xinga wrote:Sir/madam, not understanding evolution is okay if you don't believe in it like me!

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:16 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Eudea wrote:
Agreed, but what about religious schools? What to do about them?

Nothing LOL

Pardon me, but I don’t think your input is particularly valid.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:16 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Kernen wrote:
Evolution. Dog breeds. Selective breeding. The Amish.

So because I don't understand dog breeds I cannot choose my faith, interesting.

He is saying that you do not understand a key example of evolution so it's hard to believe that you have examined evolution closely and critically, which would thus enable you to make an educated opinion of it.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:17 pm**

Jedi Council wrote:
La xinga wrote:Nothing LOL

Even if they involve curriculum that I'd harmful, either by design or by omission, to their students?

I don't know nay Real school that teaches those stuff :lol2:

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:17 pm**

Eudea wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Probably, yeah.

Anyway, to go back to the thread topic, if religions are to be taught, they must be taught as objectively as possible. If teaching them objectively is impossible, it should not be taught.

Agreed, but what about religious schools? What to do about them?

I don't believe in religion-based special exemptions to things like school curriculums (or to most things really), so they'd be treated identically. Either teach religion (and I should've added to my original post, multiple religions (at least 3, preferably 5) to avoid only teaching your religion as a workaround) objectively, or don't teach it at all.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:17 pm**

Eudea wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Probably, yeah.

Anyway, to go back to the thread topic, if religions are to be taught, they must be taught as objectively as possible. If teaching them objectively is impossible, it should not be taught.

Agreed, but what about religious schools? What to do about them?

They don't get accredited. Simple as.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:17 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Kernen wrote:
Evolution. Dog breeds. Selective breeding. The Amish.

So because I don't understand dog breeds I cannot choose my faith, interesting.

Hggn... no, not that.

Because you don't understand dog breeds, you don't get to just make up whatever fits your holy book best. Learn how it works, don't try to push your made up explanation on others and call it 'truth'.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:19 pm**

Albrenia wrote:
La xinga wrote:So because I don't understand dog breeds I cannot choose my faith, interesting.

Hggn... no, not that.

Because you don't understand dog breeds, you don't get to just make up whatever fits your holy book best. Learn how it works, don't try to push your made up explanation on others and call it 'truth'.

1. I don't make up holy books and stuff, since they are not made up.
2. I don't push my explanation on others.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:19 pm**

Estanglia wrote:
Eudea wrote:
Agreed, but what about religious schools? What to do about them?

I don't believe in religion-based special exemptions to things like school curriculums (or to most things really), so they'd be treated identically. Either teach religion (and I should've added to my original post, multiple religions (at least 3, preferably 5) to avoid only teaching your religion as a workaround) objectively, or don't teach it at all.

Understandable. Just that AFAIK a lot of schools here in the UK are operated/run by religious authorities IIRC. I could be wrong, our school system is quite different to the USA’s.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:21 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Jedi Council wrote:
Even if they involve curriculum that I'd harmful, either by design or by omission, to their students?

I don't know nay Real school that teaches those stuff

You misunderstood my point

As I said a few pages back, a friend of mine went to an all girls Catholic school. At the age of 21, her 3rd year at a top 40 University, she did not understand her own biology, she did not know how someone conceives a child. It was up to my then girlfriend and me to explain it to her.

Her Catholic school had no sex ed, and no human biology course. It left that girl woefully unprepared for life, especially given the generally more liberal attitudes people of my generation hold towards sex. That school was blatantly bad for her education, and if she had been more interested in intimacy or men in general, it could have led her to make terrible choices, or to no understand her choices at all.

By your theory, that school was within its rights to not teach her these things because they do not deem them appropriate, and it is part of their faith that sex/family planning is a bad thing.

How is it then that we allow schools like this to remain open when they do not prepare people for the real world?

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:21 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
Hggn... no, not that.

Because you don't understand dog breeds, you don't get to just make up whatever fits your holy book best. Learn how it works, don't try to push your made up explanation on others and call it 'truth'.

1. I don't make up holy books and stuff, since they are not made up.
2. I don't push my explanation on others.

They're saying that filling in any logical gap with "God did it" is something you're making up. And is every holy book factual to you?

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:23 pm**

Jedi Council wrote:
La xinga wrote:I don't know nay Real school that teaches those stuff

You misunderstood my point

As I said a few pages back, a friend of mine went to an all girls Catholic school. At the age of 21, her 3rd year at a top 40 University, she did not understand her own biology, she did not know how someone conceives a child. It was up to my then girlfriend and me to explain it to her.

Her Catholic school had no sex ed, and no human biology course. It left that girl woefully unprepared for life, especially given the generally more liberal attitudes people of my generation hold towards sex. That school was blatantly bad for her education, and if she had been more interested in intimacy or men in general, it could have led her to make terrible choices, or to no understand her choices at all.

By your theory, that school was within its rights to not teach her these things because they do not deem them appropriate, and it is part of their faith that sex/family planning is a bad thing.

How is it then that we allow schools like this to remain open when they do not prepare people for the real world?

Talk to them, ask them how come they don't teach it.

Necroghastia wrote:
La xinga wrote:1. I don't make up holy books and stuff, since they are not made up.
2. I don't push my explanation on others.

They're saying that filling in any logical gap with "God did it" is something you're making up. And is every holy book factual to you?

No, it's not something I am making up. Yes, all holy books of my religion are 100% factual to me, with 0 mistakes.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:24 pm**

Eudea wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
I don't believe in religion-based special exemptions to things like school curriculums (or to most things really), so they'd be treated identically. Either teach religion (and I should've added to my original post, multiple religions (at least 3, preferably 5) to avoid only teaching your religion as a workaround) objectively, or don't teach it at all.

Understandable. Just that AFAIK a lot of schools here in the UK are operated/run by religious authorities IIRC. I could be wrong, our school system is quite different to the USA’s.

Anecdotally (I'm in the UK too), a good amount of the schools I know of are religious.

I don't particularly mind a school/college/university being religiously affiliated. I mind when they treat their religion as if it is objective/truer than the rest, or if they try to force their religion onto those who aren't of their religion.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:28 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Jedi Council wrote:You misunderstood my point

As I said a few pages back, a friend of mine went to an all girls Catholic school. At the age of 21, her 3rd year at a top 40 University, she did not understand her own biology, she did not know how someone conceives a child. It was up to my then girlfriend and me to explain it to her.

Her Catholic school had no sex ed, and no human biology course. It left that girl woefully unprepared for life, especially given the generally more liberal attitudes people of my generation hold towards sex. That school was blatantly bad for her education, and if she had been more interested in intimacy or men in general, it could have led her to make terrible choices, or to no understand her choices at all.

By your theory, that school was within its rights to not teach her these things because they do not deem them appropriate, and it is part of their faith that sex/family planning is a bad thing.

How is it then that we allow schools like this to remain open when they do not prepare people for the real world?

Talk to them, ask them how come they don't teach it.
Necroghastia wrote:They're saying that filling in any logical gap with "God did it" is something you're making up. And is every holy book factual to you?

No, it's not something I am making up. Yes, all holy books of my religion are 100% factual to me, with 0 mistakes.

Asking how you don't so something is pointless.

"How do you not exercise?"
"How do you not paint"

You just don't.
And that is what that school did. As I said it fell to me and my then girlfriend to explain how it worked to this girl. My girlfriend also when to the same Catholic school, but was lucky enough to have progressive parents who wanted her to know about her body.

They both explained that at this Catholic school, my question about sex, conception, or biology was met with either silence, obfuscation, or merely a throw away like about abstinence. All three of those made this girl think that sex is bad, and worse, it made her not understand even the basics of it.

But you think this is fine?

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:28 pm**

Estanglia wrote:
Eudea wrote:
Understandable. Just that AFAIK a lot of schools here in the UK are operated/run by religious authorities IIRC. I could be wrong, our school system is quite different to the USA’s.

Anecdotally (I'm in the UK too), a good amount of the schools I know of are religious.

I don't particularly mind a school/college/university being religiously affiliated. I mind when they treat their religion as if it is objective/truer than the rest, or if they try to force their religion onto those who aren't of their religion.

Thankfully the school I went to wasn’t... overly Christian? Singing Christian songs and celebrating Christian stuff while keeping it kinda secular was the norm in assemblies and special occasions, but there wasn’t any evangelising or anything as far as I can remember. We learned about Islam, Christianity and Sikhism but that’s all I can recall. I never really liked RE myself. The songs weren’t really my thing either. But there definitely was a Christian sort of theme, just more subtle. Then again, it’s not really right to evangelise at all in a special needs school ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 3:28 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Jedi Council wrote:You misunderstood my point

As I said a few pages back, a friend of mine went to an all girls Catholic school. At the age of 21, her 3rd year at a top 40 University, she did not understand her own biology, she did not know how someone conceives a child. It was up to my then girlfriend and me to explain it to her.

Her Catholic school had no sex ed, and no human biology course. It left that girl woefully unprepared for life, especially given the generally more liberal attitudes people of my generation hold towards sex. That school was blatantly bad for her education, and if she had been more interested in intimacy or men in general, it could have led her to make terrible choices, or to no understand her choices at all.

By your theory, that school was within its rights to not teach her these things because they do not deem them appropriate, and it is part of their faith that sex/family planning is a bad thing.

How is it then that we allow schools like this to remain open when they do not prepare people for the real world?

Talk to them, ask them how come they don't teach it.
Necroghastia wrote:They're saying that filling in any logical gap with "God did it" is something you're making up. And is every holy book factual to you?

No, it's not something I am making up. Yes, all holy books of my religion are 100% factual to me, with 0 mistakes.

You're saying that a book, which has been translated across hundreds of languages over thousands of years, is not imperfect? Humans are imperfect beings, I highly doubt that our translations of these books are perfect from the first time they were written. That leads me to wonder, why are there so many different interpretations of the holy books of all religions, if they're supposedly all "factual".

NationStates

Should Religions Be Taught in Schools?