Should Religions Be Taught in Schools?

[Katganistan]

It always has been.

Not like marriage predates Christianity or anything.

Or exists in other faiths.
Or is a secular, civil matter.

Maybe we shouldn't teach history in school. Maybe no philosophy either.

Guess that's somehow fucking relevant here now.
Some of you really make me question if human intelligence is actually as high as people think.

Some people are above average.
Some people are average.
Some people are below average.

The good things people do are Christian ideals.

I mean... someone help me out here. What do you do when the other guy admits to using dishonest, fallacious sophistry? With no shame and a smile on their face?

Fire the ignore cannon and move on.

World Religions as a mandatory class from a neutral point of view, taught by non-clergy, would be a valuable class.

That's how it is taught in NYS/NYC public schools, as part of World History.

[Geneviev]

Yes, they do. They're saying that marriage represents the Gospel.

No, they're saying that husbands must be benevolent dictators to their wives, just as God is a benevolent dictator to the Church.

That's the general idea.

The good things people do are Christian ideals.

Sure. Tell that to a practicing Muslim. Or Buddhist. Or Jew. Or atheist.

Christians do not have, and never had, the monopoly on morality.

I don't know about other religions as much, but I think most Christian ideals are also Muslim or Buddhist or Jewish ideals. Atheism isn't really a religion, so it can't really have specific beliefs, but other than that, I think most religions have similar ideals. So no, Christians don't have a monopoly on morality. But they are one of the religions with moral ideals.

It's not. It's possibly superior, anyway.

I agree.

The original poster does not seem to, and I would like to hear why

Oh, me?

Secular education isn't inferior to religious education. I want most education to be secular, with religion classes added to it. Those religion classes would just help with students understanding what they believe and learning to be better people, but there are technically secular ways to do that.

[Jedi Council]

No, they're saying that husbands must be benevolent dictators to their wives, just as God is a benevolent dictator to the Church.

That's the general idea.

Sure. Tell that to a practicing Muslim. Or Buddhist. Or Jew. Or atheist.

Christians do not have, and never had, the monopoly on morality.

I don't know about other religions as much, but I think most Christian ideals are also Muslim or Buddhist or Jewish ideals. Atheism isn't really a religion, so it can't really have specific beliefs, but other than that, I think most religions have similar ideals. So no, Christians don't have a monopoly on morality. But they are one of the religions with moral ideals.

I agree.

The original poster does not seem to, and I would like to hear why

Oh, me?

Secular education isn't inferior to religious education. I want most education to be secular, with religion classes added to it. Those religion classes would just help with students understanding what they believe and learning to be better people, but there are technically secular ways to do that.

No not you, there was a poster a few pages back I quoted that said religious education was superior to secular education.

But to address a point you made, how on Earth does any kind of dictatorship, even a benevolent one, describe your ideal marriage?

[Geneviev]

That's the general idea.


I don't know about other religions as much, but I think most Christian ideals are also Muslim or Buddhist or Jewish ideals. Atheism isn't really a religion, so it can't really have specific beliefs, but other than that, I think most religions have similar ideals. So no, Christians don't have a monopoly on morality. But they are one of the religions with moral ideals.


Oh, me?

Secular education isn't inferior to religious education. I want most education to be secular, with religion classes added to it. Those religion classes would just help with students understanding what they believe and learning to be better people, but there are technically secular ways to do that.

No not you, there was a poster a few pages back I quoted that said religious education was superior to secular education.

But to address a point you made, how on Earth does any kind of dictatorship, even a benevolent one, describe your ideal marriage?

It's not exactly supposed to be a dictatorship. It's supposed to be closer to leadership similar to Christ over his church, which some people see as dictatorship, but it's more like providing the church/wife with her needs and listening to her to know what to do, but having the authority.

[Jedi Council]

No not you, there was a poster a few pages back I quoted that said religious education was superior to secular education.

But to address a point you made, how on Earth does any kind of dictatorship, even a benevolent one, describe your ideal marriage?

It's not exactly supposed to be a dictatorship. It's supposed to be closer to leadership similar to Christ over his church, which some people see as dictatorship, but it's more like providing the church/wife with her needs and listening to her to know what to do, but having the authority.

I would reject any arrangement or partnership where one side has authority over the other.

[Geneviev]

It's not exactly supposed to be a dictatorship. It's supposed to be closer to leadership similar to Christ over his church, which some people see as dictatorship, but it's more like providing the church/wife with her needs and listening to her to know what to do, but having the authority.

I would reject any arrangement or partnership where one side has authority over the other.

It is generally more efficient that way. And usually one side is more qualified than the other to have authority. There can be exceptions, but that is usually what happens.

[Jedi Council]

I would reject any arrangement or partnership where one side has authority over the other.

It is generally more efficient that way. And usually one side is more qualified than the other to have authority. There can be exceptions, but that is usually what happens.

Efficient?
Qualifications?

You have a strange idea of marriage.

[Geneviev]

It is generally more efficient that way. And usually one side is more qualified than the other to have authority. There can be exceptions, but that is usually what happens.

Efficient?
Qualifications?

You have a strange idea of marriage.

Probably.

[The Alma Mater]

No not you, there was a poster a few pages back I quoted that said religious education was superior to secular education.

To be fair, it often is (at least over here). But that is because they are "private" schools receiving donations and therefor have more funds than public secular schools.

[Jedi Council]

No not you, there was a poster a few pages back I quoted that said religious education was superior to secular education.

To be fair, it often is (at least over here). But that is because they are "private" schools receiving donations and therefor have more funds than public secular schools.

Quite, though I believe the poster may have meant that it was better by virtue of its religious nature, rather than the aspects you mention.

Though that's just an assumption on my part.

[The Free Joy State]

I would reject any arrangement or partnership where one side has authority over the other.

It is generally more efficient that way. And usually one side is more qualified than the other to have authority. There can be exceptions, but that is usually what happens.

Not in any marriage I've ever heard of.

It sounds like the Biblical patriarchy model -- which is a crappy model for a marriage -- Christ (allegedly) rules the husband, who rules the wife, who looks after the home and children. The so-called "Umbrella of Protection".

It doesn't tend to work well, for men or women. I can suggest I Fired God, by Jocelyn Zichterman for further reading (technically, IIRC, she didn't fire God completely, just the patriarchal version).

[Geneviev]

It is generally more efficient that way. And usually one side is more qualified than the other to have authority. There can be exceptions, but that is usually what happens.

Not in any marriage I've ever heard of.

It sounds like the Biblical patriarchy model -- which is a crappy model for a marriage -- Christ (allegedly) rules the husband, who rules the wife, who looks after the home and children. The so-called "Umbrella of Protection".

It doesn't tend to work well, for men or women. I can suggest I Fired God, by Jocelyn Zichterman for further reading (technically, IIRC, she didn't fire God completely, just the patriarchal version).

It is Biblical, yes. There are cases when the wife should be the head as well.

Do you know where I could find the book, given the current lack of libraries?

[The Free Joy State]

Not in any marriage I've ever heard of.

It sounds like the Biblical patriarchy model -- which is a crappy model for a marriage -- Christ (allegedly) rules the husband, who rules the wife, who looks after the home and children. The so-called "Umbrella of Protection".

It doesn't tend to work well, for men or women. I can suggest I Fired God, by Jocelyn Zichterman for further reading (technically, IIRC, she didn't fire God completely, just the patriarchal version).

It is Biblical, yes. There are cases when the wife should be the head as well.

Do you know where I could find the book, given the current lack of libraries?

I can only think of Amazon, I'm afraid. That's where I got my copy. It might be cheaper for you; I had to have mine shipped from the States.

[Geneviev]

It is Biblical, yes. There are cases when the wife should be the head as well.

Do you know where I could find the book, given the current lack of libraries?

I can only think of Amazon, I'm afraid. That's where I got my copy. It might be cheaper for you; I had to have mine shipped from the States.

I hope that shipping was worth it. I'll look into it, at least. Thanks.

[The Free Joy State]

I can only think of Amazon, I'm afraid. That's where I got my copy. It might be cheaper for you; I had to have mine shipped from the States.

I hope that shipping was worth it. I'll look into it, at least. Thanks.

It's an interesting read. And actually it wasn't that much. Though -- maybe it's the whole worldwide lockdown thing -- the price seems to have gone up. A lot. If you have e-Books, that'd be more worth the money.

No not you, there was a poster a few pages back I quoted that said religious education was superior to secular education.

To be fair, it often is (at least over here). But that is because they are "private" schools receiving donations and therefor have more funds than public secular schools.

Though, that doesn't necessarily apply. Some private religious schools are truly terrible, with inaccurate curricula that leave children unprepared for the real world:

He [James Williams, lecturer at the University of Sussex] said teachers were "arguing from a powerbase" and consequently able to use that authority to present to children something "that we know to be scientifically wrong and incorrect".

"When you look at the ACE syllabus, it is definitely not a balanced view," he added. "They are deliberately using material aimed at very young children - comic books, comic stories - in order to indoctrinate them.

"It leaves them [children] grossly unprepared for the real world. They have a view of society and people which is unrealistic, which doesn't match or fit any of the norms of society.

And here are some of the questions that same syllabus (Accelerated Christian Education) teaches:
-- To 9 and 10 year olds:

“Mr. Francesco Redi did not think meat could make maggots.”
Mr. Francesco Redi was (a) a glass bottle (b) an airplane (c) a scientist.
“Willie will write the address on the envelope.”
Envelope means (a) a letter holder (b) donkey supplies.

-- To 14 and 15 year olds:

"Darwin’s well-known book was called _________________."
A. Top Banana in the Jungle
B. The Origin of Species
C. No one is Going to Make a Monkey Out of Me.
"Mary I, Queen of England (1555-1558), was called “__________________” because of her persecution of the Protestants."
A. Happy Mary
B. Bloody Mary
C. Crazy Elizabeth

Yep... top quality education that money's buying there.

[Geneviev]

I hope that shipping was worth it. I'll look into it, at least. Thanks.

It's an interesting read. And actually it wasn't that much. Though -- maybe it's the whole worldwide lockdown thing -- the price seems to have gone up. A lot. If you have e-Books, that'd be more worth the money.

The lockdown really doesn't like books, I guess. I'll probably have to go with an ebook, as much as I dislike them.

As for the curriculum, that can't possibly be real.

[Jedi Council]

I hope that shipping was worth it. I'll look into it, at least. Thanks.

It's an interesting read. And actually it wasn't that much. Though -- maybe it's the whole worldwide lockdown thing -- the price seems to have gone up. A lot. If you have e-Books, that'd be more worth the money.

To be fair, it often is (at least over here). But that is because they are "private" schools receiving donations and therefor have more funds than public secular schools.

Though, that doesn't necessarily apply. Some private religious schools are truly terrible, with inaccurate curricula that leave children unprepared for the real world:

He [James Williams, lecturer at the University of Sussex] said teachers were "arguing from a powerbase" and consequently able to use that authority to present to children something "that we know to be scientifically wrong and incorrect".

"When you look at the ACE syllabus, it is definitely not a balanced view," he added. "They are deliberately using material aimed at very young children - comic books, comic stories - in order to indoctrinate them.

"It leaves them [children] grossly unprepared for the real world. They have a view of society and people which is unrealistic, which doesn't match or fit any of the norms of society.

And here are some of the questions that same syllabus (Accelerated Christian Education) teaches:
-- To 9 and 10 year olds:

“Mr. Francesco Redi did not think meat could make maggots.”
Mr. Francesco Redi was (a) a glass bottle (b) an airplane (c) a scientist.
“Willie will write the address on the envelope.”
Envelope means (a) a letter holder (b) donkey supplies.

-- To 14 and 15 year olds:

"Darwin’s well-known book was called _________________."
A. Top Banana in the Jungle
B. The Origin of Species
C. No one is Going to Make a Monkey Out of Me.
"Mary I, Queen of England (1555-1558), was called “__________________” because of her persecution of the Protestants."
A. Happy Mary
B. Bloody Mary
C. Crazy Elizabeth

Yep... top quality education that money's buying there.

Please tell me that that is satire...

[The Free Joy State]

It's an interesting read. And actually it wasn't that much. Though -- maybe it's the whole worldwide lockdown thing -- the price seems to have gone up. A lot. If you have e-Books, that'd be more worth the money.

Though, that doesn't necessarily apply. Some private religious schools are truly terrible, with inaccurate curricula that leave children unprepared for the real world:


And here are some of the questions that same syllabus (Accelerated Christian Education) teaches:
-- To 9 and 10 year olds:

-- To 14 and 15 year olds:


Yep... top quality education that money's buying there.

Please tell me that that is satire...

Sadly, not.

Accelerated Christian Education. Used in real private religious schools and by homeschoolers across the world. Just some of the false claims they make.

The UK government deems children "at risk" in their schools.

[Godular]

It's an interesting read. And actually it wasn't that much. Though -- maybe it's the whole worldwide lockdown thing -- the price seems to have gone up. A lot. If you have e-Books, that'd be more worth the money.

Though, that doesn't necessarily apply. Some private religious schools are truly terrible, with inaccurate curricula that leave children unprepared for the real world:


And here are some of the questions that same syllabus (Accelerated Christian Education) teaches:
-- To 9 and 10 year olds:

-- To 14 and 15 year olds:


Yep... top quality education that money's buying there.

Please tell me that that is satire...

The amusing thing is that the writer of the article says that the greatest obstacle to his work is that people keep thinking it cannot be THAT astonishingly bad. In this case I find your response to be very apropos.

[Jedi Council]

Please tell me that that is satire...

Sadly, not.

Accelerated Christian Education. Used in real private religious schools and by homeschoolers across the world. Just some of the false claims they make.

The UK government deems children "at risk" in their schools.

I am truly horrified.

Is there any reason these schools can not be shut down?

[Godular]

Sadly, not.

Accelerated Christian Education. Used in real private religious schools and by homeschoolers across the world. Just some of the false claims they make.

The UK government deems children "at risk" in their schools.

I am truly horrified.

Is there any reason these schools can not be shut down?

Bureaucracy. Gotta go through the process.

[The Alma Mater]

I hope that shipping was worth it. I'll look into it, at least. Thanks.

It's an interesting read. And actually it wasn't that much. Though -- maybe it's the whole worldwide lockdown thing -- the price seems to have gone up. A lot. If you have e-Books, that'd be more worth the money.

To be fair, it often is (at least over here). But that is because they are "private" schools receiving donations and therefor have more funds than public secular schools.

Though, that doesn't necessarily apply. Some private religious schools are truly terrible, with inaccurate curricula that leave children unprepared for the real world:

He [James Williams, lecturer at the University of Sussex] said teachers were "arguing from a powerbase" and consequently able to use that authority to present to children something "that we know to be scientifically wrong and incorrect".

"When you look at the ACE syllabus, it is definitely not a balanced view," he added. "They are deliberately using material aimed at very young children - comic books, comic stories - in order to indoctrinate them.

"It leaves them [children] grossly unprepared for the real world. They have a view of society and people which is unrealistic, which doesn't match or fit any of the norms of society.

And here are some of the questions that same syllabus (Accelerated Christian Education) teaches:
-- To 9 and 10 year olds:

“Mr. Francesco Redi did not think meat could make maggots.”
Mr. Francesco Redi was (a) a glass bottle (b) an airplane (c) a scientist.
“Willie will write the address on the envelope.”
Envelope means (a) a letter holder (b) donkey supplies.

-- To 14 and 15 year olds:

"Darwin’s well-known book was called _________________."
A. Top Banana in the Jungle
B. The Origin of Species
C. No one is Going to Make a Monkey Out of Me.
"Mary I, Queen of England (1555-1558), was called “__________________” because of her persecution of the Protestants."
A. Happy Mary
B. Bloody Mary
C. Crazy Elizabeth

Yep... top quality education that money's buying there.

The manipulation is.. "subtle". Let's try:

Is the Bible:
A. A manual on how to abuse children without consequence
B. A collection of books that form the basis for the christian faith
C. A deluxe edition of Grimms fairy tales

I must admire their tactics.

[Somerania]

Religion shouldn't be taught in school it is up to the parents to inform children on the beliefs their religion is based on and what beliefs other religions hold, a child over 18 years should be able to decide what religion he wants to practice

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Religion is a cuckoo in the nest of a family. It's trying to take the place of a parent, as moral role model to the child. Religion should be absent, for children. Not from the parent, not from the church, not from the state.

And if parents are moral turds and unfit to raise children? No church should try to fix that. No church has the power to fix that. By trying to fix it, all they do is salve the conscience of those bad parents. Step aside church, this is a matter for the state.

Churches are the worst possible moral guardians of children. When they respect the power of parents over children, and only bleat about what should be done instead, when the only power they have is of knowing the horror that happens in some families but they can't do anything else about it, what they should do is use their knowledge and call in the higher power. The state.

In short, they shouldn't forgive sins. They should call the cops.

[Rojava Free State]

Religion shouldn't be taught in school it is up to the parents to inform children on the beliefs their religion is based on and what beliefs other religions hold, a child over 18 years should be able to decide what religion he wants to practice

A child should be able to practice whatever religion they want if they believe it. My mother is catholic and my father is a Sephardi Jew, but when I came out as an atheist, they didn't begin calling on God above to do something. They just let me be atheist. I've been one since age 15.