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Should Religions Be Taught in Schools?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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How can religions evangelize in schools?

Student groups
88
22%
Classes
22
6%
Both
78
20%
Neither
207
52%
 
Total votes : 395

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Andaristiva
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Postby Andaristiva » Sun May 17, 2020 8:05 am

I went to a Church of England primary school which, despite being as religious as the local church (and taking students to the aforementioned church at the end of every term to attend a service the church organised specifically for the school), managed to provide such an impressive education that many Muslim parents sent their children there. So my opinion on religious education in schools is mostly "If parents and students of all religions accept the education, it's probably alright."

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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Sun May 17, 2020 9:21 am

Geneviev wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Offering neutrally-taught classes to learn about religion and religious history or philosophy or whatever is fine by me, but prioritizing one or evangelizing in public schools is totally unacceptable

The classes might only be about one religion, which is what I experienced. I don't know if that can really be neutral.

Katganistan wrote:Except ram it down other people's throats.

As long as it's just kids, I think it's still okay.
As long as they are in a club for it and interested, sure. But some kid telling others who want nothing to do with it that they are going to hell is a bully.
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:If schools are allowed to teach about religion, should they be able to be critical and point out the flimsy evidence behind some of the beliefs? The virgin birth, miracles, Muhammad flying to Jerusalem, mistranslations, things inserted into texts, later inventions etc.

I am sure that that would be considered problematic by all the dogmatists drooling to have their special dispensation to indoctrinate kids on the public's dime.
Region of Dwipantara wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
That's impossible - there are too many.
Hence why I suggested a minimum number like 5; where the 5 should be truly different religions, not merely different flavours of the same religion.

And it's probably should be covered as part of world history, tbh. Socio-economic conditions before its rise, development, relation with the state/empire that the respective religion is in, schisms, etc. But not too crazy on the detail, as school is not a history major; just like normal world history course.

Which is where it is already covered, at least in NY state.
Rojava Free State wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
How did they prevent complaints from parents btw ? Here a fieldtrip to a mosque caused parents to flip. For one, because the boys and girls were seperated. And shit really hit the fan when they heard a few had also been kneeling during a demonstration of an Islamic prayer; saying their kid had been tricked into paying tribute to a false god...


A christian calling Allah a false God is like one homeless man calling another one a broke ass motherfucker.

Pretty much.
Region of Dwipantara wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
It reminds me of how when my mom was in school, nordicism was still a bit of a thing and the teacher talked about how much more advanced Northern Europe was compared to Southern Europe. If we teach about religion, it must be in an unbiased manner and it must focus on the bad and good parts. That means:

•Focusing on Moses's alleged leadership in the Midianite genocide

•Talking about how Mohammed was said to have married a 9 year old

•Revealing the truth of king Solomon's harem.

•Telling the story of the time Mohammed kicked a bunch of Jews out of a city

Some will result in noticable impacts such as rioting, some not so much. King Solomon's harem? Succeeding caliphs party in wild harems on their vast palaces, yet this haven't stop those caliphate-supporters from stabbing my country's security minister. Also, we are already taught that the h*rny prophet Daud (or David) have 99 wives and wanted to marry another one before Allah had stepped in to prevent that.

But it can work. Open-minded, highly educated Indonesians generally has the 'disapprove, but let live' attitude towards LGBT. If nothing is done, then the throw-the-gays-off-buildings mosque imam near my dad's office and his insane sermons will rein unchallenged.

Not if they themselves are thrown off buildings. What's sauce for the goose....
Rojava Free State wrote:
Region of Dwipantara wrote:Some will result in noticable impacts such as rioting, some not so much. King Solomon's harem? Succeeding caliphs party in wild harems on their vast palaces, yet this haven't stop those caliphate-supporters from stabbing my country's security minister. Also, we are already taught that the h*rny prophet Daud (or David) have 99 wives and wanted to marry another one before Allah had stepped in to prevent that.

But it can work. Open-minded, highly educated Indonesians generally has the 'disapprove, but let live' attitude towards LGBT. If nothing is done, then the throw-the-gays-off-buildings mosque imam near my dad's office and his insane sermons will rein unchallenged.


Nothing should be off the table. We gotta discuss everything, like the time Jesus accidentally swallowed a puzzle piece and the man in the yellow hat had to take him to the doctor.

Curious, that.
Last edited by Katganistan on Sun May 17, 2020 9:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Sun May 17, 2020 10:05 am

Andaristiva wrote:I went to a Church of England primary school which, despite being as religious as the local church (and taking students to the aforementioned church at the end of every term to attend a service the church organised specifically for the school), managed to provide such an impressive education that many Muslim parents sent their children there. So my opinion on religious education in schools is mostly "If parents and students of all religions accept the education, it's probably alright."


Refresh my memory. Are the CoE schools public or private? In the US, we don’t have a Church of the US so the religious schools are private. I went to prison Catholic school for years. Good education and all the religious aspects.

The fight in the US is over Religious people wanted to teach their religion in the public schools and or getting federal/state funds in the religious schools.

We have had more then a few instances of the “faithful” getting punished for trying to indoctrinate.

The dogmatist salivates at the thought of impressionable children who already view the teacher as an authority figure being taught the true faith in a room they have to remain.

One thing to remember. In my catholic school days; the teachers were almost always Priests and Nuns. There were a couple instances of non-catholic institution people. Thinking about them? Two could remain neutral.

There is little or no neutrality to the dogmatics/non-religious institution people. You will mainly hear about the teachers religion and hear the faults of the others. I am sure there are people who can be neutral. Hardly enough of them exist at the primary level. In a college course of comparative religions; it isn’t as much as a requirement as people are old enough to hold differing views and argue. Children? Not so much.

Religion should be left to the family unit. Not public institutions.
Last edited by The Black Forrest on Sun May 17, 2020 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun May 17, 2020 10:07 am

The time I spent being taught about how to be a Christian was time almost entirely wasted. It didn't overly harm my education, obviously, as I am big braine very smort boi, but it was time that could have been better put towards any other educational goal. Especially all the bullshit we had to do for confession, communion, and confirmation.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 17, 2020 10:31 am

Ifreann wrote:The time I spent being taught about how to be a Christian was time almost entirely wasted. It didn't overly harm my education, obviously, as I am big braine very smort boi, but it was time that could have been better put towards any other educational goal. Especially all the bullshit we had to do for confession, communion, and confirmation.


Oh no, you went to a catholic school?
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 17, 2020 10:32 am

If we teach religion in schools, can we teach Satanism or Wicca too?
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Eudea
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Postby Eudea » Sun May 17, 2020 10:34 am

Rojava Free State wrote:If we teach religion in schools, can we teach Satanism or Wicca too?


But which brand of Satanism? I don’t disagree with the idea, but this whole denomination thing gets really wacky.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sun May 17, 2020 10:34 am

Rojava Free State wrote:If we teach religion in schools, can we teach Satanism or Wicca too?

"Alright children, after you've finished dissecting the frogs, please pass them off to Ms. Leibovitz, who will be using their entrails to draw pentagrams."
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 17, 2020 10:36 am

Neanderthaland wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:If we teach religion in schools, can we teach Satanism or Wicca too?

"Alright children, after you've finished dissecting the frogs, please pass them off to Ms. Leibovitz, who will be using their entrails to draw pentagrams."


We're pour oil on the floor in a pentagram formation, and light it on fire.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 17, 2020 10:37 am

Eudea wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:If we teach religion in schools, can we teach Satanism or Wicca too?


But which brand of Satanism? I don’t disagree with the idea, but this whole denomination thing gets really wacky.


The Church of Slayer denomination of Satanism. So loud aggressive thrash metal mixed with horrifying artwork and burning pentagrams.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Qabea
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Postby Qabea » Sun May 17, 2020 10:37 am

Geneviev wrote:Some schools, particularly in the United States in my experience, have groups dedicated to certain religions, in which teachers or other adults teach children about their religion. In my experience, that religion is Christianity, although there are probably other religions that do the same thing. In these groups, children are taught that a certain religion is true by an authority figure, although they are usually optional.

Other schools teach religion as an official subject. In Germany, it is a required subject in public schools and is usually provided by churches. In these situations, religion, which usually Christianity, although there are sometimes secular or Muslim alternatives, is taught in a classroom, but it is sometimes less biased and students can choose not to be in the class.

In both of these examples, churches use schools to evangelize to students. What do you think, NSG? Should both situations be allowed, or only one of them, or none? Is there another method that you would consider more appropriate?

In my opinion, both of these should be allowed because they do not necessarily favor one religion over another, so students can make a decision. Allowing students the opportunity to learn about a religion they already believe in is better than using things like this to evangelize to more, but doing so should be allowed to protect freedom of religion.

Yes, schools should be able to teach classes like IB World Religion which are supposed to teach students about most religions in a secular tone. However, there probably is line somewhere those classes can cross where it's no longer secular and informational that ought not to be crossed.

As for religious groups in school like the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and Muslim Student Association, they're kinda cringe and I see no reason for them.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sun May 17, 2020 10:38 am

Rojava Free State wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:"Alright children, after you've finished dissecting the frogs, please pass them off to Ms. Leibovitz, who will be using their entrails to draw pentagrams."


We're pour oil on the floor in a pentagram formation, and light it on fire.

"Frankly, at this point the dark arts are our only hope of remaining accredited."
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun May 17, 2020 10:38 am

Eudea wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:If we teach religion in schools, can we teach Satanism or Wicca too?


But which brand of Satanism? I don’t disagree with the idea, but this whole denomination thing gets really wacky.


Well, that's the same problem with every religion, isn't it ? So many flavours, so little time.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun May 17, 2020 10:39 am

Neanderthaland wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
We're pour oil on the floor in a pentagram formation, and light it on fire.

"Frankly, at this point the dark arts are our only hope of remaining accredited."

Historically, the teachers position in the defence against the dark arts class has seldomn been filled by a qualified competent teacher.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sun May 17, 2020 11:20 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Eudea wrote:
But which brand of Satanism? I don’t disagree with the idea, but this whole denomination thing gets really wacky.


Well, that's the same problem with every religion, isn't it ? So many flavours, so little time.


There should be an online "compass" for this. Answer 50 questions and every time it recommends you become an Atheist.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun May 17, 2020 11:22 am

Rojava Free State wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The time I spent being taught about how to be a Christian was time almost entirely wasted. It didn't overly harm my education, obviously, as I am big braine very smort boi, but it was time that could have been better put towards any other educational goal. Especially all the bullshit we had to do for confession, communion, and confirmation.


Oh no, you went to a catholic school?

Almost every school in Ireland is a Catholic school.


The Alma Mater wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:"Frankly, at this point the dark arts are our only hope of remaining accredited."

Historically, the teachers position in the defence against the dark arts class has seldomn been filled by a qualified competent teacher.

Only in British public schools.
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I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Eudea
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Postby Eudea » Sun May 17, 2020 11:25 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:Historically, the teachers position in the defence against the dark arts class has seldomn been filled by a qualified competent teacher.

Only in British public schools.


Can confirm, mine was shite.
Free State of Eudea
Kišāre Azādye Yūdyāstān

| The Nation | Decorated British veterans set to train new Eudean peacekeeping forces. // New railway line to be built, connecting more inland cities with fast, reliable land travel. // 3 American Christian missionaries forcibly expelled following violent encounter in rural village.

The horse-riding, sabre-wielding and formerly semi-nomadic spawn of Greeks, Iranians, Turks, Mongols and Han.

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Sun May 17, 2020 11:33 am

Katganistan wrote:
Geneviev wrote:The classes might only be about one religion, which is what I experienced. I don't know if that can really be neutral.


As long as it's just kids, I think it's still okay.
As long as they are in a club for it and interested, sure. But some kid telling others who want nothing to do with it that they are going to hell is a bully.

No one will listen if they're not interested, though. That kid is more likely to be bullied.

Qabea wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Some schools, particularly in the United States in my experience, have groups dedicated to certain religions, in which teachers or other adults teach children about their religion. In my experience, that religion is Christianity, although there are probably other religions that do the same thing. In these groups, children are taught that a certain religion is true by an authority figure, although they are usually optional.

Other schools teach religion as an official subject. In Germany, it is a required subject in public schools and is usually provided by churches. In these situations, religion, which usually Christianity, although there are sometimes secular or Muslim alternatives, is taught in a classroom, but it is sometimes less biased and students can choose not to be in the class.

In both of these examples, churches use schools to evangelize to students. What do you think, NSG? Should both situations be allowed, or only one of them, or none? Is there another method that you would consider more appropriate?

In my opinion, both of these should be allowed because they do not necessarily favor one religion over another, so students can make a decision. Allowing students the opportunity to learn about a religion they already believe in is better than using things like this to evangelize to more, but doing so should be allowed to protect freedom of religion.

Yes, schools should be able to teach classes like IB World Religion which are supposed to teach students about most religions in a secular tone. However, there probably is line somewhere those classes can cross where it's no longer secular and informational that ought not to be crossed.

As for religious groups in school like the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and Muslim Student Association, they're kinda cringe and I see no reason for them.

IB, hm? Sadly, my school doesn't have that class because it's SL only, so I don't know what it's like.

So do you think those groups shouldn't be allowed?
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sun May 17, 2020 11:36 am

Ifreann wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Oh no, you went to a catholic school?

Almost every school in Ireland is a Catholic school.


There's actually not too bad here. Unlike other private schools they'll take most students (eg poor behavior, disabilities, not Catholic) and still get results comparable or better than public schools. The posh private schools get better results because (a) they have more money, and (b) they screen out any students who will be difficult to educate.

It's a bit controversial that they (like other private schools) get government funding. But I'd still tolerate them if we could just extinguish the blight which is for-profit private schooling.
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Swindenland
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Postby Swindenland » Sun May 17, 2020 11:40 am

Religion should not be taught in any kind of school nor be promoted in any educational institution. A truly secular country cannot tolerate religious interference in education. Religion is like a hobby with false information. Children, if they consent, can learn about their religion after school and in their private lives, I have no problem with that. We don't have schools run by the flat-earth cult for a reason.
Last edited by Swindenland on Sun May 17, 2020 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Sun May 17, 2020 11:44 am

Swindenland wrote:Religion should not be taught in any kind of school nor be promoted in any educational institution. A truly secular country cannot tolerate religious interference in education. Religion is like a hobby with false information. Children, if they consent, can learn about their religion after school and in their private lives, I have no problem with that. We don't have schools run by the flat-earth cult for a reason.


Hmmm? “Religion is like a hobby with false information.”

What is different between you and those who want you to follow the religion?

Children for the most part can’t give informed consent. This is why there are age limits on contracts.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sun May 17, 2020 11:51 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Swindenland wrote:Religion should not be taught in any kind of school nor be promoted in any educational institution. A truly secular country cannot tolerate religious interference in education. Religion is like a hobby with false information. Children, if they consent, can learn about their religion after school and in their private lives, I have no problem with that. We don't have schools run by the flat-earth cult for a reason.


Hmmm? “Religion is like a hobby with false information.”

What is different between you and those who want you to follow the religion?

Children for the most part can’t give informed consent. This is why there are age limits on contracts.


Most religions try to answer the question "what happens to me after I die". And children do often wonder that.

I'm 56 fucking years old, and I still haven't learned not to answer that question. When there's no way of knowing, the question should be laughed off. Giving a child an answer (which you believe only by "faith") is not education.

I could probably make a list of such "big" questions that religions have bad answers to. But it's not necessary, that one alone is enough to establish that religion should not be taught as fact, in school.
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Purple Rats
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Postby Purple Rats » Sun May 17, 2020 12:26 pm

I think I learned about religions (mostly christian tho, unfortunately) in school, before age of 15. It was basic stuff, what they believe. Not in "this is right", but what other people do believe. Being nonreligious is waaaay higher % than any religion in our country, that includes me, but I think it's still interesting and important to teach about religion.

I would also think it would be important to teach about different political system, no matter what system your country has.

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Qabea
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Postby Qabea » Sun May 17, 2020 12:29 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Katganistan wrote: As long as they are in a club for it and interested, sure. But some kid telling others who want nothing to do with it that they are going to hell is a bully.

No one will listen if they're not interested, though. That kid is more likely to be bullied.

Qabea wrote:Yes, schools should be able to teach classes like IB World Religion which are supposed to teach students about most religions in a secular tone. However, there probably is line somewhere those classes can cross where it's no longer secular and informational that ought not to be crossed.

As for religious groups in school like the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and Muslim Student Association, they're kinda cringe and I see no reason for them.

IB, hm? Sadly, my school doesn't have that class because it's SL only, so I don't know what it's like.

So do you think those groups shouldn't be allowed?

It's not that I don't think they should be allowed, it's just that I'm tired of some evangelicals trying to preach to me despite my not asking.
Last edited by Qabea on Sun May 17, 2020 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
REPUBLIC of QABEA
A well developed and cultured MT francophone republic spanning the Fertile Crescent.
Nationalist & Progressive Republican from the Deep South

Pronouns: He/Him

Pro: Cultural nationalism, Free college, Free speech, GMO labeling, Gun rights, Labor, Medical marijuana, Populism, Protectionism, Secularism, Universal basic income, Universal healthcare
Neutral: Abortion rights, Green politics, LGBTQ+ rights, Religious freedom
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Kernen
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6388
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Sun May 17, 2020 1:05 pm

Qabea wrote:
Geneviev wrote:No one will listen if they're not interested, though. That kid is more likely to be bullied.


IB, hm? Sadly, my school doesn't have that class because it's SL only, so I don't know what it's like.

So do you think those groups shouldn't be allowed?

It's not that I don't think they should be allowed, it's just that I'm tired of some evangelicals trying to preach to me despite my not asking.

Every time that occurred as a lad, it made me less and less receptive to the message.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

Get abortions, do drugs, own guns, but never misstate legal procedure.

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