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by Andaristiva » Sun May 17, 2020 8:05 am
by Katganistan » Sun May 17, 2020 9:21 am
As long as they are in a club for it and interested, sure. But some kid telling others who want nothing to do with it that they are going to hell is a bully.Geneviev wrote:Senkaku wrote:Offering neutrally-taught classes to learn about religion and religious history or philosophy or whatever is fine by me, but prioritizing one or evangelizing in public schools is totally unacceptable
The classes might only be about one religion, which is what I experienced. I don't know if that can really be neutral.Katganistan wrote:Except ram it down other people's throats.
As long as it's just kids, I think it's still okay.
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:If schools are allowed to teach about religion, should they be able to be critical and point out the flimsy evidence behind some of the beliefs? The virgin birth, miracles, Muhammad flying to Jerusalem, mistranslations, things inserted into texts, later inventions etc.
Region of Dwipantara wrote:The Alma Mater wrote:
That's impossible - there are too many.
Hence why I suggested a minimum number like 5; where the 5 should be truly different religions, not merely different flavours of the same religion.
And it's probably should be covered as part of world history, tbh. Socio-economic conditions before its rise, development, relation with the state/empire that the respective religion is in, schisms, etc. But not too crazy on the detail, as school is not a history major; just like normal world history course.
Rojava Free State wrote:The Alma Mater wrote:
How did they prevent complaints from parents btw ? Here a fieldtrip to a mosque caused parents to flip. For one, because the boys and girls were seperated. And shit really hit the fan when they heard a few had also been kneeling during a demonstration of an Islamic prayer; saying their kid had been tricked into paying tribute to a false god...
A christian calling Allah a false God is like one homeless man calling another one a broke ass motherfucker.
Region of Dwipantara wrote:Rojava Free State wrote:
It reminds me of how when my mom was in school, nordicism was still a bit of a thing and the teacher talked about how much more advanced Northern Europe was compared to Southern Europe. If we teach about religion, it must be in an unbiased manner and it must focus on the bad and good parts. That means:
•Focusing on Moses's alleged leadership in the Midianite genocide
•Talking about how Mohammed was said to have married a 9 year old
•Revealing the truth of king Solomon's harem.
•Telling the story of the time Mohammed kicked a bunch of Jews out of a city
Some will result in noticable impactssuch as rioting, some not so much. King Solomon's harem? Succeeding caliphs party in wild harems on their vast palaces, yet this haven't stop those caliphate-supporters from stabbing my country's security minister. Also, we are already taught that the h*rny prophet Daud (or David) have 99 wives and wanted to marry another one before Allah had stepped in to prevent that.
But it can work. Open-minded, highly educated Indonesians generally has the 'disapprove, but let live' attitude towards LGBT. If nothing is done, then the throw-the-gays-off-buildings mosque imam near my dad's office and his insane sermons will rein unchallenged.
Rojava Free State wrote:Region of Dwipantara wrote:Some will result in noticable impactssuch as rioting, some not so much. King Solomon's harem? Succeeding caliphs party in wild harems on their vast palaces, yet this haven't stop those caliphate-supporters from stabbing my country's security minister. Also, we are already taught that the h*rny prophet Daud (or David) have 99 wives and wanted to marry another one before Allah had stepped in to prevent that.
But it can work. Open-minded, highly educated Indonesians generally has the 'disapprove, but let live' attitude towards LGBT. If nothing is done, then the throw-the-gays-off-buildings mosque imam near my dad's office and his insane sermons will rein unchallenged.
Nothing should be off the table. We gotta discuss everything, like the time Jesus accidentally swallowed a puzzle piece and the man in the yellow hat had to take him to the doctor.
by The Black Forrest » Sun May 17, 2020 10:05 am
Andaristiva wrote:I went to a Church of England primary school which, despite being as religious as the local church (and taking students to the aforementioned church at the end of every term to attend a service the church organised specifically for the school), managed to provide such an impressive education that many Muslim parents sent their children there. So my opinion on religious education in schools is mostly "If parents and students of all religions accept the education, it's probably alright."
by Ifreann » Sun May 17, 2020 10:07 am
by Rojava Free State » Sun May 17, 2020 10:31 am
Ifreann wrote:The time I spent being taught about how to be a Christian was time almost entirely wasted. It didn't overly harm my education,obviously, as I am big braine very smort boi,but it was time that could have been better put towards any other educational goal. Especially all the bullshit we had to do for confession, communion, and confirmation.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by Rojava Free State » Sun May 17, 2020 10:32 am
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by Eudea » Sun May 17, 2020 10:34 am
Rojava Free State wrote:If we teach religion in schools, can we teach Satanism or Wicca too?
The Nation • Civil Protection Drugs and Illegal Substances officers publicly congratulated on major drug bust // Eudean black tea named the national hot drink
by Neanderthaland » Sun May 17, 2020 10:34 am
Rojava Free State wrote:If we teach religion in schools, can we teach Satanism or Wicca too?
by Rojava Free State » Sun May 17, 2020 10:36 am
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by Rojava Free State » Sun May 17, 2020 10:37 am
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by Qabea » Sun May 17, 2020 10:37 am
Geneviev wrote:Some schools, particularly in the United States in my experience, have groups dedicated to certain religions, in which teachers or other adults teach children about their religion. In my experience, that religion is Christianity, although there are probably other religions that do the same thing. In these groups, children are taught that a certain religion is true by an authority figure, although they are usually optional.
Other schools teach religion as an official subject. In Germany, it is a required subject in public schools and is usually provided by churches. In these situations, religion, which usually Christianity, although there are sometimes secular or Muslim alternatives, is taught in a classroom, but it is sometimes less biased and students can choose not to be in the class.
In both of these examples, churches use schools to evangelize to students. What do you think, NSG? Should both situations be allowed, or only one of them, or none? Is there another method that you would consider more appropriate?
In my opinion, both of these should be allowed because they do not necessarily favor one religion over another, so students can make a decision. Allowing students the opportunity to learn about a religion they already believe in is better than using things like this to evangelize to more, but doing so should be allowed to protect freedom of religion.
REPUBLIC of QABEA
A well developed and cultured MT francophone republic spanning the Fertile Crescent.
Nationalist & Progressive Republican from the Deep South
Pronouns: He/Him
Pro: Cultural nationalism, Free college, Free speech, GMO labeling, Gun rights, Labor, Medical marijuana, Populism, Protectionism, Secularism, Universal basic income, Universal healthcare
Neutral: Abortion rights, Green politics, LGBTQ+ rights, Religious freedom
Anti: Affirmative action, Big corporations, Globalism, Immigration, Imperialism, Interventionism, Islamic extremism, Neoconservatism, Neoliberalism, Recreational marijuana, Zionism
by Neanderthaland » Sun May 17, 2020 10:38 am
by The Alma Mater » Sun May 17, 2020 10:38 am
by The Alma Mater » Sun May 17, 2020 10:39 am
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Sun May 17, 2020 11:20 am
by Ifreann » Sun May 17, 2020 11:22 am
Rojava Free State wrote:Ifreann wrote:The time I spent being taught about how to be a Christian was time almost entirely wasted. It didn't overly harm my education,obviously, as I am big braine very smort boi,but it was time that could have been better put towards any other educational goal. Especially all the bullshit we had to do for confession, communion, and confirmation.
Oh no, you went to a catholic school?
by Eudea » Sun May 17, 2020 11:25 am
The Nation • Civil Protection Drugs and Illegal Substances officers publicly congratulated on major drug bust // Eudean black tea named the national hot drink
by Geneviev » Sun May 17, 2020 11:33 am
Katganistan wrote:As long as they are in a club for it and interested, sure. But some kid telling others who want nothing to do with it that they are going to hell is a bully.Geneviev wrote:The classes might only be about one religion, which is what I experienced. I don't know if that can really be neutral.
As long as it's just kids, I think it's still okay.
Qabea wrote:Geneviev wrote:Some schools, particularly in the United States in my experience, have groups dedicated to certain religions, in which teachers or other adults teach children about their religion. In my experience, that religion is Christianity, although there are probably other religions that do the same thing. In these groups, children are taught that a certain religion is true by an authority figure, although they are usually optional.
Other schools teach religion as an official subject. In Germany, it is a required subject in public schools and is usually provided by churches. In these situations, religion, which usually Christianity, although there are sometimes secular or Muslim alternatives, is taught in a classroom, but it is sometimes less biased and students can choose not to be in the class.
In both of these examples, churches use schools to evangelize to students. What do you think, NSG? Should both situations be allowed, or only one of them, or none? Is there another method that you would consider more appropriate?
In my opinion, both of these should be allowed because they do not necessarily favor one religion over another, so students can make a decision. Allowing students the opportunity to learn about a religion they already believe in is better than using things like this to evangelize to more, but doing so should be allowed to protect freedom of religion.
Yes, schools should be able to teach classes like IB World Religion which are supposed to teach students about most religions in a secular tone. However, there probably is line somewhere those classes can cross where it's no longer secular and informational that ought not to be crossed.
As for religious groups in school like the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and Muslim Student Association, they're kinda cringe and I see no reason for them.
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Sun May 17, 2020 11:36 am
by Swindenland » Sun May 17, 2020 11:40 am
by The Black Forrest » Sun May 17, 2020 11:44 am
Swindenland wrote:Religion should not be taught in any kind of school nor be promoted in any educational institution. A truly secular country cannot tolerate religious interference in education. Religion is like a hobby with false information. Children, if they consent, can learn about their religion after school and in their private lives, I have no problem with that. We don't have schools run by the flat-earth cult for a reason.
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Sun May 17, 2020 11:51 am
The Black Forrest wrote:Swindenland wrote:Religion should not be taught in any kind of school nor be promoted in any educational institution. A truly secular country cannot tolerate religious interference in education. Religion is like a hobby with false information. Children, if they consent, can learn about their religion after school and in their private lives, I have no problem with that. We don't have schools run by the flat-earth cult for a reason.
Hmmm? “Religion is like a hobby with false information.”
What is different between you and those who want you to follow the religion?
Children for the most part can’t give informed consent. This is why there are age limits on contracts.
by Purple Rats » Sun May 17, 2020 12:26 pm
by Qabea » Sun May 17, 2020 12:29 pm
Geneviev wrote:Katganistan wrote: As long as they are in a club for it and interested, sure. But some kid telling others who want nothing to do with it that they are going to hell is a bully.
No one will listen if they're not interested, though. That kid is more likely to be bullied.Qabea wrote:Yes, schools should be able to teach classes like IB World Religion which are supposed to teach students about most religions in a secular tone. However, there probably is line somewhere those classes can cross where it's no longer secular and informational that ought not to be crossed.
As for religious groups in school like the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and Muslim Student Association, they're kinda cringe and I see no reason for them.
IB, hm? Sadly, my school doesn't have that class because it's SL only, so I don't know what it's like.
So do you think those groups shouldn't be allowed?
REPUBLIC of QABEA
A well developed and cultured MT francophone republic spanning the Fertile Crescent.
Nationalist & Progressive Republican from the Deep South
Pronouns: He/Him
Pro: Cultural nationalism, Free college, Free speech, GMO labeling, Gun rights, Labor, Medical marijuana, Populism, Protectionism, Secularism, Universal basic income, Universal healthcare
Neutral: Abortion rights, Green politics, LGBTQ+ rights, Religious freedom
Anti: Affirmative action, Big corporations, Globalism, Immigration, Imperialism, Interventionism, Islamic extremism, Neoconservatism, Neoliberalism, Recreational marijuana, Zionism
by Kernen » Sun May 17, 2020 1:05 pm
Qabea wrote:Geneviev wrote:No one will listen if they're not interested, though. That kid is more likely to be bullied.
IB, hm? Sadly, my school doesn't have that class because it's SL only, so I don't know what it's like.
So do you think those groups shouldn't be allowed?
It's not that I don't think they should be allowed, it's just that I'm tired of some evangelicals trying to preach to me despite my not asking.
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